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You must not own one. There's a lot to like, and if the ONLY reason to buy were to reduce emissions (which is not even MENTIONED here), that would be reason enough to consider a hybrid. But that isn't why I like my Prius; it's because of the quiet, elegant, smooth ride; the great looks; the excellent mileage; and the chance to support a newly developing alternative fuel technology (storage batteries) that will be used in almost every area of consumer electronics in the future. Good enough for me!
The Problem with both CA and especially CNW is that both have ulterior motives so the data is cherry picked to prove their preconceived notion - or agenda.
CA just wants to find customers for it's principals whether it's toothpaste, pharmaceuticals, baby toys or autos.
CNW is purely bogus. A number of people have shown how ludicrous his assumptions and therefore conclusions are. My friend with 166,000 miles on his Prius doesnt exist in the CNW world. The failing that everyone picks out is that he arbitrarily chose 109,000 miles for the Prius' useful service and 300,000 miles for the Hummer's. Well at the time of his study the Hummer had only been out a few years so none at all had reached 300,000 miles. In addition he made the erroneous assumption that Prius would be city vehicles that only drove about 7000 miles annually. Using one for a mobile office or to commute 150 mi a day never was considered. Yet these are two of the best reasons to own a Prius. The mega-milers such as my friend are far more likely to buy one simply for the huge savings in fuel.
One of the best counter arguments to CNW's whole thesis is presented by Michael Karesh of True Delta. Let me give you one example based on a GM vehicle...standby..
Here is the line from TrueDelta: http://www.truedelta.com/blog/?p=48
An except that pretty much says it all:
The least expensive car, allegedly, is the Scion xB. It is projected to cost 0.492 dollars (love the precision to three decimal places!) over a lifetime of 189,000 miles. A little math finds a total cost of $92,988. And this is the cheapest car to own, by a good margin. Five cars from the bottom we’re already at 0.70 dollars per mile. And the lowly Chevolet Malibu, one of the least expensive “lower mid-range” cars? $1.962 per mile. Muliply by the projected lifetime of 163,000 miles, and we’ve got a lifetime cost of $319,806.
Let’s assume these cars will be driven 12,000 miles per year. Then that Malibu costs $23,544 per year. Own two similarly mid-level cars? Then apparently you’re paying about $46,000 each year to buy them and keep them going.
How can CNW issue a report with these numbers, and keep a straight face? Not just once, but now for the second straight year? These numbers aren’t just off. They’re so far off that the study was clearly based on extreme assumptions that, based on the results, should not have been made. (These assumptions discussed in a subsequent blog entry.)
Yes, they’ve calculated the amount of energy required, then converted this into dollars based on the current cost of energy. But in the capitalist system within which we live, virtually all costs end up reflected in the price to the customer. No one is heavily subsidizing General Motors’ electric bill. Or the energy bills of its suppliers. Or the energy bills of its employees. GM pays its employees and suppliers (who pay their employees), and GM’s customers pay GM.
But to elaborate to show just how ludicrous this study is..
CNW pretends that a Malibu will 'cost' us $319,806!!! How can this possibly be?? A $23000 vehicle to the consumer ( Big Assumptions here: it costs GM less than $23000 to build it; GM's suppliers sell parts and subassemblies at a profit; neither GM nor its suppliers 'subsidize' various costs to the consumer ).
OK the buyer takes delivery of a vehicle at $23000 which is fully costed with no subsidies. The driver puts about 169,000+ miles on the vehicle according to the study at an average fuel economy of say 25 mpg. This equates to about 6800 gal of fuel at say $3 per gallon. That's about $20500 in fuel cost. ( 2nd set of BIG Assumptions: the oil companies are selling the fuel at fully costed prices and making profits from it; they are not subsidizing the purchase price of the fuel ).
Here is the clincher and why this whole study is so bogus. Those that keep referring to it should be embarrassed :P . The vehicle is scrapped and recycled. The final 'dust to dust' lifetime cost is $319,806 !! Wait a sec.... $23000 + $20500 = $43500, call it $50000 for round numbers.
It costs $269,806 to scrap this vehicle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who paid for that? It certainly wasn't the owner. It certainly wasn't me or you. Someone spent $269,000 to scrap and recycle one Malibu??? How did that person get repaid? What about the thousands and tens of thousands and millions of other vehicles on the road that get scrapped each year. Say 2 million vehicles 'leave' the national fleet.
Math: 2,000,000 x $260,000 per = a stupid number that somehow was never paid by anyone. The car gods absorbed the cost.
And lets hope you don't have to tow a trailer or carry seven passengers with your Prius!
Different vehicles for different purposes. I am always interested to see single drivers in the monster vehicles. But I know that sometimes people do need those large SUVs, and perhaps that single woman just dropped all her kids off at school.
Secondly, I started this thread just to bring attention to the voices of Prius owners who mostly seem to agree with me that this is one heck of a "green" money saving car. There were quite a few naysayers trashing the car b/4 it had its' chance to prove or disprove itself. Things like... "It costs way to much more than a conventional car."...."It was to complex in its' hybride format."..."The batteries will fail costing the owners mega-bucks to replace.".."MPG's fail to live up to EPA ratings"(as we all know no car lives up to those ratings. Oh, and my favorite..."Resales will plunge." I personally know 6 other owners of Prius's and it is unanimous..."Best darn car ever!" I presently and anxiously await a new and better Hybrid Prius or something new to taste this year.(probably 2009)
P.S. By the way...A Prius can handle 5 adults reasonably well..o.k. as long as they're not "Andre The Giant."
We live in lower New England - get snow, sleet, but it's not too hilly. I would not want to HAVE to drive Prius in bad weather... DH drives Prius to commute 45 min to work; if he knows weather will be bad he sometimes takes AWD SUV instead.
Yes, the Gen 1 Prius was similar in design to the Echo, which was ugly, but very functional and roomy. They sacrificed some of that headroom for the CU Ft of a hatchback, plus the better cD.
I haven't sat back there. Sure looks small though...
The smallest Toyota that I have checked out with good rear headroom and legroom is the Sequoia. The new CrewMax is great in back. You can ride in back of the Prius or Camry. I would not ask my adult friends to do that. That is me and I think as much of my passengers comfort as my own. I will not try to save a dollars worth of gas and squeeze a friend into the back seat of an econobox.
Let me know, because if you did mean that, then I have further comments.....
PS
I almost always have to put the drivers seat as far back as it will go in newer vehicles. I am just over 6 foot. Yes our LS400 is too small in my opinion.
You can call any car you want an econobox, but that does not change the fact that it is not one.
I'm under average height for a male, but in my opinion, there's still plenty of room in the Camry's back seat, certainly for two average-sized adults. It will also work for 3.
The Prius has comparable head and legroom to the Camry (my son has an '06), surprisingly enough. It's only in width that it's narrower, but 3 slender adults will still fit. (I realize not too many people are "slender" any more!)
Will do when I'm in the market, which won't be for a couple of years. And if Honda gets CARB diesels approved, I won't be shopping for a Prius...
I think you must be referring to someone else's post, I never posted my height.
But you should consider that some people have long legs, and some people have long torsos. It isn't just the height, it is the height while sitting...
You might want to glance at the Taurus X. It has a lot of usable headroom, even in the 3rd row. It also has command seating like an SUV, but with normal entry - you don't climb up into it. And it will beat the heck out of a Sequioa for MPG.
I sat in a new Prius while they were waxing our new Sequoia. The Prius does have better headroom than the Camry XLE that I also sat in. They both seem very small when compared to the Sequoia. I will take the latter and spend a few bucks more for gas. I got a wonderful discount because of all you folks worried about the price of gas. They are having a hard time selling the big ones and you can get ONE great deal. How about $10k off MSRP on a maxed out limited 4X4 Sequoia. I have not gotten to drive it. The wife put the first 26 miles home. I think she likes the NAV.
I don't know about the Sequoia, but the MPG forum for the Taurus is reporting about 18 city / 27 Highway, though that may have been for a FWD. A lot depends on the heaviness of foot.
But I didn't realize that you wanted body on frame - the T-Rex doesn't meet that criteria. However I don't think the Government will outlaw BOF - It will be economics that does the job (if it happens).
Tires replaced at 50,000 mi exactly
Tires rotated every 10K ( 7 times ) @ $29 each rotation
14th oil change just done ( all free )
Windshield replaced from 2 rocks and a 'deer attack'
'deer attack ' and 'lady attack' repaired under insurance
Total cost of maintenance/operation through 70000 miles
4 new tires $380
7 rotations $200
Fuel: 70000 mi @ 47.9 mpg = ~1400 gal x $2.50 Avg/gal = ~$3500
I recently check the linings of my brakes. The front brake pad shows a 50% wear and the rear brake shoes showed more significant wear. I estimate that I may need a a brake shoe replacement at the 120K mark.
All rubber components on the car still looks good. Axle and steering boots, brake hoses, suspension bushings, coolant hoses, belts, etc.
The original Goodyear Integrity tires lasted 50K. The Goodyear Assurance I put in might still get me past the 115K miles. One rear shock absorber has some wetness in it. Fluid may be starting to leak slightly. Generally the shocks still in excellent shape.
One concern I have is the ICE timing mechanism. My local dealer says I do not have to replace it. I assume the Prius engine uses a timing chain. Anybody out there can confirm this?
All V6s beginning with the GR family of engines also use chains iso belts
All the new V8's beginning with the UR family of engines will use chains iso belts.
As of today the only vehicles being made that use timing belts are the 3.3L V6 Solaras, the 3.3L hybrid Highlanders and the 4.7L V8's in the 4R, Sequoia and Tundra's.
Thanks for your help
P.S. Prius: Car of The FutureToday!
Regards the Prius the actual maintenance is probably less than any traditional car; no timing belts, plugs at 100K+, brakes lasting upwards of 200,000 mi. Basically it's oil/filters and air filters on a regular basis. Then wear items.
But... all new vehicles are just an assembly of mini-computers. These ECU units are just like your laptop. There might be as many as 20-40 of them in any modern vehicle....and the warranty on these units is limited to 36 mos / 36000 miles. The Prius units have been remarkably failure-free. But this is a personal decision of whether to get a 7 yr / 100,000 mile wrap around Vehicle Service Agreement or to self-insure your vehicle.
At 72000 mi I've done nothing to mine except repair phycial damange from being hit.
I find if I go too fast they fail, so I never push the rated speed anymore. I have always loved it and knew from early on with the Prius that my next car would be a Prius.
(Hoping for a PHEV model soon, will keep mine a few more years if need be to wait)