Smart Fortwo

dennismau

It is a 15 minute job to change your oil in a Smart Car! Buy a filter from the dealer and 4 qt's of Mobil 1 Synthetic oil 0-40w(Auto Parts Store,Checkers,etc.).(The car holds 3 1/2 qt's). The filter and oil drain plug are underneath the engine on the right back side of the car. You do not need to lift the car in any way. The drain plug is BIG requiring a 24 mm socket(You can't miss it!). If you only have a 3/8" drive socket wrench you will have to buy a 3/8" to 1/2" adapter because this big 24 mm socket is only available in 1/2"drive. There is a copper drain plug washer that can be re used if you don't over torque when installing it or you can buy a new one at the dealer for a couple bucks.
Now you have everything you need to change the oil! Put a little drain pan under the drain plug and drain the oil then using a filter wrench(I used one that tightens as you turn it) loosen the filter and install the new one putting a little oil on the o-ring seal and hand tighten securely. Remove the carpet and engine cover on your Smart Car on put in the required 3 1/2 quarts of Mobil 1 Synthetic 0-40 w oil and your done. Start the car and make sure you have no leaks. I have changed oil in different cars in my day but I must say this is one of the easiest cars to change oil in have ever seen! It is may be a 15 minute job.

Dennis

mmm1

Thanks much Dennismau for the detailed explanation. Did you get this info about Mobil 1 out of the owner's manual or is Mobil 1 your personal preference? Since the oil only has to be changed every 10.000 miles I'm okay with the Mobil 1 but just curious about whether or not it is required. I quickly flipped through the owner's manual while at the dealership but don't recall seeing much on owner maintenance. I'm sure that Smart wants customers to come back to the dealership for oil changes and routine maintenance but there is no way I'm going to do this unless it is something that simply cannot be done by someone with above average mechanical skills. Not atl $100 per hour.

plekto

The first couple of oil changes actually should be plain natural oil to help get the tiny pieces of grit and gunk out of the engine. Change at 50 miles and 500 miles, then normally after that with whatever you want to use.

(synthetic is too "slippery" and won't adequately clean the fine grit and gunk out)

[Deleted User]

One does not have to do those early oil changes anymore. In fact, VW insists that you do not. The first oil change should go the length recommended with no shortening. They believe this contributes to better engine break-in, seating and longevity. You have to remember the tolerances in a modern engine are extremely tight...the fine metal, grit and gunk of older engines has been eliminated.

dmathews3

True and some manufacturers put in a special oil or additives just to help the break in process.

plekto

But we're talking about the FourTwo here. As far as I know, they're giving us a normal 3 cylinder engine and pushing us out on the road.(ie - the engine appears to be whatever they could stuff into it, technology-wise and not something made specifically by Mercedes) Given how easy the thing seems to be to change oil, changing it an extra time or two at the beginning seems to be a good idea.

[Deleted User]

But not if you are not supposed to. All engines are different these days than from back when 3K oil changes were recommended. If the engine breaks in better with what the manufacturer installs the first time, why would you dump that and risk things not seating right? Not to mention the unnecessary waste of the oil.

dmathews3

Some people still think this is 1960 and don't want to move up into the current times. AM and 8 tracks are dead and so is changing oil at 50 miles.

plekto

The thing is, that with new engines, 75% of seating the rings happens in the first 50 miles. After that, the bits that were taken off - that fine grained metal dust - is floating around in the oil causing wear to the other parts. This is as you might imagine, not a very good thing.

Technically you don't need to change the oil. You need to change the *filter* so that it isn't half-clogged with these particles. And yes, the oil that comes out from the first change usually has grit in it that you can actually feel if you rub it between your fingers.

[Deleted User]

One last time...that used to be true. It ain't anymore. If you want to change your oil at 50 mi, be my guest. But I will do what is recommended to take care of and extend the life of my new engine longest. If I am supposed to leave in the factory oil mix for x miles, there is an engineering reason for it. "It stands to reason" and other arguments don't apply. If you do not know why there are now recommendations against early oil changes, then why not find out?.

mmm1

I would still appreciate knowing if Mobil 1 is recommended by the manufacturer or if it is a personal preference. Thanks.

dennismau

I always change the oil in my new cars at 1000 K miles for the reason of metal bits and particles floating around in the oil. I changed the oil in my new Smart Car at 1200 miles and it was full of fine metal particles. Now you can not tell me if you leave those in the engine for 10 K miles that they are not going to damage the engine. I say change that new car oil at 1 K miles and be safe!

Dennis

scottl

Mobil 1 is 'recommended' by smart per this press release:
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS130408+07-Apr-2008+BW20080407

If you read it carefully, the reality is that Mobil 1 may or may not be what the factory puts in the car. However, synthetic is definitely recommended. The smart takes only 3.5 quarts for an oil and filter change, and the recommended interval is 10,000 miles. I would never let MY car go 10,000 miles, but maybe you would.

The engine is the 2008 smart is made by Mitsubishi. The filter is a Mitsubishi filter. smart puts their name on it and charges over $20 for it. Yeah, right. There are many alternatives. None cost over $8.

[Deleted User]

Those "fine metal particles" may be the very thing that helps seat the seals and valves best, for all you know. If what you say was true, then mechanics and engineers would be recommending that new high tolerance engines have a change at 1,000 mi. They don't. Some manufacturers insist that you do NOT remove the additives put in at the factory for 10,000 mi. I realize no one can apparently tell you anything, but you could find out for yourself, if you put a little effort into reading the research.

dennismau

I really don't think fine metal particles are going to seal your valves. They are going to scratch the internal components of your engine because they are going to move around. Just thought I would give my observation when I changed my oil on my Smart Car. I also asked the Dealer at Smart in Denver Colorado and they said it definitely wouldn't hurt to change your oil at1000 miles. I guess it'up to each individual person what they want to do. But let me tell you the oil looked bad at 1000 miles. Now with that Mobil1 0-40W in their it runs smoother and purrs like a kitten. I think you are trying to avoid changing the oil by convincing your self you don't need to. But in the back of your mind you know you really should. Just go get the oil and change it! You will sleep better tonite!

Dennis

mmm1

Thanks Scottl for the info on Mobil 1 and the link. There is no doubt in my mind what my first oil change interval will be.

dean407

I saw one of your cars in person a few weeks ago. Then- oddly another at the same intersection 2 weeks later. It got me curious- so I searched this vehicle. I was very surprised on the MPG. It's little better than my Toyota Corolla- just reverse the city/hwy mileage.

Why would you get the SmartCar over a Toyota Corolla, Prius, Civic Hybrid/Regular Civic, or MINI?

I expected the vehicle to get at least 50MPG- as small as it is.

IIf you folks run out of gas can you pick it up and roll it backwards a few times to let it go forward again?

-Dean

scottl

The smart gets the best gas mileage of any gasoline powered non-hybrid. The 2008 smart is 33/41, the Corolla is 26/35 with the auto. So the smart is 25% better in the city and 18% better on the highway than the Corolla. I don't think 25% is 'little' better, but you may differ. Reports are that 45-50mpg is easy to attain with a smart if you drive it properly.

the smart is much less expensive than Prius, Civic Hybrid, or Mini. Comparably equipped, it is less expensive than Civc and Corolla, although the gap is a little smaller.

One would get a smart because it is less expensive, and gets better mileage. Also, it has side airbags, stability control, traction control and anti lock brakes all standard. The Passion model which is under $15K has climate control A/C, power windows, locks, heated power mirrors, CD with MP3 and Ipod jack, alloy wheels, a totally see through polycarbonate roof, and an automatic transmission than can be shifted manually with paddles on the steering wheel or with the floor shifter. The body panels are plastic, and all the panels can be swapped in an hour for about $900. If you have black and want red, you just swap panels. Options include heated leather seats, rain sensing windshield, 6 disk changer with sub, etc.

If you commute alone or with one other person into a tight urban area, the smart can't be beat. It is a niche car, not a general purpose car.

There is a 12-18 month waiting list for the smart. You can have a wide choice of Corollas at any Toyota dealer.

plekto

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

A great page all about oil.

Of note is the section down at the bottom where it talks about magnetized oil traps and larger filters.

"The small oil filters fitted to engines these days run with quite a high back pressure, and the bypass valve trips at about 3500rpm. That means that your oil is not being filtered when the engine is spinning faster than 3500rpm. As the oil filter does its job and starts to clog up, that rpm value can be lower."

Since the tiny filter and engine in the Smart runs at 3500rpm a lot of the time, changing the oil early is a good idea. Metal bits in an engine of any kind are "A Bad Thing" and cause excessive wear on everything that they touch. While the original oil may physically last 10K or more itself, the engine will be full of grit and grime long before then.

http://www.noria.com/learning_center/category_article.asp?articleid=89&relatedbo- okgroup=ContaminationControl
Grit of any kind - be it sand or metal powder and bits drastically hurts the longevity of engines, especially the smaller they are. That's why it's hard to find good working motorcycle engines past 10-20K miles. The Smart's engine is on the very bottom end of the scale. 700-1000CC engines are already at numerous disadvantages to begin with.

DC isn't using special oil or pretty much anything. What you're getting here is the same engine that Mitsubishi sells in their second smallest cars in Japan - dropped in and sent on its way. As such, it needs old-school methods to combat early wear/changing oil.

Go ahead - the oil change is simple. Change the oil at any time under 1K on a Smart. Rub the oil between your fingers and around the bottom of the collection pan. It's eye-opening.

litardofl

Greetings - I am just beginning to research the SmartCar and I am interested in learning what octane gas the car requires. Is it strictly premium? At today's premium prices I am wondering if the savings are a wash once you account for the extra cost for premium. What are your thoughts. I would really love to buy this car, but the expense of premium gas has me skeptical at this time.

snakeweasel

What are your thoughts.

Well apparently you can run lower octane in the engine with a very slight drop in MPG. But look at it this way, around here premium has always been 20 cents more than regular. At todays prices that means that premium is less than 5% more than regular. With the Smart being rated at 33 city and 41 highway with premium that would equate to 31.5 city and 39.1 highway for regular. So the slight increase in the price of premium will not wash out the extra mileage the car gets.

It might be a wash at a dollar a gallon but not at current and any foreseeable price.

mmm1

For engineer Al. I am awaiting my smart which I should get in one or two months. While waiting have been reviewing posts on this forum. I believe many of us who have a reasonable amount of mechanical skill and have worked on many different cars over the years will want to do as much of our own work on the smart as possible. Any additional comments you have on the car will be very much appreciated--especially in view of the lack of an owner's manual. I'm definitely going to buy the car when my number comes up on the Orphan list but it really p----s me off that a company would sell a car with such a terrible warranty and no availability of a manual. Thanks much.

engineer al

The car most definetly came with an owners manual, there just isn't an overhaul/service manual per se. The owners manual is actually very good in my opinion, as far as manuals go, lots of info on how to do most minor maintenance yourself. The CD I bought was on fleabay, and has all of that info plus a little more the author gleaned from various websites etc. Of note, the UK site evilution is one of the better ones for general smart info, just be advised that it is geared toward the european models and as such is of limited usefulness to the N.A. models especially the '08 gassers. I would imagine that if the car does well in the states, eventually one of the 3rd party publishers (Haynes, Clymer) will produce a more comprehensive book on them, with any luck it'll cover the Canadian diesels as well. With regard to mmm1's comment about the lack of a service manual available from the company, they don't want you to fix it, they want you to pay them $150/hr to fix it.

Thus far, the only issue that has cropped up on my '06, is that I recently discovered that my A/C dropped the gas. Guess I didn't cycle it often enough over the winter, and luckily our summer weather has yet to materialize, so I am not that bent. I intend to recharge it sometime in the next week or two...

phartney

Last I looked a yea ago, there was a site to go in to order a Smart and pay a $99.00 deposit. Has anything changed and, can anyone help in cutting time out or simply respond to what to order. I prefer the top model with all options. Any thoughts out there? Pete

dennismau

Screw the ordering stuff! Just go to your nearest Smart Dealer and tell them you want an orphan. Put your name on the list for the hell of it but that doesn't do much good. Call your dealer every day and see if they have any recent orphans. If they do get your butt down there and prepare to spend about 2K over list for ADM(Front Bra, Protection Package, Upgraded Radio, Tire Protection Package, Floor Mats Extended Warranty,etc.) and buy it now! Do not hesitate. Those who snooze lose! They are jacking up the price on all the fuel efficient cars with ADM. I was at the Honda dealer and they had 6K in [non-permissible content removed] tacked onto the sticker price of a Civic. Even with the ADM you could still sell it on E-bay and make a profit. They are selling for 4 to 6K over list on E-bay so don't worry about it.

Dennis

scottl

Rumor has it that some dealers do actually sell orphans at MSRP without extras. They seem to be in the center of the country through. With the cost of travel and shipping these days, getting a car from another part of the country has become much more expensive.

Prices on eBay are going up. When the smart first hit the shores five months ago, before gas spiked and awareness of the car was raised, you could snag a Passion for $15-16K or about what sticker + destination + fees was. Now they are $18-19K. There have been a couple with thousands of miles on the odo go for over MSRP. I think they are going to be like the Prius/Insight/Civic Hybid, where if you can get your hands on one, the depreciation is very low. I read a post from a guy the other day who sold a Honda Insight with 50K miles on it for more than he paid for it new.

dennismau

All the fuel efficient cars are in demand and our commanding strong prices. The gas hogs are dropping in value faster than the stock market. When you can save $200 to $500 per month on your gas bill what's a few more thousand dollars in purchase price. I do not worry about the snow in my Smart Car because I am going to buy an H1 Hummer when they drop in price to about 5K and just in park it on the street and just use it when there is a blizzard out here!

sbonhartwell

I don't think ordering from far away is more expensive. In fact, it's much like buying something else over the Internet vs purchasing it locally--cheaper price, no sales tax, etc.I contacted over a hundred Toyota Dealers and told each of them what I would pay and that I would arrive with cashiers check in hand for that amount. I got several replies that they would meet my price. I saved way more than if I had purchased from my local dealer.

Sam in Anderson, SC

phartney

Thanks Dennis for the reply. I did call two local deals. They both told me that they have a "secondary" waiting list in place for when the origonal party that ordered the car backs out, the "secondary" local waiting list is where they go to. One had 100 on tht list! he said it was just as easy to order the car from the web site. I did put up a $100 deposit to get on the other deal's Secondary waiting list. I'll call a few others I guess.

phartney

Reading up on what's new over seas as it relates to the Smart car, I see they now have developed a diesel version that gets up to 80 MPG ????? If this is true as the site stated, when will this new option show up in the USA? Has anyone ever approached Smart to inquire?

scottl

The prior model smart, the 450, had diesels in Europe and Canada. The current diesel is Europe only. As for when they might import the diesel into the US, the answer is "someday". There are no firm plans. There are emission issues.

Another problem right now is that the factory can't build any more cars. The one and only smart factory is actually in France, even though smart is a Daimler vehicle. France has very restrictive labor laws, and it is not easy to add extra shifts of workers. Since there are only 25-30,000 allotted to the US, and the waiting list of ordered cars is well over a year, I doubt they will consider importing the diesel for a couple of years until they get the dealerships sorted out and figure out how to squeeze more vehicles out of the factory. Why bother at this point?

There is also a version that shuts off the engine at stoplights and starts it when you step on the gas. We can't get that one, either.

There is also an all electric smart undergoing testing in the UK. It is supposed to be available in 2010, but the details are sketchy right now.

mmm1

Thanks for the info. I found a web site that offers a service manual for $95 and it can be purchased from Dan E Graves @hotmail.com. He lists lots of glowing endorsements and claims that he compiled the info from mostly European sources. Would this be the manual that you bought?

mmm1

In my previous response and question to you I should have said that the service manual that I asked you about is also on CD.

priggly

The "smart" scores at the very bottom of the informedforlife.org safety rankings with a deplorable score of 162.

http://www.informedforlife.org/demos/FCKeditor/UserFiles/File/1MasterSCOREr.pdf

It is a deathtrap on wheels. You can't repeal the laws of physics with clever merchandising.

Govern yourselves accordingly.

scwmcan

Obviously you didn't look closer, it seems most of the large to medium pickups and SUV's scored much worse that the smart, what deathtraps those must be, just because you don't like it don't try to scare people away from trying it. Also from the data it would seem the largest strike against the smart (I didn't look through the whole list to find it, very poorly laid out site BTW) would be that it weighs less than other cars, it's safety ratings are as good as most other cars (can't say in it's size class because there really aren't any others). In any case stop trying to use scare tactics. It is NOT the most dangerous vehicule on the road even by your links standards (and who are these people anyway and what makes their opinion mean anything?)
Also you need to check a little closer yourself, the smart scored 131 mostly due to it's weight being factored into the frontal impact score, so sorry your argument is dismissed (it is the chevy HHR that has a worse score below it for 2008 models BTW)
Scott

priggly

The 2009 "smart" has a score of 162, not 131, which applied to the 2008 model. The frontal impact fatality risk points are 94.3, the HIGHEST of any vehicle in the list. The reason the trucks and SUV's have relatively high scores is because of their propensity to roll over, otherwise they score relatively well.

The informedforlife.org is a credible organization headed by an engineer who got tired of seeing the highway carnage caused by unsafe vehicles. For a summary of the founder's credentials, refer to the "About Us" section. The scores are comprehensive, objective and unbiased and, unlike other highway safety analyses, take into consideration all known safety factors pertaining to a vehicle. The data is updated when more current information becomes available and as of this date was updated only yesterday, June 28th. These factors in my book makes their data the best available in determining the comparative safety standings for cars.

The weight of the car in a crash is very much a factor in determining whether it is safe or not and correlates closely with driver and passenger morbidity and mortality statistics. Unfortunately, in the real world the car won't be driven on roads shared only by vehicles which are its size peers but by all vehicles, including those weighing 3,000 to 4,000 lb. and above.

The data is not meant to "scare people" as you state. It is meant to inform them and keep them alive should they suffer the misfortune of being involved in a motor vehicle accident. Just because you prefer the most dangerous car in the survey doesn't mean that everyone does. People should have the complete facts before them in deciding on a vehicle purchase. Informedforlife.org provides a valuable service in providing the most complete picture presently available of whether a vehicle is safe or not compared to its peers. Try not to be so defensive. If you wish to ignore the facts, that is up to you. As for me, I would rather have all the safety data available before making a decision to purchase one vehicle over another because in the final analysis it is safety which is the most important feature of any car.

[Deleted User]

What the hell is your problem? You call the smart a "death trap" and go on about how you are trying to "inform" people. Why? Like people don't know the smart is a small and light vehicle?

Is everyone supposed to ditch their older small cars which test even worse than the smart? Are urban cars to be forbidden? Should motor cycles, scooters and bicycles be outlawed because they are so much more unsafe than the smart?

Safety is NOT necessarily the most important feature of any car. It depends on who is doing the shopping. You don't want a smart. I get that. Now please shut up.

sbonhartwell

PLUS, The Insurance Institute rates it as one of the safest cars in most of the categories. Insurance companies no longer charge higher premiums because they finally investigated and found it to be safer than most of the vehicles they insure.

Sam

scwmcan

I am not the one being defensive, it is you who are being defensive. And yes YOU were using scare tactics, I never said the data was wrong (though I still question it's real world validity). And why would the 2009 smart have a higher risk than the 2008 the are the same car with no changes between them so therefore yes I do question the numbers. Is there data to back up the numbers (i.e. real world death and injury rates for each car) ? if not they have just put numbers into a calculation to make them say what they want them too, so sorry I still don't buy their numbers, the crash tests have been done and the smart is safe, it has been tested against larger cars and done well as well ( by Mercedes), and in the real world it has been in accidents with trucks and the passengers have been able to walk away with bruises. Is it as safe a larger car with the same safety features, maybe not (but due to the design of the car maybe it is better than you think), it is by no means a death trap as you stated though. I think your link places too much emphasis on the weight of the car, and this is just not for the smart, there are other factors besides weight that are important, and I think the people buying the car are aware that it is smaller and lighter than anything else currently on the road, they are also aware that in all safety tests the car has performed well (despite it's weight). Also I think you will find that the next generation of cars and trucks are going to be smaller and lighter, are you going to be afraid of them as well. BTW the smarts numbers a great except for when weight was taken into consideration, I find the site was misleading by saying that there were concerns with the NHSTA tests when the tests were passed with flying colors but when this site factored in weight the tests were a concern, that is what I call manipulating data to come to a predetermined conclusion regardless of real world results.
Scott

dennismau

It might be true that a Hummer is safer in a collision than a Smart car but the problem is we are running out of gas and it is getting more expensive day by day. The simple fact is VERY soon we are all going to be driving smaller and more economical vehicles. Americans are going to HAVE to change their thinking that they have to drive the very biggest car they can to be safe. Europe has already changed and we will have to also. Take a good long look at the Smart car. It's the future and it's coming sooner than you think.

Dennis

priggly

My problem is rude posters like you whose communication skills are limited to phrases like "shut up." How pathetic. Enjoy your death trap, greggie.

priggly

It is obvious that you are too emotionally biased to be able to objectively evaluate the material that informedforlife.org makes available.

priggly

Funerals are actually even more expensive than gas.

[Deleted User]

You made your point long ago. You have nothing new to say, except for insults and sarcasm. You really are incorrigible. Anyone has to wonder why you are still here and what is your agenda.

[Deleted User]

BTW, priggly wiggly with your exceptional communication skills, I bought something other than the smart I had ordered. However, unlike you, I don't see the need to denigrate those who find that this car does fit their needs.

priggly

The pot calling the kettle black. What a hypocrite. BTW your paranoia is showing.

priggly

And why didn't you buy the fabulous "smart?" Was it the incredible two year warranty? OR maybe the fact it takes premium gas? Or was it the fact it gets a whooping 26 mpg at 70 mph, as reported by one owner?

Incidentally, I wasn't denigrating anyone. That is more your style.

dennismau

I have a Smart car and driving back and forth to work and around town I have been averaging 40 to 45 MPG and on the highway I will get close to 50 MPG. You would have to drive the thing in 1st gear all the time to get 26 MPG! No matter what kind of car you drive there is always SOMETHING bigger. There are concrete trucks, eighteen-wheelers, Hummers, BIG pickup trucks. Does it make any sense to the conservation of fuel and the environment that to transport one person around you need a 5000 pound hunk of metal to feel safe. The simple fact is that unless americans move to smaller cars and change their wasteful with ways with our limited natural resources we are going to be forced to do it in the next few years anyway. Unless you make alot of money and even if you do do you really want to spend $200.00 a week on gas when gas hits $7.00 a gallon?

Dennis

PF_Flyer

Let's stop this personal stuff before it gets out of hand please.

Thank you.

joquito

60% of all auto deaths are people not wearing a seatbelt. So choosing to wear a seatbelt will contribute more to one's safety than which car they drive. If you want to know how a Smart car fares in an actual accident, here in the states, here ya go.

http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/smart_car_of_america/front/the_smart_car_saves_- - a_life.html