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Porsche 911 vs. Corvette Z06

circlewcirclew Posts: 8,382
edited March 9 in Chevrolet
I am interested in any feedback on this comparo because I am in the market for one of these 2 icons and appreciate any direction from owners or anyone in the know regarding the +/- of each.

Thanks and Regards,
OW

Comments

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    What, the ELLPS forum wasn't keeping you busy enough? ;)

    To answer your question: scalpel vs. sledgehammer. Both of these "icons" will thrill you with performance, but they go about it very differently. Chevy is all about raw quantity - 7 liters, 3 foot wide tires, enough torque to tow a train car. Porsche is all about refined quality - the 911S coupe has been tested at 0-60 in 3.9 seconds, downright amazing performance out of 3.8 liters, 355 hp and 295 ft lbs of torque. Heck, some of the ELLPS almost match that power on paper, but come nowhere near that performance.

    I have a high school buddy who has a Z06. He's always been into the American muscle car thing. He is absolutely as happy as a pig in mud. And the tire smoking perforamance of his car is extraordinary. But its night and day from the refinement of a 911.

    You better spend a fair amount of time test driving both of these and taking a personality test before buying one. ;)
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,382
    ELLPS is real fun but I want to start thinking of my weekend dream machine.

    I always liked the Vette and thought the C6 ititeration as a huge improvement. On the other hand, I have been interested (since you have been describing your drives in the 911) in what Porsche offers as well. The 911T sounds like an ultimate instrument to experience nirvana.

    I feel you are right in your comparo and it really depends on the ultimate experience as the goal I will be considering. Two different animals suggest different conclusions.

    I, too, have a pineing for the U.S. Muscle of Old and the Z epitomizes this, IMO. I did like the 300 SRT8 I test drove and the surprising effect of that package. Old muscle, yes, but no true sports car.

    I will heed your advice and submit to the personality test both before and during the testing sequence!
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    Didn't look to see your location but outside Las Vegas in
    Pahrump there is a Corvette driving school and here in the
    Bay Area the Skip Barber driving school has 911s in the
    inventory of rides. Test drives are fun but not really
    going to let you experience the performance of either so
    going to a school, there are many across the country, might
    be your ticket and you would come out a better driver for
    that kind of performance anyway. The number of folks that
    have stuffed Z06s is growing weekly, not sure about 911s.

    Good Luck,
    Randy
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,382
    starrow68,

    That's a great idea. I heard of some bad endings with Viper owners as well. I will check to see closet to my central NJ location.

    Regards,
    OW
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    BTW, Skip Barber schools are all over the country, I think.
    http://www.racingadventures.com/ This looks like they do
    Vettes pretty close to you at Summit Point. There is
    another outfit out of Roebling raceway in GA but I don't
    know either directly. From the sites it looks like they
    are still using the C5 Z06 which to me is not surprising,
    I don't know of any that are using the C6 Z06 other than
    Spring Mountain Raceway in Pahrump, NV. Then again close
    is relative and Las Vegas is usually a good place to fly
    into compared to some.
    Randy
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,382
    Randy,

    Thanks. This looks good. c5 is good enough to understand what the corvette will provide. The content looks good so I can learn a lot as well as experience with the car. I will check out GA.

    Regards,
    OW
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    Hate to put any dampers on things, but this is usually a
    case of watch out what you wish for. I got my Vette in my
    mid 50's and after a couple years found driving schools, 3
    years later I now do some instruction on track and as with
    many others am hooked ;).

    Enjoy!
    Randy
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,382
    Thanks, Randy. Sounds like you've found your passion!

    Regards,
    OW
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    Sorry for my ignorance but I keep hearing ELLPS but no idea what it means. I guess I've been out of the US to long.
  • Every time I read a car comparason test involving the Corvette and a Porsche, I find myself asking the same question: Why doesn't Porsche make a production car that is as fast as the Corvette??? I think this is a legitimate question worthy of a little debate. Especially when you consider that at 3 times the price, the Porsche is still slower.

    With all that german engineering and racing heritage, it makes no sense to me that they don't put something on the road that will compete with the Corvette.

    The latest article that triggered this thought was the Lightning Lap comparison at VIR in the latest Car and Driver.

    What say ye, Porsche-philes?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    What to believe? I'm looking right at a Motor Trend compasion test of the 2005 Corvette Z51 and the 911S coupe. It shows the 355 hp 911S beating or matching the 400 hp Corvette in every measured performance category:

    0-60: 4.2 vs. 4.4 seconds
    1/4 mile: 12.6 each
    60-0 Braking: 106 vs. 113 feet
    100-0 braking: 299 vs. 321 feet
    600 ft slalom: 70.1 vs. 68.9 mph
    200 ft skidpad: 0.97 vs. 0.96 g's

    When you look at the above figures, they are damn near identical. But what isn't are the subjective qualities of one vs. the other.

    Some of Motor Trends quotes pretty much tell the story as far as my preferences go:

    "Within the first few miles, you'll notice the Corvette simply can't match the delicacy and fluency of the Porsche's controls. The 911's gerashift operates with the oily precision of a rifle-bolt, the pedels are perfectly placed, and you can steer it with your fingertips. By comparson, the Corvette is... (I won't incite you, but the M/T comments were not very flattering)"

    There is no doubt that the Corvette is a fine car and offers a hell of a lot of brutish bang for not a lot of bucks. And if that's all you are looking for, look no further. But not everybody employs the sledgehammer approach to driving and there is omething to be said for the precise feel of a 911. Or a $32k Honda S2000 for that matter.

    A golfing buddy of mine has bought/built 4 new homes in the last 15 years. Each and every one bigger than the last. First thing out of his mouth when we asked him about his most recent move: "it's 7,200 square feet!". Most of us are too polite to point out that it has all of the architectural quality of a megabox-McMansion. But for him, it's all about quantity - and something like Frank Lloyd Wright's Fallingwater is beyond his comprehension.

    Again, don't take my comments the wrong way. The Corvette is a heck of a value in many ways. Just not for me. I haven't seen the comparison you refer to, but I suspect it would take professional drivers on a closed track to test 80% of the performance capability of a 911 GT3 or Turbo. But I see, touch and hear the quality of my 911S every time I fire it up. I'm not prepared to give that up, no matter how much faster a Chevy or Ford might happen to be.
  • With all that german engineering and racing heritage, it makes no sense to me that they don't put something on the road that will compete with the Corvette.

    What "roads" do you drive on? I had to take my 911 Turbo to a private runway just to begin to test its acceleration. Got it up to 135-140 in 3/8 mile and it was still pushing me back in my seat. I've taken two performance driving courses from BMW and Porsche, and there are no "roads" I've found where I can safely test 50% of my car's capability. So, as far as I'm concerned, Porsche has already put more car on the road than anyone, including Schumacher, could ever expect to use without getting a 20 year jail sentence.

    Perhaps the question you should be asking is, if Chevy is so accomplished when it comes to "speed", why can't they put something on a real race track that competes with Porsche or Ferrari in Formula One. I know they are the king of the redneck beer-gut GM sponsored (foreign car prohibited) Nascar series. But going counterclockwise around a banked oval track isn't exactly what any sober person with a triple digit IQ would consider the pinnacle of driving or racing. That's about as brainless as world championship wrestling. Rather, how about a Formula One road course like Monaco, where you actually have to turn the wheel both ways and exhibit some driving skills that don't involve ramming your opponents?

    Believe it or not, I'd actually like to see an American manufacturer step up to the level of Porsche and Ferrari. But, so long as they cater to the Nascar and muscle car types, they will never come close.
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    It's too bad your view is so limited. Between Speed World
    Challenge and Rolex GT the Corvette privateers of the world
    are doing nicely against the factory backed Porsches with
    professional drivers. And that is with performance adjustments
    to downgrade the Corvette whenever it gets past some of the
    factory cars. Last year in SWC the Porsche's ran with out
    of spec brakes for half the season and the rule body decided
    after the fact to allow them, no penalty. Heck in Rolex,
    SCCA doesn't even want the private financed Vettes to run
    with the Factory backed Pontiacs.
    Then again there is FIA racing in Europe and the C6's are
    doing well, again not factory backed. There is talk of C6's
    running in GT 2 in ALMS next year, we can only hope.

    On a more personal scale, I'm glad you have put your car on
    track. The Porsche, while much harder to get to the limits
    than a Vette, is a great car on track. Since you like the
    R&T article, also try the current Car and Driver comparison
    of similar priced track cars. Both the C6 coupe and Z06
    come out best in their categories, and it seems there is a
    question or two about the 'value' in the Porsches.
    Randy

    Hope to see you on track some day, I'll wave as I pass ... ;)
  • All very interesting but you totally dodged my question. (please re-read question)

    The VIR test mixes up drivers and cars and comes up with what I believe is a very meaningful result. This as opposed to simply an acceleration run or some bogus lane change maneuver.

    So the from the standpoint of the total package (power, handling, grip) , the base model Corvette beats both the GT3 and the turbo (not to mention what the Z06 does).

    I have some ideas as to what is going on here but wanted to hear some other peoples take on this.
  • Seems to me that you got slightly off topic there with the F1/Nascar thing. But, while you are on the subject, I did attend all the US Grand Prix races at Indy. With very few exceptions they were an overwhelming bore. This year there were no passes for the lead, cars starting 1-2-3-4 finished 1-2-3-4. It was nothing but a parade. 10 minutes into the race, I began looking at my watch wondering when it would all be over. The format is all wrong for exciting racing. The cars are great, the drivers are excellent, but the end result is blah.

    NASCAR can turn even a road race into something interesting (Watkins Glen, Sonoma)

    But getting back to the original question, what's up with the VIR results?
  • OK, what I should have said was the base model Corvette beat the top level Porsche Turbo. It did not beat the GT3. That was left for the Z06.

    But, I think the evidence is there that suggests the Porsche falls down in handling through the corners and perhaps a power curve that is not broad enough.

    If you look at the top speeds, the Porsche has that covered, as it should based on max HP numbers. So the Corvettes had to really make up some time in the turns. It makes me wonder if the rear engine layout is at the root of this?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Rather than "wondering" about Porsche's rear engine layout, you might want to check if Car and Driver's heads were in their rear ends when they came up with their results. In a slightly less "staged" environment, both the GT3 and 911 Turbo have posted considerably better lap times at Nurburgring than any Corvette:

    Best Nurburgring Track Times

    7:28 - 166.652 km/h - Porsche Carrera GT
    7.39 - 161.575 km/h - Porsche 997 GT3
    7:40 - 161.217 km/h - Porsche 997 Turbo
    7:42 - 160.519 km/h – Ford GT
    7:42.9 - 160.207 km/h - Corvette Z06
    7:59 - 154.822 km/h - Corvette C6 Z51, company test driver Dave Hill

    You don't think Car and Driver gets more advertising dollars from GM/Chevy than Porsche, now do you?? :confuse:
  • redsoxgirlredsoxgirl Posts: 67
    Even Car and Driver concluded their "Lightening Lap" with the comment:

    In truth, the Z06 wasn’t as satisfying to drive as the 911 GT3.

    And frankly, that says just as much or more than their particlar weekend track times. Especially when you consider that their results, as habitat's post indicates, are inconsistent with Nurburgring results and many other road tests and competitive rack results.

    For what it's worth, my brother and a few of his racing school friends have been approached several times by Car and Driver and the other auto magazines to participate in such "competitive" road tests, including at VIR. Only in rare cases has he done so, because they generally reject his condition that they allot adequate time for ample practice laps with each car and that they publish the full results of his best times with each. So, what do they do instead: take a mix of drivers with widely varying skills and limited experience with each car and put everyone together for a wild weekend at the track.

    I'm not trying to discredit Car and Driver in particular. Most of the other monthly magazines do the same thing. But I would suggest that if you are hanging your hat on C&D track results to tell you which is the better sports car, your hat is on the ground, getting muddy. Take some professional driving courses yourself drive each/every option and make your own decision. That's waht I did, and I don't have any regrets.
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    " ... comment:

    In truth, the Z06 wasn’t as satisfying to drive as the 911 GT3.

    And frankly, that says just as much or more than ... "

    Problem is that for the rest of us $ do make a difference
    when it comes to satisfaction. With the base Corvette being
    advertised on radio here in the SF Bay Area at $40k this AM,
    I could add Z51 and still come out less than $42k. What in
    the 911 world competes, that isn't a decade or more old?
    Sure I know a guy who got a write up in Classic Motorsports
    with his 911 '72 RS Clone that is lots faster than my stock
    engine C5 coupe but I enjoy the driving, not the work to
    keep a heavily modded P Car on track. Mag articles are all
    about fantasy, and for most the 911, especially with turbos
    is just that, a fantasy. For those that make the leap to
    the $70k range and get a Z06 instead of the base 911, they
    seem to have a performance deal too. That is of course if
    you want the performance and not just 'satisfaction'.
    Randy
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    test drive both on your favorite road (if they let you) and you make the call. They are different and not cheap so don't listen to any of us. I don't care my 911 is slower than a Z06. In fact, my 911 is slower than my Chrysler 300C SRT8. I wanted a 911 since I was 10 and it's all matter to me.
  • In fact, my 911 is slower than my Chrysler 300C SRT8.

    Is your 911 missing a cylinder? The Chrysler is competitive with my unmodified 2003 M5, but certainly not with the 911S's that I have driven.
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    I have a non S Cab.

    Porsche website
    Non S Cab: 5.0sec
    S Cab: 4.7sec

    Car and Driver/ Road & Track
    300C SRT8: 4.7sec
  • Porsche website: C2S Coupe: 4.6 sec

    C&D/R&T/Motor Trend: 3.9 to 4.3 sec; average 4.1-4.2.

    Assuming a similar level of conservatism in Porsche's non S Cab figures, you should still be at or ahead of the Chrysler. But, as you implied, there is a lot more to the 911 ownership experience than drag racing against a GM or Chrysler muscle car.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,382
    I test drove an 300C SRT-8 and found it satisfying for a large car but decided to go with a 330xi for my daily driver. At least I am getting better gas mileage/better handling! My CFO has one and he is delighted.

    I will take your advice regarding the test drives...I think a test drive will be easier at both marquees now that credit has tightened and sales are down for big ticket toys and Mc Mansions.

    BTW, I wanted a Vette since I was 10 and I'm glad I waited! In terms of sheer appearance, the C6 Vette does it for me in the looks department.

    The 911 has to be built better and if at all like a BMW, the drive has to be at a much more refined/precise level. But I will see...

    Regards,
    OW
  • my 997 Cab is my daily driver. I only use the CSRT8 when I need to buy some larger items. My wife's R Class is the family mover.

    "The 911 has to be built better and if at all like a BMW, the drive has to be at a much more refined/precise level. But I will see... "

    I think Porsche's built quality is as good (if not better) than BMW or other German autos. Our R already went to the shop 3 times for electronics issue since we got it last December. We also have some minor issues with the 2001 330CI we used to have.
This discussion has been closed.