Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Tires, tires, tires

1239240241242243245»

Comments

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 16,860

    Update - I did change the tire and the noise still persists though not as intense as before... I am really stumped... the tire guy says all tries and rims are good.. Mazda and Firestone told me that wheel bearings, alignment and all suspension parts are good... I have already spent a good amount of money on this without a solution... makes me a wonder if one of the rims is slightly bent that they it was not detected in balancing or might be a simple case of a loose panel underneath....

    the really strange part is when I did a test run with my spare, there was no noise!

    Then I would agree there is a problem with that specific wheel and/or tire.

    MODERATOR

    2013 Hyundai Elantra GT / 2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

    Need help navigating? michaell@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

    Share your vehicle reviews

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 47,375
    Bad wheel balance can cause cupping (aka scalloping) but I don't think poor alignment would cause this. Poor alignment would cause feathering.

    Well if the spare eliminated the noise, then there you go---you have a tire or balance problem, or, as you say, a wheel issue.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • capriracercapriracer Somewhere in the USPosts: 818
    One of the problems with tire wear related issues is that the nomenclature is all over the map. It is very common for folks to use "cupping" to mean any kind of irregular wear, including "feathering". Plus, it is pretty difficult to determine the difference between wear caused by a bad shock or an out of balance tire/wheel assembly and wear caused by poor alignment. I've seen fairly knowledgeable people flub that one.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 10,296
    You can just run your hand around the circumference of the tire to see if you feel anything uneven.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 47,375
    True, the general public confuses the terms but tire experts can tell the difference. In feathering you'll feel a very sharp edge on one side of the tire, as if it had been dragged sideways. Cupping is a very definite series of depressions or divots going all way 'round the tire. The cupping is often related to suspension because of how the tire is pressed and released constantly on the road surface. Alignment issues almost always give you wear on one side of the tire but not the other.

    then there's the issue of under and over inflation, which has its own set of wear patterns.

    Tricky to read, yes and sometimes the wear patterns are not so definite as to make a solid conclusion.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • capriracercapriracer Somewhere in the USPosts: 818
    I'm going to followup on the above post with a bunch more detail - too much for a single post. I'll do this in steps so everyone gets an opportunity to comment before we move on. Here's the first one:

    ....... In feathering you'll feel a very sharp edge on one side of the tire, as if it had been dragged sideways. ........

    You can also feel a sharp edge Heel and Toe Wear. Usually the symptom is noise or a vibration.

    Heel and Toe Wear is when the wear on a tread element is low to high (leading edge to trailing edge) and is caused by applying torque to a tire for a long period of time - drive tires. It's a natural consequence of using a tire to propel the vehicle forward.

    When a tread element (especially a lug) enters the footprint, it is deflected backwards, which wears the leading edge. As time goes on, this wear progresses along the tread element.

    Too much toe in on the vehicle will aggravate the condition - as will under-inflation and insufficient tire rotation. Aggressive tread patterns are more prone to this condition.

    The fix is to rotate the tires and live with the noise and vibration until the wear pattern changes - which may take a while.

    The difference between Heel and Toe Wear, and Feather Edge Wear is the cause - and there is a slight difference in appearance. Unfortunately, usually there are multiple problems and distinguishing between the 2 types of wear is kind of a moot point.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 47,375
    I think some of the service writers at chain store operations throw out these terms without fully understanding them, further confusing the public. Part of an upsell, if you will. The important thing is that if you don't diagnose the cause of the unusual wear on your tires correctly, then the new tires will suffer the same fate.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • capriracercapriracer Somewhere in the USPosts: 818
    edited May 26
    I agree that proper diagnosis of tire wear is important, but most of the time, alignment is the issue. Tires and wheels are made to much tighter tolerances than they were a generation ago, basically eliminating that as a potential source of wear issues (and cupping wear is the only type of wear an out of balance tire and wheel assembly will cause).

    On the other hand, a bad shock can cause cupping wear, because the shock is damping out the unrestrained oscillation tendency of the spring.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 2,256
    There is a term we use that hasn't been mentioned, combination wear. Cupping is usually caused by the combination of several conditions. Once it starts on a tire there is little that can be done to reduce it or prevent it from getting worse. Some vehicles are more prone to the condition than others and a lot of that has to do with the camber specifications. We see a lot of cars that use a negative camber, around -0.7 degrees. The problem is the manufacturers allow +/- 1.0 degree before any adjustments are required, that means a car with camber angles of -1.5 degrees on it's axles doesn't get corrected even though that overloads the inside edge of these wider profile tires that are typically used today. That negative camber has a plus side in that the tires are more aggressive when cornering and afford better traction, but that also equals wear that will be increased.

    For some of the cars that suffer this wear choosing a tire that doesn't have lugs or sipping on the edges of the tread can help. We use a rectangular eraser to demonstrate what the tire lugs do while driving. Stand it up on end and then press down while leaning it slightly and you will see it deform just like the tire does. Now if you slide it you'll easily see that the wear is much faster on the loaded edge.
  • turbo64turbo64 Posts: 10
    I look at the max tire pressure and run the tire 8 pounds lighter. My tires always wear perfect, no cuppin or irregular wear.
  • turbo64turbo64 Posts: 10
    Don't waste your money on those goofy sounding tires. You will go through two or three sets of those compared to a good michelin, goodyear, bridgetone or continentals . Tires is the one place that you spend a little more, and you get a lot more.. Who wants to have tire trouble on a road trip, or any drive for that matter.
  • capriracercapriracer Somewhere in the USPosts: 818
    turbo64 said:

    I look at the max tire pressure and run the tire 8 pounds lighter. My tires always wear perfect, no cupping or irregular wear.

    This is a terrible way to determine what inflation pressure to run. For example, passenger car tires can have a max pressure of 35 psi, 44 psi, or 51 psi - and those numbers are all arbitrary.

  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 2,256

    This is a terrible way to determine what inflation pressure to run. For example, passenger car tires can have a max pressure of 35 psi, 44 psi, or 51 psi - and those numbers are all arbitrary.

    Correct. A tire should be pictured as a column of air that is holding the vehicle up. The cold inflation specs aren't arbitrary numbers, there is a lot of experience and engineering going into the calculations that are used to arrive at the specification. Isn't it funny that someone else can come along and just guess that some other pressure would be an improvement because of some arbitrary reason?


  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 35,789

    This is a terrible way to determine what inflation pressure to run. For example, passenger car tires can have a max pressure of 35 psi, 44 psi, or 51 psi - and those numbers are all arbitrary.

    Correct. A tire should be pictured as a column of air that is holding the vehicle up. The cold inflation specs aren't arbitrary numbers, there is a lot of experience and engineering going into the calculations that are used to arrive at the specification. Isn't it funny that someone else can come along and just guess that some other pressure would be an improvement because of some arbitrary reason?


    It's not an isolated occurrence, though. Over the years, we've had dozens of members that based their PSIs off of the MAX inflation pressure indicated on the tire..

    Some of them, you just can't convince, otherwise.

    MODERATOR

    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: US 25 & US 40Posts: 19,148
    edited May 27
    I am open to comments from those in the business about my tire pressure method. My leSabres have had 30 PSI as the pressure on the door recommended by GM for comfort as well as safety and tire wear. I usually run 32-34 cold pressure on front and 32 on rear. I use quality tires, Michelins only (Harmony now Destiny), and have not had any complaints about wear patterns by the regional dealer who does the rotations and rebalancing.

    If I'm leave for a trip, I often put tires up nearer 35 front and 33 rear. 225x60x16 tires.

    For the '14 Malibu with 33 as recommended pressure on Goodyear LS2, I used 35 front
    and 33 rear. Car is lighter in rear and didn't have much baggage on the last trip so it was
    relatively light.

    Comments?
  • texasestexases Posts: 6,030
    I have no problem running a couple of psi (cold) over the door placard, as long as it's less than the max on the tire. But, as said above, the max on the tire has nothing to do with proper psi, it's just the max.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 7,634
    I only deviate from the tire placard when I'm trying to adjust the balance of the car with respect to understeer/oversteer. On the track I usually run a few pounds higher- depending on the temperature or the old reliable sidewall chalk method...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 1999 Wrangler 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2009 328i Son's: 2004 X3 2.5i

  • capriracercapriracer Somewhere in the USPosts: 818
    Over the years, the way inflation pressures were determined has changed. Older vehicles used fairly smallish tires and really benefit from using a few more psi, where the newest cars have decently sized tires and the benefits of increased inflation pressure aren't needed..
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 35,789

    Over the years, the way inflation pressures were determined has changed. Older vehicles used fairly smallish tires and really benefit from using a few more psi, where the newest cars have decently sized tires and the benefits of increased inflation pressure aren't needed..

    Well.. that all depends on how fast you are going... B)

    MODERATOR

    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 3,068
    Have noticed my VW Golf is sensitive to over inflation...rotated tires recently and the tire icon came on because they were over inflated. Once they were adjusted down to specs, light went off and all is well. My first vehicle with the tire monitor thing but if it keeps the tires healthy, am all for it. Have Continentals on it now and am betting they are a bit pricey...not sure what I'll do when the time comes to replace them. With just over 6k on the clock, have some time to ponder this issue.

    The Sandman :) B)

    2015 Audi A3 (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2009 Nissan Versa SL Hatch (daughter #1) / 2008 Hyundai Accent GLS (daughter #2)

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: US 25 & US 40Posts: 19,148
    How to rotate the tires on my Cobalt 2008 sedan? I learned the tire store rotated them by going front -back keeping the wheels on the same side. The GM manuals always have the rears crossed to the front and the front tires going back to the rears on the same side.

    The tires are Michelin Destiny tires. The store said if there's no unusual wear showing, they keep the tires rotating the same direction.

    What do the folks here say?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 35,789

    How to rotate the tires on my Cobalt 2008 sedan? I learned the tire store rotated them by going front -back keeping the wheels on the same side. The GM manuals always have the rears crossed to the front and the front tires going back to the rears on the same side.

    The tires are Michelin Destiny tires. The store said if there's no unusual wear showing, they keep the tires rotating the same direction.

    What do the folks here say?

    I don't like crossing sides, just front to back.. but, my cars are really sensitive to wear patterns, etc...

    All-season tires, non-staggered, on FWD vehicles? I think you can do just about whatever you want, when it comes to rotation. (but, even then.. I only went front to back.. lol)

    MODERATOR

    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • texasestexases Posts: 6,030
    Either way is fine, I'd go with GM's recommendation.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 7,634
    On my FWD Mazdaspeed 3 I use the "Forward Cross"

    I get 40k to 50k out of each set of UHP all season tires, so that rotation pattern works for me.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 1999 Wrangler 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2009 328i Son's: 2004 X3 2.5i

  • capriracercapriracer Somewhere in the USPosts: 818
    THEE most important thing about tire rotation is the front to back switch. Front tires wear differently than rear tires.

    On a FWD, the front tires wear about 2 1/2 times faster than the rears. On a RWD, the fronts wear the shoulders, while the rears wear the center.

    Cross rotating is nice in that you can eliminate the side to side differences, but those differences are small compared to what happens front to rear.
Sign In or Register to comment.
Tires, tires, tires - Page 245 - Car Forums at Edmunds.com