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Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn

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  • And after much research and testing I bought the LX Santa Fe with FWD and with 2400 miles couldn't be happier. Had to have the sun/moon roof installed after market but through the dealer. Don't know that many can compete with my success with vehicles. Seriously, My first purchase was a Plymouth Duster in 73.. After 13 yrs.. purchased a K car(still in use) and 2002 just got our Santa Fe 3/1/02. My best purchase yet.. trust me lol... I have the track record to prove my past decisions.. I love my Santa Fe!!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Sounds like you take pretty good care of your cars. Congrats on the new one.

    -juice
  • thor9thor9 Posts: 26
    Here is a link I also posted on the Edmund's Hyundai Santa Fe board, to a story from the Detroit News regarding sales of the Hyundai Santa Fe & Jeep Liberty. I thought this might be of interest to everyone who reads this board.


    http://detnews.com/2002/autosinsider/0204/06/autos-458536.htm


    Interesting that they note that Hyundai has only one-sixth or one-seventh as many dealers as Ford, but sold HALF as many Santa Fe's as Ford sold Escapes.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That isn't as significant as it sounds - Ford has many SUVs, while Hyundai has only one. So someone shopping for an Escape might buy an Explorer or even a Taurus wagon.

    Still, Hyundai is doing well.

    -juice
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    side to this is the 10yr/100000 mile warranty sways people. Along with the Santa Fe sells for about 1K less than a comparable Escape. But, I guess if you are paying Yon Lu $2 an hour with no health benefits, 401K, or medical benefits you can cut the prices of your vehicles..
  • txsantafetxsantafe Posts: 25
    Come on Scape2,

    Everybody knows that Yon Lu makes $5 an hour not $2
  • carseeker4carseeker4 Posts: 228
    And its amazing how those unmotivated workers can make a better car. Your constant defense of the Escape, in the face of all its problems, along with this last post, are very revealing. I'm an American, but am quite ashamed of the level of quality American labor is turning out (and service for that matter - has anyone had an appliance repairman over lately?) - Anyway, regarding the low wages, we need to consider that the bulk of work is probably done by robotics anyway! (They don't have a union, I can see it now....). Maybe Hyundai shouldn't open a plant in the US.... I actually expect an attack on Hyundai from organized "labor" and other groups like that, since they can't stand success at their expense!
  • suvshopper4suvshopper4 Posts: 1,110
    Foreign labor rate doesn't come down to absolute dollars, but to what is a decent living wage in that part of the world.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Well, forget about Yon Lu or whoever, pretty soon it'll be Billy Joe in Alabama. Hyundai announced that'll be the site for its US plant.

    Escape and Focus launches were botched, Ford employees and dealers readily admit that. I think they have good basic products, but just need to dot a few more "i"s and cross a few more "t"s.

    -juice
  • carseeker4carseeker4 Posts: 228
    Juice:
    Sorry, I have to disagree a bit about the "i" and "t"s on the Tribscape.... I still read the Escape/Tribute problems board. Every other day there is someone NEW out there. And every time I read it, it reinforces my SantaFe decision. Is the Tribscape a good vehicle? Yes, well-designed and it was my choice up until I picked over BOTH the SF and Trib parked next to one another in the parking lot and test drove both (yes, all in broad daylight too!). And, I picked the SF only at the very end of that process when I discovered the interior quality was better, the tolerances were better, the doors closed more "solidly" and everything from the engine compartment to the retractable cargo cover were more thoughtfully designed and had better materials! I thought that if Hyundai could build a car like this, that it was worth taking the Hyundai plunge. Time will tell. Anyway... I think failing engines/transmissions and the incredibly nagging stalling problems are MORE than dotted i's and crossed t's. Ask any Tribscape owner who has been through those problems. (Sorry for venting, scape2 got me going with the "Yon Lu" post, revealing a number of issues there, not the least of which is being blind to the failures of the American automobile industry in the past 20 years).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I think Ford is close, and has a good basic product that just needs some more quality control.

    The SF is a heavy vehicle, so maybe that's why you feel it's more substantial. Still, Hyundai ought to look at ways to make it lighter, so that it's quicker and more fuel efficient. The Sedona has the same problem.

    -juice
  • carseeker4carseeker4 Posts: 228
    Ford is good on the design, but got a ways to go on quality. You've heard of the ignition key sticking in the ignition of the Focus, I suppose!
    You're right the SF is a heavy vehicle and that helps its solid feel - and probably its GOOD IIHS saftey rating (as opposed to the Tribscape's Marginal rating). I don't think Hyundai will want to give up that safety rating to lighten the SF. The solid doors may have had to do with the steel crossmember in the doors (which adds weight). But so much of the SF had more quality, and that had nothing to do with weight. Everything from the smartly-styled interior to the MUCH better design and quality of the retractable cargo cover.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    to get someone spun up about my Yon Lu comment. But, its the TRUTH.... You just sent 19,000 U.S. dollars overseas never to be seen again.. Now, I know I am going to get hammered on my so called blind American loyalty.. OK I am loyal to my fellow American, I don't want to see him or her out of a job, whats wrong with that?? Besides, South Koreans are extremly loyal to their workers and UNIONS, yes they have unions in South Korea. There was an article in a Business week about a year ago about how closed Korean markets are to U.S. goods, and how it is a big no no to buy anything other than a Korean car or product, no Japanese, Euro, or American, or Russian... Its status quo and a social norm NOT to buy imported goods. This article was educational and I will not touch a Korean vehicle until they allow free and fair trade with ALL countries.
  • mad0865mad0865 Posts: 176
    Sorry, can't agree with anyone on the Ford quality issue. I own a '98 Taurus 3.0SE (wife's car), and man, that is one solid vehicle. Been to the dealer once for an a/c hose, and that's it besides usual maintenance. Ford really botched the TriScape issue, but look at their other vehicles. Edmunds just rated the Explorer the #1 off-road midsize SUV. They make good cars, just think that the Escape was a little 'rushed' in my opinion (yeah Juice, dotted i's and crossed t's).
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,927
    This thread (the politics/open borders/union part) is better suited for the News and Views Board. Thanks,

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yes, that's what I meant. 200hp, light weight, good space, value price...there are close IMO.

    Forester also got a good rating, and it's much lighter. Lots of light, compact cars do well (Beetle, for example). To me it's a bigger accomplishment to be light and still score well.

    Hmm, Ford was run by European bosses for a long time (Alex Trotten IIRC). They even trained employees to use English spelling, i.e. colour instead of color. Customers' money paid for that labour, even though it was your neighbour working on the assembly line.

    Then Jac Nasser (another non-american) had his stint. Clay Ford Jr. takes over and basically battles with his own maternal great-grandfather's american-owned company Firestone, and you're supposed to feel patriotic?

    Jeep is german owned now. Subaru's biggest shareholder is GM. And it looks like DCX has a small stake in Hyundai that might be increased. So tracing where the money goes is extremely difficult.

    -juice
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    Firestone is owned by Bridgestone, a Japanese company. Before John Lampe took over as CEO of Firestone (after the bandini hit the fan) the CEO was Japanese. Firestone as it exists today has nothing in common with Harvey Firestone's company except the name. There are no Firestone's involved in the company.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Thanks, but that just goes to prove my point - tracing the ownership of a company is extremely difficult.

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Posts: 4,423
    It's been my experience that the auto review industry in general pays little or no attention to reliability when rating a new vehicle. Consumer Reports is the notable exception and even CR rarely criticizes but merely withholds its coveted "recommended" designation until a model's reliability can be established.

    -Frank P.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    True, they're not owning it long-term or paying for repairs. Plus they have dozens of "loaners" if it needs service. They're also not paying for gas most of the time, so mileage is only a tiny factor.

    -juice
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