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Toyota Tacoma 2004 and Earlier Frame Problem



  • tcincytcincy Posts: 28

    There is no way you should have to wait that long.
    Also, when I turned mine in they lent me an '08 Corolla.

    My advice:
    Call the Toyota service facility and get the phone number of the ISG rep who will handle paperwork for turn-ins at THAT dealership. Call the ISG rep and ask how long it will take. I think each ISG rep has a number of dealerships he visits and co-ordinates. Mine was close by, here in Cincinnati, and he handled all the northern Ky and southwest Oh dealerships.

    Service sent in paperwork, it was about
    2 weeks later the ISG rep called me with the offer, which was correct !

    About 4 days later I received an overnight envelope - from Texas - it was a contract to sell the vehicle for the amount the ISG guy quoted.

    I signed and dated it (and made a copy of course) and sent it back overnight same way.

    About a week later the ISG guy called me and about a week after that we met and he gave me the check.

    Get online at Kelley Blue Book, and using your vehicle's year, mileage and options on it, compute the "Average Retail" "Excellent" value. Then multiply that figure by 1.5 - THAT is what they should offer you, and I would fight anything less - that is what they are advertising.

    Mine was figured by the ISG guy exactly what I figured using the Kelley Blue Book website computing method. No funny business, no haggling. He had the exact amount. No reason for your ISG rep to do things any differently.

    Hope this helps
  • Chkman - Toyota tells me that the 2001 and newer trucks are not covered because the frame was treated for rust in different manner than the 2000 and oder trucks. If this is true, why are there so many 2001 and newer trucks with frame rust problems?

    The real issue here is drivers of 2001 and newer trucks (that should be less likely to have the damage, and are worth more than older trucks) are facing THE SAME PROBLEM. Yet, the aggravating thing is when we wak into a dealership these guys spit in our faces. There's no loaner, there's no expidited check, the dealer will not let us keep the unsafe-to-drive trucks on the lot while we wait for compensation. Worse yet- the dealer offers NO ASSISTANCE. "Can't drive your truck? you JUST bought it and now it's completely rusted. Tough $hi+. call 1-800-go-toyota and keep your fingers crossed."

    Really outrageous business practice. GM may build terrible cars, but it's Toyota that should be staring at bankrupcy. I know of 5 or six people in my family who will not purchase a toyota after hearing about this issue. Sick and tired of this. PS - it's been 60 days and counting - no check yet.
  • Chkman and theiglu

    You both mentioned cases of getting a loaner for 2001 model year failures.
    Is this up to the dealership to decide? I don't understand why I was declined the option. My dealership (Lia Toyota in Colonie NY) refused my requests I'll call out the Toyota care representatives I've spoken to - Joey Lopez and Autumn Branch - both told me that there was no way I could get a loaner or be reimbursed for one. WTF is going on here? I've been out of a car for 60 days!!!!
  • tcincytcincy Posts: 28
    chkman: Yes, you're correct. I thought his Toyota was older and covered under the program like mine. But I still propose that ANY Tacoma owner who has rust on the frame file a complaint wiht the NTSB and Toyota, and word it very clearly that it is a SAFETY ISSUE. That way, enough owners complain in writing, then it there may very well be a recall. I certainly consider rusted frames to be a safety issue and so should any Taco owner, whether covered under the rust buyback or not.
    Thanks again for the correction.
  • here is NY's lemon law

    NY AG's office - - html

    Cars Covered by the NY Used Car Lemon Law Include any car that:
    1. was purchased, leased or transferred after the earlier of 18,000 miles or two years from original delivery; AND
    2. was purchased or leased from a New York dealer; AND
    3. had a purchase price or lease value of at least $1,500; AND
    4. has been driven less than 100,000 miles at the time of purchase/lease; AND
    is used primarily for personal purposes.
    Unfortuately, in my case I'm not eligable for the protection.
    I bought my truck in March of 2007 with 102,000 miles - see #4
    I bought m truck in NJ - #2
    I had 129k on the clock when the frame rust was discovered.#1

    Ugh! talk about bad luck!!! I have no dealer history with lia (the place that inspected when i bought the truck and then found the frame damage 18 months later. They're not my favorate place on the planet - perhaps they should have found indications of rust back in march of 2007.

    Tcincy is right- this is a safety issue. I wrote to notify my DMV inspection shop unit who informed me that they know about the problem with the 1995-2000 trucks, but because toyota never issued a bulliten for newer trucks, there was no warning to shops about the 2001 and newer models. Kinda scary, huh? If firestone hadn't seen this before, and hadn't notified me about the damage and buy-back, i could have been killed in an accident had I been driving around. Scary, huh? I don't know how many people are out there tooling around in these trucks, but i know when the frames start failing, and people are being hurt, toyota will (and should) hava massive class action lawsuit on their hands. They shouldn't say they had no knowledge of the danger.
    Considering I have quite a bit of stock in toyota, i should write the SEC. Toyota's ignorance is a sign they aren't willing to face the liability of class action exposure - and they are open to risk of a lawsuit that will surely lower the value of their stock. That kind of ignorace is criminal. if I had the time and patience I'd try the angle, but I've been too busy with the safety issue to go after them for fraud.
  • Septebmer 22 - Lia Toyota, Colonie, NY " Your truck is not safe to drive. You can't keep your truck here uness you pay $35 per day. You have to drive it home or pay to have it towed. You get no loaner. Call 1-800-Go-Toyota."

    Toyota corporate offers me $1000 less than KBB value to buy my truck back. I can't get enymore from them. I ask toyota for money to tow it back to the dealer if i need to for the buyback - they decline my request.

    October 22; Toyota Care Customer support techs Autumn Branch and Joey Lopez "So long as we can load it on a truck, we can tow it from your house." I ask for this in writing, they decline my request.

    I 'unregister the truck, take the plates off and take the insurance off.

    November 12- Toyota ISG rep calls about my check "You must have the truck at the dealership to collect payment. We do not provide towing and will not come to your house."

    Now I have to pay to tow it back to the dealership. This is outrageous.

    Excuse me but this is complete bull$hit. If Toyota would but things in writing, or give me the same story twice in a row this would not happen. I am so angry right now I could explode.
  • Update:

    I was assigned a case manager at Toyota North America. Her name is Tiffany Bishop.

    I spoke at length with her yesterday. Explained my frustrations with the current situation and how the 100% KBB offer won't allow me to stay a Toyota customer (which is sad, being good longtime friends with the past president of TTORA-NE).

    Basically, she told me that an offer is at least 3 weeks away. She asked how my experience was so far in dealing with my dealership (which has been very positive so far, hats off to Toyota of Keene helping out with the loaner and being very respectful about this whole situation). She also mentioned that the offer also depends on if I was the original owner, if I've owned Toyota's before this one, etc. That alone frustrated me since I'm the second owner of this truck and I have never (and will never so far) buy a brand new vehicle due to price.

    I then explained nicely why I may not be able to stay a Toyota customer.

    This sums it up:

    - I get offered 100% KBB, which is about $10,300. I still owed $2300 on the truck. I've owned it for over 4 years.

    - I'd like to buy the same exact truck, but the new body style (Access cab, V6, Standard, TRD Off-Road Package, etc). I won't risk another rusty frame by getting the same truck that I had.

    - In New England, KBB for a 2006 with the exact options/specs with 35k miles on it is $17,300. Most are going for $4k-$8k MORE than KBB.

    - I told her, and I was being truthful, that if they give me KBB for my truck, I'd happily buy one from them for KBB. Not KBB + $5k. Just not fair and I can't afford new or to take another $13k loan out for a truck that MIGHT only last me 4 years again.

    - If KBB is the offer, where is the money going to come from to register the new vehicle? Even if I get a used old truck for $10,300, that's a $500 sales tax registration fee right there. Nevermind title, reg and inspection. If I go for a 2005+ and pay near $20k for it, that jumps the sales tax to $1000 here in MA. Once again, not something Toyota helps me with, and it adds to the out of pocket expense I'm having to deal with from owning a faulty Toyota truck.

    Finally, I asked if they were considering extending the program. She said they were due to the amount of people in the same situation as me. She then said that if I was going to take the offer they make, then in the future if they extend the program I'd be compensated the difference. I asked if I could get this in writing. She said they couldn't do that. I explained why I needed to have that statement in writing and she understood completely, just couldn't do anything about it.

    I talked to her for a good 45 minutes about the situation, the truck, the rust, the program, etc etc etc. I can't count the amount of times she said "I'm very sorry sir". I also know (and told her so) that she couldn't do anything different for me directly and it was up to the higher-ups in the company. I asked her to voice my concerns to them, I'm confident she will. She was typing the entire time I was speaking.

    She does this all day, every day. Feel bad for her and I'm sure she feels bad for people like us. I wouldn't want her job, that's for sure.
  • The Iglu - thank you so much for sharing your story. My satisfaction usually depended on who I was speaking to, and the circumstances of the conversation. I found Toyota staff to be at times very rude, other times they gave me false info.

    For example, two Toyota care people told me my truck could be bought back at my house, so I took it off the road.

    ISG (I learned today ISG is not a department, it's a contractor handling these buybacks) told me this was not true.

    The ISG rep I dealt with, Rob was increadibly helpful. He told me he's handled 1200 buybacks. He hadn't seen many 2001 and newer trucks when he started, but he claimed that each week there are more and more frames of newer trucks failing.He was stunned Toyota was only offering me $10,000. I am very glad I paid for the truck last year in full - I may still be making payments today.

    It was bittersweet that he told me he'd never seen a 2001 in better shape than my own. I had less than 130k on the clock and the truck was gorgeous. So sad. I should have gotten so much more.

    Please please please let me know when and if Toyota extends the 150% value to the 2001 - I feel that by compensating me for the difference Toyota would be doing the right thing. I was unfairly denied a rental, and my buyback took 7 weeks, but I'd feel righted for an additional $5.000. I don't consider it "buying me off" like one person quipped. I put over $1,500 of repairs and upgraded equiptment into the truck, and it was worth as much as $14k in the months before the buyback. I hope Toyota will stand up and do the right thing byt offering 2001 owners the same deal they extended to older vehicle owners. I won't hold my breath, however.
  • I am also dealing with Tiffany Bishop. Have 2001 that failed inspection
    I noticed the driver side rear body mount was pretty much rusted away.
    Called Toyota in Calif and they authorized my local dealer (Girard in New London, CT) to inspect it.
    They said it failed and I would be hearing from Toy. At that time the KBB was $10,000, a salesman even looked it up.
    A week or two later on Sept 21 a regional rep inspected it, said it failed and I would be hearing from them.
    Yesterday, 8 WEEKS LATER I get a call from Tiffany offering me $ 11,095. She said the KBB was 8,795 and the rest was because of my Toyota loyalty, I have owned four of them including a Highlander.
    I asked for the date which they figured the Kbb and she couldn't or wouldn't say. To me it should be the date it failed the inspect, not some later date whenever they get around to reviewing my case

    I feel I'm getting ripped off twice,not getting 150%, and a low Kbb value. She said she would try to find out the date the Kbb value was set but I doubt it will make a difference. It's kind of like being a hostage.
  • tcincytcincy Posts: 28
    I had a very positive experience with Toyota with one exception. The ISG offer was right on target - exactly 1.5 KBB exceptional for my mileage and options, the ISG rep was very nice, and the loaner car was right there the same day.

    **** the Tacoma/Tundra certificate, good for an additional $1,000 off a new Tacoma or $2,000 off a new is dated on the date the ISG rep contacts you by phone and you come to a buyback amount agreement.

    It is not dated the date you exchange the keys and title for the buyback check, which it should be.

    After we came to an agreement, there was a delay of al most 4 wks before I met the ISG rep. First, the written confirmation offer was sent before Labor Day weekend & took "overnight" mail almost a week to arrive, then the first few dates the ISG person mentioned I could not meet with them. So instead of the certificate being good for 60 days, I only had about a month to find another Tacoma/Tundra if I wanted to use the certificate. And I used the entire month - many dealers had only 1 or 2 Tacomas/Tundras on their lot in mid-September to mid-October. Toyota could have handled the certificate date better.
  • bigbebigbe Posts: 17
    Hi Everyone

    I just got my offer from Toyota for my 2001 Toyota Tacoma The kbb value is 10,300.00 Toyota offered 9,740. I asked her (Tiffany) about the 1000.00 coupon and she said that was added in the offer. so I guess they are offering 8,740 for a 10,300.00 Tacoma. She said I had one week to get back to her I don't know if I should take it.. What happens if I refuse
  • I asked her if the offer was negothable and she said no. My options are to accept the offer or keep the truck. It seems they are lowballing your KBB value as they are mine. See if you can find out what date the determined the value. I think values have dropped on 2001s in the last couple of months. In mid Sept mine was about 10,000, now it is 8700. That seems alot in 21/2 months.

    "tcincy" What year is your truck?
  • bigbebigbe Posts: 17
    Hi My truck is 2001 with 240000 but its mint with alot of extras
  • I have a 2001. I bought new.. I am very anal about maintenance
    I am an ase master certified tech.
    my frame is gone.. found out this weekend.. After reading up on this, im not optimistic. I guess I have to contact a toyota rep ? I am on the MASS/NH boarder.
    I keep reading that they are low balling 2001 owners but giving more than the fair amount back on older models. that makes a lot of sense..
  • It makes me sick that Toyota is ripping off 2001 owners while giving 1995 to 2000 owners 150%. Why can't owners of 2001+ trucks with the SAME frame damage get full value of their trucks? Why can't we get a complimentary loaner? Wy should we deal with a 1-800# and seven weeks of hell?! Because Toyota is gambling on the fact you won't complain! Take the money, of course, but if you don't say anything then Toyota is under no pressure to do anything about it.

    Take the time and write the appropriate agencies about this issue.

    Southland California Better Business Bureau
    Your state attorney general
    Your state consumer protection board
    National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)
    The Federal Trade Commission (FTC)
    Your state and federal assemblyman and congressman
    Local news (tv and newspaper)
    60 minutes and Dateline
    Various internet complaint centers

    Toyota will keep doing this. The KBB values for 2001 and newer Tacoma trucks are dropping because more and more frames are failing. My ISG rep told me that he PERSONALLY handled over1200 buybacks since March. Each week more and more 2001 Tacomas are included - but guess what? Toyota doesn't give us 150%. They give us less than 100%.


    I have form letters, adresses, advice for documentaion, and I'm more than happy to help you. I had a 2001 Tacoma and was RIPPED off by Toyota. I'll do everything in my power to make sure that
    1. Dangerous trucks are taken off the road.
    2. Toyota pays a fair market value for those trucks
    3. All customers affected get the same treatment. Currently, 2001 and newer truck owners are completely hung out to dry. No loaner, no full value, no dealership asistance.

    Feel free to write me and I'l do anything I can to help you. (catchy email, huh?:)
  • I took my Taco off the road in Dec of 07, rearend rusted out and the gear lube ran right out on the ground. I have owned the vehicle since 1999! I planned on replacing the rearend in the summer months and reregistering the vehicle. I received my letter in the summer about the frame recall. The truck was not drivable do to the rearend problem. I figured there wasn't much I could do about buyback as the truck was no longer registered.

    A few months ago I was told by a toyota service man, that the truck did not have to be currently registered to qualify for the buyback. I called service at Edmunds and they said they would come and get the truck insp the frame and submit the info to Toyota. They came and got it a month ago and I have been getting the run around from Toyota every since!!! First from Isg, they wanted a copy of my current registration, I explained to them I do not have it currently registered, because I took it off the road due to the rearend problem, They then said I needed a copy of the failed PA insp report. I can't get the vehicle insp, as it is no longer registered!

    I then called Toyota and complained that I was getting no where with ISG, I was assigned a case number and have been playing phone tag with the case manager for two weeks!!! Finally got to talk to her today, and the same basic runaround, they want a current reg or a failed Pa. insp report. I am not about to reinsure a vehicle I cannot drive, just to get a temp registration, so that the Toyota dealership can attemptto insp a vehicle which they have already checked out and determined that the frame was shot!!!

    I loved my Tacoma have owned it since 1999, but I assure you after this experiece I will NEVER own another Toyota in my life!!!!
  • I spoke with Tiffany today. I hadn't heard from her since my initial call with her. I called in.

    They are currently processing my offer, no word on how much it will be as of yet. says (today) that it should be worth $10,405 as is. We'll see how much the offer is.

    I expressed my feelings on how I'd love to own a newer style Tacoma but they are nowhere near selling for KBB value, much higher. I also told her that I thought it was only fair that we (as in the 2001+ owners) are given the chance to buy a pre-owned Tacoma for KBB through Toyota since what we are receiving for our trucks is exactly KBB, not the inflated value of Tacoma's in NE.

    Toyota has used Tacoma's in their inventory. I'd love to buy another, but I can't spend twice as much as the offer to get a truck that KBB says is worth only 1.5x. I asked if they may be able to setup a program that would allow Toyota buyback customers a chance at the used inventory for KBB price. It's only fair. We can't bargain for more money when they buy our truck, and we also can't buy another using the same pricing scheme. She said she would bring this up at her weekly meeting. I assured her that if this was a possibility, I'd buy a newer version of my truck used the day I got my check. I was being honest. However, I will NOT pay $22k for a truck that KBB says is worth $17k if nothing can be done and it will be my last Toyota car, truck, etc if there is nothing they can do to help me own another. Too bad, the wife and I were eyeing the new Matrix as our first ever brand new car.

    She also assured me (verbally) that if there is an extension of the program, any 2001 owners that had taken the buy-back will be compensated the difference. I asked for this in writing (as you can probably understand) but she said there was no such document and she was unable to provide that.

    I'll keep you guys posted. Tiffany has been very nice through this whole thing and listened to everything I've said.

    I really REALLY hope Toyota reads this thread.....
  • Tkrott: Toyota and ISG are always on a different page. It may be worth it to get a cheap insurance policy, register the truck, and then have it fail an inspection to start thr process. Unfortunately It may cost you a few hundred - but let's face it - if the truck rots you'll never get athe few thousand you should get. if this is a '99 you will at least get 150% the best KBB value, even though to be honest you would not get anything close to 100% out in the market because of the rear-end issue. This is all risky because Toyota was adamant about not buying salvage trucks and they always want to deal with the dealership. You would be best to get it inspected at a Toyota dealership so that when it fails you can leave it there.

    Theiglu: Even if Toyota reads your post it won't change anything. Toyota won't put anything in writing (it's disgusting) so I'll keep my fingers crossed with you. Save all your paperwork, take good notes, and never take anything they say as official. Toyota delaership told me "you have to pay $35 a day to store it while you get your check." I took it home. Toyota Customer Care told me that ISG could take the truck from my house so I took the truck off the road. ISG told me "The dealer should have stored it for free and there is no way we will pick it up! We won't pay to pick it up, either. You have to tow it back in to get your check." The level of confusion is of an epic proportion at Toyota.

    That was a great idea about the purchase of a new Toyota. You would think they would want to keep a customer, and bait you to stay with them. But, given 2001+ owners have been so marginalized (no free loaner, no dealer help, no 150%, and no $1,000 credit towards a new Toyota) I expect little from the company in regards your idea, however novel it is.You are brave geting a newer Tacoma but it's not just the frame rust that bothers me - it's how the company turned it's back on me for my 2001. "Fool me once, shame on you... Fool me twice...."

    Good luck to you both and like I always say - Write some letters!!!!
  • per ISG latonyia..

    i have to bring it to a local dealer and they will determine if it has failed.
    IT HAS.. im a mechanic.. I have my own lift.

    if so they will submit the paper work to toyota corp and someone there
    will contact me to discuss a buy back.

    she said ISG is handling the 95 to 2000 buy backs and it is done differently
    with 01 to 05..

    seems like some sort of scam and or cover up..
    stand by.

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  • For mcalautt and others (and there are alot of you). Here's my advice.

    I understand your frustration. My truck was a 2001, I paid over $12k for it in March of 2007 and thought I got a deal because KBB was about $14k. In September 2008 the frame was shot and after a month of frustration Toyota offered me $10,355. KBB value was $11,300. I'm also angry. It SHOULD be worth about $12-13k but of course with all the panic ofer frame rust the value is dropping. Toyota should have offered me at least $13k because I spent about $1,000 in repairs alone.

    First off - be patient. Follow their instruction (yeah, it's BS) but don't give up - ask how long you have to accept of decline their offer. On day one the clock starts ticking so attempt to enter complaints (C) and, where possible, mediation (M) with the following agencies

    - National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (C)
    - Your state attorney general (C + M)
    - The Federal Trade Commission (C+M)
    - Your state consumer protection board (C+M)
    - Southern California Better business bureau (C+M)

    With each complaint be thourugh but to the point

    1. Short vehcile history - what you paid, when the problem was discovered.
    2. Toyota's response
    3. Why you think you're being ripped off
    4. What you want them to do

    After a few days (but BEFORE your offier expires) write these folks

    Local news (TV, radio, TV)
    local elected officials (Senator, assemblymen)
    60 minutes

    It looks daunting, but honestly, it takes letters to get the attention of people who have the power to step in and stop Toyota's BS. I write one letter a day for each of the 30 days Toyota said i could consider their offer. On day 29 I accepted the offer (it would be dumb not to) and now I'm considering small claims court for the $2,000 Toyota should have paid me.

    Document everything
    Be calm
    Take the money
    write letters
    make phone calls

    The tide will turn and Toyota will start treating 2001+ owners with some respect.

    Hope this helps.

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