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Isuzu Trooper

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  • Based on previous advice on this board I just got a Hidden Hitch from Automotive Accessories Connection. They had the parts drop shipped from HH directly to me. The hitch for 92-up Troopers is part #87544 ($139.95) and the T connector is #38817 ($29.95) plus $5.90 shipping total. It looks great and appears to come with all parts. The T connector is for the 5 pin standard, I think, so it may not be right for your trailer. I plan to put it on tomorrow and will let you know how it turns out. I ordered by phone (888)425-2885 on 2/11 and it arrived 2/14.
  • Although, I'd be the first to admit that Troopers depreciate rather quickly...two things to consider are:
    -because of low financing incentives, sales of new vehicles are way up, creating a glut of used cars out there. prices are more competitive for all sorts of used vehicles, not just the trooper.
    -the public's infatuation with car-like suv's is depressing the price of all truck based products, not just the trooper.
  • jim112jim112 Posts: 12
    I recently noticed a change when my '99 Trooper shifts into the highest gear (overdrive?). The vehicle has 20,500 miles and has been "babied" - no towing, no off-road, etc.. I now notice a slight hesitation when the trans shifts; with the hesitation, the tach also fluctuates momentarily (drops from about 2500 back to 2000, then briefly goes back up 300-500 rpm before settling at about 2000)

    I also notice when reapplying the throttle, after decelerating on level ground, the engine rpms immediately go up to a level 300-400 rpms above where it settles one second later.

    I took the vehicle to the local Isuzu dealer. They determined it to be low of trans fluid and stated they added one quart. At that time I asked if the trans needed service and was told no need until 30,000 (I was also told this at the same dealership in Oct of 2000).

    The symptoms did not change and I returned the vehicle one week and 250 miles later. I was told the computer failed to find a problem, running one quart low of fluid should not cause a problem, the symptom was not duplicated on test drive, and I would need complete trans service to the tune of $250 as recommended in the Owner's Manual for "severe duty use" "as a starting point." This is a bit inconsistent with my Manual; it is also interesting that the Service Manager asked no questions about my driving habits but said the "severe" duty definition was written in such a way to include almost everyone. This, too, is inconsistent with my Owner's Manual and my Workshop Manual. Oh yes, I was charged a $30 diagnostic fee because the dealer could find no problem, therefore could not bill Isuzu.

    The issue is complicated by the fact that this dealer filled the trans 18,000 miles ago, it has not been touched since then, and it is not leaking.

    Could this be "normal" for this trans (I have not noticed it until now), what kind of damage would one expect if the fluid were low (1 or more quarts), and where should I go from here?

    Thanx for your help...

    jim
  • breakorbreakor Posts: 398
    I really don't know much about ATs but it sounds like your torque converter may be slipping. I don't remember any other owner reporting such symptoms. IIRC a few people have noticed leaks that were solved by tightening the plug(s) or replacing the plug gaskets. It almost seems like the dealer never filled it correctly 18k mis ago and this wore the fluid out prematurely. In any event it sure sounds like the dealer is giving you the run around.

    If this happened out of the blue after my warranty ran out I would do a flush now and go back with synthetic to see if that would solve the problem.

    Given that you have the dealer already involved for some time I suggest you stress the fact that you have never done severe duty. That the book IIRC doesn't require you to even check the level (at least before 30k mis). That the level was low through no fault of yours for up to 18k mis since you saw no signs of leaking. If this made the service severe duty then that is Isuzu's fault for having a leaky design with no level check requirement and/or the dealer's fault for underfilling. In either case, it should be fixed at no cost to you WHATEVER THAT TAKES.

    I would try another Isuzu dealer if at all possible to get a second opinion and maybe much better service. You could also try an AT shop to get their take on the condition and harm from running 1 qt low for maybe up to 18k mis. In either case I suggest you initially only tell them your symptoms and then let them do their diagnosis. Afterwards you can give them "the rest of the story" and see if that changes/reinforces their assessment. The AT shop report could then be used as leverage against the present dealer.

    Good luck.
  • Kevin, I got the Hidden Hitch installed on our 02 LS tonight. I am the most deliberate person you'll ever meet when it comes to doing something the first time (read "slow") and it took me about 90 minutes. The biggest problem is that the directions are somewhat confusing, because apparently some Troopers require you to drill two holes for the hitch. Mine didn't, as all the necessary holes with studs were present and HH's bolts fit perfectly. It took me a while to figure out which were the 12 mm bolts and which were 1/2" (only used the 12 and 10 mm bolts they supplied). I did have to shim one of the places with a washer (supplied), and had to remove a small hook bracket on the driver's side rearmost hole that wasn't mentioned in the directions. Also, for some reason the lock washer for the forward driver's side hole bent and separated before I reached the specified torque. I removed it and started again with an extra washer and the same thing started to happen, so I just stopped before reaching full torque. I think it will be OK.

    Also, the wiring connector from HH has 5 pins to connect to the Trooper plug but ends in 4 pins at the trailer connector: 3/1.
  • Who can tell me the correct torque for installing the engine oil drain bolt? I did the truck's first oil change today at 1,150 miles and found that, for some idiotic reason, Isuzu did not list the torque in the 2002 owner's manual. They did list the torque for the oil filter, which is redundant since they also say to tighten it 7/8 turn past where it seats, and they even mark the filters 1 through 8 on the circumference so you can easily count as you tighten. Why no drain plug torque spec?

    I just tightened it to 24 lbs-ft and hope that will be OK until I get the real number from one of you guys. My Maxima needs 22 lbs-ft and it's a smaller bolt.

    By the way, my first experience with my dealer's service dep't wasn't good. I called today to ask the question above and the "service manager" who answered said there's not a torque spec for that bolt. Right!! How many of us have had our bolts stripped at quick-oil-change places or even dealers where they use air wrenches? When I told him I knew better, his lame reply is that the Isuzu mechanics only work every other Saturday and this was their off day. Funny, the guy who sold us the car said they have full Isuzu service every Saturday, not just checkups and lubes.
  • breakorbreakor Posts: 398
    58ft-lbs is the number listed in the service manuals for the 1999. I guess 2002 is the same.

    FWIW my experience is that no dealer ever gives out such "top secret" information. They want you to pay them for service. If they tell you how to do it yourself then that is one less job they get paid to do. Also, in Isuzu's defense only so much information can fit in the owner's manual in the glove box. In fact the service manuals fill up 3 large 3-ring notebooks.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    I've got a copy of the 1998 Trooper workshop manual page that includes the engine oil drain plug torque spec. It lists 58 ft-lbs. I'm guessing the spec is the same from 1998 model year through current, and possibly the same as far back as the 1992 model year.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    Three days ago we bought a new 2002 Kia Sedona minivan. Anyway, the factory workshop manual is available from Helm for only 59 bucks! I couldn't believe it was this low, since the current Trooper manual costs well over $100. Helm seems to drop the price of the Trooper manuals gradually as the manual gets older. But even the 1998 manual still costs $90, IIRC. I've been meaning to buy one for our '98 Troop but just haven't gotten around to it b/c the $90 cost is hard to swallow.

    I was surprised that the Trooper manuals are so much more expensive than the Sedona manual. I can't think of any good reason why.
  • Thanks for the advice, guys. I would have been afraid to put 58 ft-lbs on it without knowing.

    Bluedevils, if it makes you feel any better, the manual for a 2000 Maxima is $275 plus shipping (3 volumes). Can you guess why I haven't bought it, yet?
  • bsmart1bsmart1 Posts: 377
    I work in a business that uses a lot of acronyms and I see several used on this board. But, I still have not figured out the one you use quite often. What is this IIRC you refer to?
    Oh yeah, exhaust system buzzing, rattle is FIXED!!
    It required the replacement of the muffler. By the way, if you guys think manuals are expensive for these vehicles, try pricing a muffler at over $400 from St. Charles ISUZU!! Yes thats right, more than $400. I had to go with an OR (original replacement) couldn't swallow the Isuzu price. There is some difference though. The replacement has more of a throaty sound to it, not quite a quiet as the original during acceleration. I'll be watching mileage to see if there's any change that could have been due to back pressure in the muffler that was rattling.
    Happy Trooping !!!
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    If I Recall Correctly.

    -mike
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    I didn't start using this until I saw paisan using it pretty frequently! Once I saw someone else using IIRC, I figured it must be widely known and safe to use without explanation.
  • gtroopgtroop Posts: 85
    I was just thinking on the way back from lunch today that I need to find out what that means. I'm glad someone asked too...
  • gpm5gpm5 Posts: 785
    I never tighten the drain plug or filter too tight--tight enough not to leak. They always seem to be tighter when you go to remove them, in my experience. Usually people with buggered up drain plugs have them very tight, and then they bugger then up when they can't get them back off.
  • Thanks for the hitch info. I ordered from Automotive Accessories Connection today.

    Thanks again for the advice. Paisan, did you have to do any drilling on your 98 to get it installed?
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I didn't have to drill anything on the 2000, just remove the tow-hook and the tied down hole, I moved the tow hook to the front of mine.

    -mike
  • Well, since CEL never went away completely (after 3 visits to 2 dealers - first was out-of-town, diagnosed with 'random cylinder misfire', second and third -to our 'own' dealer, who could only "reset" the computer, but CEL came on again couple of days later). The CEL would start flashing, then dissappear after driving a while, then start flashing again.
    So now our 00 Trooper with 27K mi is in the shop again. This time the CEL came on and stayed on so that my husband could drive it to the dealer and actiually show them what is happening.

    BTW, all these CEL's are AFTER having engine head(?) replaced due to casting defects in 2 of the cylinders (had it towed because it stalled and overheated - all coolant disappered thru the cracks in the cylinders)... Now they are telling us that one of the cylinders is firing two times slower then the others. I do not know what to believe any more. I don't want to bring up the dreaded "L"-word, but IMHO this is what our truck is.
    My husband will insist on total engine replacement, but I am not sure if he'll succeed. He's driving a loaner Altima and is seriously thinking about getting one instead of our troublesome truck. This is an indicator of how pissed he is at this whole thing. Also, there were rusted rotors, rusted exhaust (replaced under warranty), and "completely bad" front brakes (dealer mechanic never mentioned any sign of trouble doing regular service) - repaired out of our pocket.
    I read these forums and it seems that I have more problems than everyone else combined...
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    First you aren't going to collect on any Lemon Law policy you are well over the 12K limit in most states. My guess is that there is a problem with the ECU or something they didn't re-connect after the engine re-placement. Insisting on a new engine isn't going to fix a mis-fire cause that is computer controlled! It does seem like you have more problems than anyone else on here or other Isuzu boards :(

    -mike
  • I am only afraid that since the engine overheated before, it might have sustained internal damage of some sort. that's why i'd prefer having it replaced.
    this is the 2nd time the truck is out of comission for more than a week. Seriously, if i wasn't upside-down on my loan , i would have gotten rid of the darn thing.
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