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Isuzu Trooper

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  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well you just went over my head but I'll have to agree with your explaination for the simple reason that I can't refute to any degree what you are saying! My questions is this, do you believe that the torque split is 15/85 as is indicated on the dash above 5mph?

    -mike
  • keepontroopinkeepontroopin Member Posts: 297
    When I saw your pictures on your web site I thought you were like 40 something! Ha Ha :o)
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Welcome aboard! It's about time you decided to come out of the shadows and actively participate in the discussion.

    And thanks for the thoughtful posts!

    tidester
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  • gpm5gpm5 Member Posts: 785
    Interesting description. So free spinning back wheels in TOD will still allow transfer of torque to the front as I thought, unless one of the fronts is on a frictionless surface. Also, interesting that based on your observation the TOD guage is providing info on the split in torque to the front, not just that the fronts are turning.

    I thought I read once that although the wiring is there for the fog lights (I also have a '99) the wires apparently are not hooked up under the dash. I could be wrong on that but I thought that is what I read.
  • mkayemkaye Member Posts: 184
    How about trying to change the subject?

    How about them Patriots!
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    This is a very interesting and informative topic IMHO. I'm sure a lot of people wonder how/why/who/where/what the TOD system is actually doing. :)

    -mike
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    How about trying to change the subject?

    How about them Patriots!

    I don't think there's a legitimate link between the Patriots and Isuzu Troopers that could keep us on topic. Let's just discuss Troopers! :-)

    tidester
    Host
    SUVs
  • troopertutroopertu Member Posts: 4
    It broke itself when my wife blew hot air on it. Anybody knows if ISUZU dealer is good at changing it?

    Is the windshield under 5-year warranty? Mine is 2001.
  • dielectric7bbdielectric7bb Member Posts: 324
    If we want to know the limits of TOD we just need to:

    a) Place TOD in 2WD.
    b) measure torque/power at rear wheels (dynometer).
    c) Place TOD in Auto 4WD.
    d) Jack rear tires into air
    e) measure torque/power at front wheels (dynometer).

    Then we'll know the true limits of TOD :)
  • cmunizcmuniz Member Posts: 604
    Most likely it will not be covered by warranty. If there is NO indication of ANY rock damage, they might consider it. The dealer will look at the windshield very carefully and if they find anything that might have caused the damage they will deny your claim. There are so many glass places now that do a good job - even come to your house or work site that it should not be a problem to get a good replacement. If the dealer has a body shop, they will do the windshield. If not, they send it out. The good news is that the Trooper windshield is relatively inexpensive compared to other vehicles. Mine cost between $250 -$300.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    Yes, it's definitely much cheaper to replace than the windshield on other vehicles. We've had 2 replaced on newer Troopers and I think the cost was even less than what cmuniz paid.
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    I have read that behind one of the unlabeled switches next to that slot to the left of the wheel (which no one really knows the function of. except for maybe cigarette holder?) is the wiring for the fog light switch. You should be able to pop of the one in question (I imagine the owners manual could tell you which one is for it)and plug the OEM switch right into it. Other than that, install fog lights. That is what I have read and understood the scope to be.
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    the post about jacking up 3 wheels is exactly how I think TOD should work. Rear LSD, both spin, front open, free wheel spins. Sounds a little dangerous.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Good luck finding a dyno place that would let you stick a vehicle with 2 wheels jacked up on it :)

    -mike
  • gtroopgtroop Member Posts: 85
    Thought I would share this short story w/ everyone...

    We just experienced a "major" ice storm here in KC - three days of sleet and frozen rain. Left a couple hundred thousand homes w/o power from fallen power lines and trees. The Trooper was extremely capable and we had no problems until the stuff started to melt.

    The Trooper does not have a spot in the garage so it sat outside all three days and accumulated a couple of inches of ice on the roof. I thought to myself everytime I drove it, "make sure you get the ice off when it starts to melt." Friday while pulling out of the parking lot at work with temp of about 40 I forgot about it until I tapped the brakes, heard a sound, looked up through the moonroof just in time to see the 4x8 sheet of ice leave the roof. I watched helplessly as it slid off the roof and landed on the hood taking with it the Isuzu bug shield. Then, being a good person and not wanting to litter, I jumped out to grab the two pieces it broke into and sliced the palm of my hand. I thought for a minute that it must be Monday.

    Mike, your only 28?
  • bsmart1bsmart1 Member Posts: 377
    There was some talk a few weeks back about the anti-lock brakes on the Trooper being quick to respond and being LOUD. Well we had our first accumulating snow fall yesterday and last night, so I got out and played around in it a little this morning. What FUN!! I took the 97' Trooper into a 30 mph straight skid and thought the anti-lock brakes were never going to kick in. In fact it took me 3 trys to get them to activate. The first 2 stops were without anti-lock action ever occuring. You have to really get down on that pedal, and then there has to be significant sliding of the tires for it to work. No complaint mind you, but they are NOT sensitive IMHO. What they are is NOISY!! What a racket, and that braking action seems somewhat crude to me. The whole brake pedal vibrates and pumps back and forth. What's the system doing, triggering a solenoid valve to dump fluid or something?? It's not at all like the 96 GMC I used to drive. The GMC was smooth and not nearly as noisy. I dare say the ISUZU technology is a bit behind GMC.
    Happy Trooping !!
  • cknottcknott Member Posts: 61
    I went by my local Isuzu dealership today (Moss Robertson Isuzu; Gainesville, Georgia) and was able to get more exact information on how the TOD transfer case functions. I spoke with a very helpful die-hard Isuzu fan/mechanic for about an hour. The same process takes place as I indicated in my earlier post, but on different mechanical principles.

    I'll do my best to explain.

    A main shaft runs completely through the transfer case from the input(from the transmission) to the output(rear driveshaft). There is also a second shaft that is connected to the front driveshaft. A transfer case chain connects these two shafts together.(This is no different as compared to other modern transfer cases). However, the connection between this chain and the main shaft is not direct. The chain is attached to a "clutch assembly" gear that rides freely on the main shaft. This "clutch assembly" gear includes approsimately 6 clutch discs. Behind this "clutch assembly" gear, an armature plate is mounted directly to the main shaft through splines on the main shaft (This plate resembles the face of flywheel). Behind the armature plate, the electromagnetic coil is mounted. There are also speed sensors mounted on the transfer case to detect the speeds of the front and rear driveshafts.

    When the computer detects different driveshaft speeds, the computer will send electricity to the electromagnetic coil. This coil then creates a magnetic field and attempts to push the armature plate away thereby compressing all the clutch discs in the clutch assembly gear. This action then allows torque to be transmitted to the transfer case chain and then to the front driveshaft.

    The mechanic indicated that there is a small amount of preload applied to these clutch discs in their assembly. This would justify the spinning of the front wheels in my low friction experiences.

    We also discussed "modifying" the wiring to make an "all the time 50/50" 4wd high transfer case by keeping electricity at this coil at all times. He indicated that this should not cause a problem, but that I should verify that 12 volts are being sent to the coil and not some lower voltage adjusted by the computer. This would allow our transfer cases to function like the non TOD transfer cases for 4wd high applications. I was also concerned about running the coil "hot" all the time. He indicated that this should not be an issue because this is how automatic transmissions are designed and that the Isuzu Vehicross virtually runs the coil "hot" a substantially greater % of the time as compared to the Troopers.

    I will investigate this system by measuring the voltage going to the coil under the various conditions. If it is 12 volts, this is good news. At least for my 1999, the TOD computer is mounted directly under the passenger seat. It will be very easy to mount a swith under the seat that is hidden and easy to turn on/off from the driver position.

    He also indicated that back in 1999, Isuzu used only one wiring harness. At least, that is what he said. The wiring diagrams he showed me confirmed that.

    I wanted to at least better explain what I learned. I do not mean to drag out this TOD discussion.

    In regard to torque measurements. Torque to the front driveshaft will never exceed 50% of the available torque, and could potentially be limited by the strength of the clutch pack within the transfer case.

    Mike, based on the owner's manual and my personal experience, I believe the front driveshaft may receive up to 15% of the available torque (without TOD indicator lights) due to the preload placed on the "clutch assembly gear" during assembly.

    Has anybody added an engine oil cooler?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Great detective work! Could you do me a favor and e-mail me what you wrote above to mike@iace.com so I can put it up in the "FAQ" section of http://isuzu-suvs.com I find it great reading and something that a lot of Isuzu owners would find useful. Also if you figure out a way to make it 50/50 all the time, take pics and do a writeup for the "How-to" section! :)


    -mike

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    My buddy's dad had a '94 Blazer and that thing would grind the ABS and make a huge racket, it was also very sensitive. I find on the '00 Trooper the ABS rarely kicks in and when it does, it's quite smooth.

    -mike
  • dielectric7bbdielectric7bb Member Posts: 324
    I just wonder how much torque the electromagnetic clutch can actually transfer to the front axle, if not all of it. If I had TOD, I wouldn't lock-it into the'50/50' split unless I was off-road :) That slipping in turns would probably burn the clutch out real easy.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yes, you would only use the 50/50 split in off-road situations. :)

    -mike
  • sdc2sdc2 Member Posts: 780
    Excellent info cknott...I would love to find out how to "lock in" to 50/50 4hi, such as for deep snow. Keep us updated!

    One thought, if you are locked in 50/50, would there be any problem with driving on dry pavement (where normally TOD would be 15/85)? Probably not a problem, but too expensive to risk damaging anything.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yes it would be a problem. The same reason why you can't drive with a Part Time system engaged on dry pavement. Something has to give and it will be the diffys or the TOD T-case.

    -mike
  • justdrivinjustdrivin Member Posts: 17
    cknott,
    I live in the Gwinnett area. I have taken my 2000S Trooper to this dealership for recall work and they seemed pretty knowledgable. I have also been to Lou Sobh in Duluth and it felt like the typical dealership attitude. Do you have any experience with these dealers and what do you think of their service..any private shops you would recommend? Thanks for any info.
    David
  • cknottcknott Member Posts: 61
    TOD:
    I do not intend to drive on dry or even wet concrete/asphalt with the transfer case locked in 50/50. I would like this feature on snow, dirt roads, and any other loose surface above 20 MPH. However, even with this potential feature engaged on asphalt, I do not believe that it will cause any excessive additional wear to the transfer case and front axle that would cause failure as compared to the conventional TOD system. I do believe that you will definitely wear out your tires sooner. As Mike said, something has to give. For these Troopers, you will only need to worry about bouncing your truck on sandstone in Utah or New Mexico in order to bust gears, shafts, or transfer cases.

    Dealerships:
    I am somewhat anal about people touching my vehicles. My wife is allowed to put gas in the car, carry passengers & cargo, and drive the vehicle. I do everything-else.

    I have had only one "warranty" claim with this vehicle. My limited slip rear end did not engage as "tightly" as I wanted it to. In many situations, even with both rear tires on the ground, I was having to engage the parking brake to provoke the limited slip clutches to engage.

    I took it to Moss Robertson. One day they looked at the vehicle and ordered the parts. Two weeks later the parts arrived. They took one day to install new clutches in the limited slip case. I was somewhat apprehensive about them working on the rear end because of the necessary alignment that must take place between the ring and pinion, and ring gear backlash. The vehicle came back to me in great condition, no unusual sounds in the rear end and the limited slip reacts much more efficiently. Now I only need to engage the parking brake when one of the rear tires is in the air.

    I've noticed that I have long posts....sorry.

    Chad
  • pinoy99pinoy99 Member Posts: 79
    The truck is pre-wired for the fog lights. Once you removed one or two empty switch covers, you should see the plug where the oem switch(part#8971355120.. $45) plugs into;it could be foamed wrapped to prevent it from rattling. You will also need a relay(part#8970939101.. $21).The wiring by the bumper slot is easily accessable.
    HTH
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    How easily did you convince the dealer to fix the LSD? Mine isn't as tight as I'd like as well and I'd like to get it fixed but figured they would run me with the "that is normal" crap.

    -mike
  • cknottcknott Member Posts: 61
    I simply told them that the L/S differential didn't work.

    Pinoy99,
    Where did you get those prices for the parts. I have quotes of $79 for the switch and $36 for the relay. Ouch!
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I got $5x for the switch from St. Charles Isuzu. Thanks for the LSD info, when I go for my 30K service @ 40K miles, I'll have them fix that.

    -mike
  • pinoy99pinoy99 Member Posts: 79
    Both stcharlesauto.com in MO and gmproshop.com in MA offers 15% internet discount, no tax and free drop shipping; prices might have gone up but should not be even close to $79/$36.
  • keepontroopinkeepontroopin Member Posts: 297
    If some one finds the switch and relay for the prices mentioned above, please post a note here. I would like to buy them, but i too was quoted the high prices!
  • cknottcknott Member Posts: 61
    I was in fact able to get more reasonable pricing for the fog light switch and relay. St Charles and GM Pro shop offered the same price.
    $50.26 for the switch, $22.78 for the relay. No additional costs, shipping is free.

    Thanks for the info Pinoy99.

    Chad
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    What would be a good way to test LSD function? I have not had a problem, in sand and 2wd both wheels will spin, not just one? I tried on a small patch of ice the other night. 1 wheel on the ice and one off. The wheel on ice spun, but the truck moved? It is hard to tell if the wheel on the ice moved the truck or the other?

    How can I get one rear off the ground and test safely in urban environment? Jacking a side up and letting it knock over the jack seems unsafe? Any ideas?
  • sdc2sdc2 Member Posts: 780
    I bought a fog light switch to install in the knockout next to the existing fog light switch. I am going to hook it up to the driving lights I am going to mount on the nudge bar. It looks like it was designed for a plug to go into the back. Anybody have a good idea for hooking the driving light wiring harness to the switch?

    I should check with the dealer, but I doubt the plug is available separately, it is probably integral to the factory harness.
  • sdc2sdc2 Member Posts: 780
    I think your LSD is working properly. It is not a locker, it is just to get you moving when one wheel is slipping, just as you described.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Hey you guys have to come out Feb 17 to the Pine Barrens Run in the NJ! There are already a built up Amigo coming, and 2 Vehicrosses! Can't have the Troopa be outnumbered! Check it out http://isuzu-suvs.com/events


    -mike

  • djweberdjweber Member Posts: 18
    I have a 1999 Trooper without a roof rack. Any suggestions? I need something for occaisional family trips...the local dealer says they can't get them from Isuzu...it's a factory installed option only (seems odd).

    Sorry if this has been addressed earlier. Is there some way to search this board for keywords?

    Thanks
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Were available on 98->02 models of troopers. Only aftermarket ones. I know of a dealer up in NJ Cerami Isuzu on Rte 17 that sold all thiers with aftermarket OEM style ones on them. You might contact their sales deptartment and ask if they sell or could direct you to a company. http://overlander.com also sells OEM style racks. I believe http://www.ecb-usa.com also sells them as well although they aren't OEM style.


    -mike

  • cwmosercwmoser Member Posts: 227
    I checked with another dealer and they said $590 - $625 depending on whether the spark plugs needed to be replaced. Still in the $600 range for the 30k service.
  • sponzinnsponzinn Member Posts: 2
    I recently took my 99 Trooper to a local dealer to have the rear differential pinion seal replace. Upon picking it up I noticed a bad vibration above 50 mph (which got much worse the faster I went). I didn't have this problem when I originally took it to the dealer. Needless to say, the dealership tells me I now have a bad driveshaft yoke. My problem is that I have been waiting for a replacement yoke for over six weeks and the dealer tells me that there are 1,300 yokes back-ordered nationwide, and have yet to be "released" from Japan. I have even tried Isuzu's custom service with no satisfaction. Has anyone else experience this, or any similar problem, and does anyone have any suggestions on a remedy.

    At this point I can't drive over 45 mph. Besides, what good is a warranty if parts availability is a problem. This doesn't make me feel real comfortable about the long-term prospect of owning this vehicle.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I highly doubt there are 1400 backorderd. This is the first case I've heard of, besides there are only about 40K trucks here to begin with, which means that 1400/40K is quite a lot.

    -mike
  • dielectric7bbdielectric7bb Member Posts: 324
    Go to a new dealer and get a second opinion if you can. Sounds like they did bad work to begin with and don't know how to fix it. I didn't think that changing the pinion seal required any thing to be done to the driveshaft yoke, but I could be wrong :)
  • gpm5gpm5 Member Posts: 785
    I've read about driveshafts in chevy trucks being out of balance. Could they have dropped or damaged the driveshaft itself, putting it out of balance? You might check the driveshaft balance with another dealer.
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    I like my thule aftermarket rack. On vacation I usually carry a cargo box a 2 bikes. It is also great for lumber, ladders, etc. Due to highway noise, I recently added a fairing. While it looks cool, and really cuts down on the noise, I have noticed that I don't get slightly lower MPG on the highway with the fairing on. Despite the claims of helping with gas mileage I think anything that gives the trooper a larger profile cannot help, and my results go to prove that.

    Overall, I really like my rack, and the fairing is good too. 1.5 MPG on the highway isn't that big of a deal.
  • gpm5gpm5 Member Posts: 785
    That is good to know that all is in place. The situation of the wiring not being connected may have been something I read for the sequoia. Can someone tell me if there are aftermarket fog lights that fit cleanly into the rectangular slots and how they mount. Also, how much are the OEM fog lights?
  • boxtrooperboxtrooper Member Posts: 843
    If you can show that the dealer that replaced the seal damaged your Trooper then they should pay to have it repaired even at another shop. Bring this up with the repair manager and dealership owners before you spend your own money.
  • pinoy99pinoy99 Member Posts: 79
    98 S were suppossedly not pre-wired for the switch but I can't see any reason why Isuzu will suddenly change the wiring after 1 production year.

    A fellow at vmag installed Hella 450's($79 pair) but a mounting bracket(angle iron) must be used to mount the lights. The oem lights are RH part# 8971836400 ..$81, LH part#8971836410 ..$96 both have the brackets tho you still might need the metric nuts.HTH
  • pinoy99pinoy99 Member Posts: 79
    It seems that this is a weak link on this truck especially if you do sandy excursion(surf fishing etc). Mine was replaced at 22k free under warranty without any problems.
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    How did you know it was bad? Or did they just do it as part of maintenace? I do a lot of sand driving (surf fishing). Don't think I have a problem, but I do crawl under my truck every so often and would be interested in knowing what to look for.
  • troopertutroopertu Member Posts: 4
    Dealer did found a tiny rock damage under the wiper. So I paid the replacement by myself -- $225 plus tax. I used a dealer recommended company. They have a van that has all the parts and tools, so they drove to my work site and replaced the windshield in 30 minutes. Pretty strait forward.
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