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Jeep Grand Cherokee

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  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    I had it loaded down with passengers and cargo the last 2 weeks in a row. The 2 full size adults and 1 child that sat in the back stated that it was very comfortable. The ~200 lbs cargo did not even change the outside appearance of how it sat. I never intended to take it off-road so that makes no difference.

    With all the problems I hear about on here and from personal friends concerning the JGC, I am sure glad I don't have one. I would hate to spend that much time in the shop without my vehicle.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,569
    As we've said, a little off-topic drift is normal. However, this isn't a comparison discussion any more than it's a "problems" one. Seems like people are getting their backs up a little much.

    Did I mention there are Nissan, Honda & Toyota "problems" discussions? The CR-V one in the Owner's Club comes to mind off-hand. I know the Van ones better (Quest & Odyssey have them for sure - the Sienna one can be found by searching for "sludge"). No real point here, other than anything mechanical is going to need maintenance at some time in its life.

    Steve
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  • nikiblue1nikiblue1 Posts: 44
    To: bigorange30 I believe you have made your point (I agree with you on numerous points you have mentioned). People who want the true opinions collected over time will go to consumer report and edmunds.com long term review and read for themselves. There are numerous positive reviews out there from various magazines, BUT unfortunately they only review the test drive side of the SUV--truck trends raves about the power and off road capability of JGC (They called it a 4x4 of the year). We all know the truth, all we have to do is go to the magazine rack, pick up a consumer report yearly review and read it.

    Fishrxman, I couldn't have said it better. "Tons of valuable information about owning a Jeep can be found through the posts here. The valuable posts have specific information and clear, thoughtful replies. Look back at the NAMES of those making posts. It is shameful for anyone to make off the wall comments without backing. You can tell which posts are worth reading and which should be entirely ignored."
  • tloke1tloke1 Posts: 185
    From DetroitNews.com, June 28, 2002:

    "In March, Chrysler led Detroit automakers in Consumer Reports magazine's annual product reliability survey...Components are being shared across product lines and among DaimlerChrysler affiliates Mercedes-Benz, Mitsubishi Motors Corp. and Hyundai Motor Co. Suppliers are being held to higher quality standards as well."
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,569
    Interesting story - here's the link.

    Steve
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    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

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  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    The last 5 paragraphs have been exactly my points. I hope the improvements they look like their making will stick. It will take 3-5 years to tell. I may be looking at a Chrylser product if it does. They certainly have had the best designed (shape and form) cars for several years.
  • tloke1tloke1 Posts: 185
    And that's what I have been trying to convey all along here in my recent posts, that Chrysler/Jeep has steadily improved from 1994 to date. That's what the ratings show in Consumer Reports, each and every year has gotten better and better. And Why would it "take 3-5 (more) years to tell" when the proof of improvement is right there in front of us for the past 8 model years?
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    Those red circles turn to black as the vehicle gets older. Why do you think that on every make listed in CR, there are more black circles on older models than new ones? Do you think that every car manufacturer is improving the same amount? There is no objective, unbiased evidence that DC has "impoved over the last 8 year". If they are embarking on a new effort as the article indicates, maybe things will begin to change. DC even states themselves that it will take 5 years to overtake Toyota and 2 years to overtake Ford and GM. Therefore, they're admitting they are deficient to at least those 3.

    Are you not willing to admit what DC is willing to admit?
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    as I've stated before. In general, the JGC has more issues. The differences tend to be niggling things such as rotors, noises, etc. The up-front cost differences to get into something that historically should not have any niggling issues is substantial (and then are you going to cry like a baby when you need rotors anyway?). For the million plus of them on the road, I can't remember the last time I saw one sitting on the side of the road. I'm doing 40K-50K miles per year on the highway and in general what you see broken down are 10-15 year old vehicles. Probably early 90's Taurus is the top vehicle I see stranded. Followed closely by middle 80's Hondas. Last time I took my Jeep in for service, there was one (first generation) JGC in the service garage. If they are as terrible as bigorange and others would have you believe the service garages would be backed up and tow trucks would be lining up to get in. You realize how many of these are on the roads? Just look around. My biggest reason I don't like the JGC is because there are so many of them on the road, it's like driving a Camry or Accord: you pass yourself on every corner.

    Reliability aside, the JGC is a better vehicle to be used as designed. Power, capability, good room for it's size, doesn't drive like a boat, comfortable ride height but still class leading ground clearance, and darn good lookes compared to most of the mini-van looking SUV's. You have to go to a full-size to get the "utility" of the JGC.

    I can't see getting all boo-hoo about reliability anymore. My Tacoma needed shocks, rotors, and pads at 30K, and a new A/C system at 50K. Still a nice vehicle, but that's probably a lemon to some folks around here.. I'd have been pretty ticked if the only reason I bought that truck was to hit 200K without ever doing a thing to it. My current Jeep had the rotors replaced under warranty at 25K and that's it. Approaching 50K miles now but think I'm about due for pads. So actually I'm ahead of my Tacoma as far as problems although I just don't worry about that too much. In the last 10 years I've put close to 500K miles on various domestic and imports and have yet to have one not start beyond a dead battery. I can't imagine driving 15K miles per year and worrying about reliability issues with any vehicle produced today. The only thing I may not buy would be a first year Ford. If I like it I'm going to buy it, I don't care who makes it. Just so it does the job I want.

    And the first thing I'd do to the Q is replace the power antenna with a fixed mast. I smacked a tree branch with mine yesterday going down an alley and thought of bigorange. I've had power antennas back when they were popular and never again. Put three of them on my Camry and that's a stinking car that never seen anything but paved roads.
  • Well I guess I need to throw my hat into the ring with a few thoughts regarding the detailed analysis of ratings, reliability etc that I have read in previous posts.

    I have never consulted Consumer Reports prior to the purchase of any asset that I have owned. Never. Not for a car, computer, camera - nothing. Yet, I have never owned a lemon, had recurrent problems or resented a purchase. I think CR is about is unbiased and scientific as the last presidential election. Its just not true. Far too many factors, far too much at stake.

    I do spend a great deal of time speaking with owners and consulting sites such as this. In viewing the many posts on JGC one thing I dont understand is the need to continuously compare without accomplishing improvement. Its almost like the Manhatten project in concept - build the best big stick. Have we not moved forward ?

    As an American consumer I dont care in the least if the Honda, Nissan, Lexus, Acura etc are better or worse in comparison. While I understand I am only one opinion on this discussion group it is the view I hold. Thats because I dont ever plan to look at one or purchase one. The only worthy competitor to offroad use that Jeep has internationally appears to be the Landrover products.

    DC has offered a 3/36 plus a 7/100 warranty. Why worry ? Why stress ? Just drive it, its a machine and machines have issues. All of them.

    One thing I know for sure. In my years working mountain rescue and being an avid outdoorsmen nothing makes me laugh more than the multitude of SUV;s on the road that are driven by people that will never take them off road or use their capabilities. Thats just fine since most of them wouldnt make it. Most of the SUV's are perfect for occassional bad weather (although even needing 4WD for that is questionable) and otherwise look great at the mall and at the office as a nice alternative to the mini-van.

    I have a friend who recently bought a CRV. Off road. Sure whatever. Maybe if its on a flatbed and sebring is towing it behind. He belives however that it will work. And who am I to tell him it wont - CR rated it very highly.

    Have we reached quality improvement ? Not yet, because our individual needs are so significantly different.

    Enjoying the discussion, and the debate.

    paramedic99
  • erickplerickpl Posts: 2,735
    I'm not sure how much you know about xm, so forgive me if I go a bit basic.


    It is basically satellite radio. By default, most stereos won't pick it up. To get it you have two options:


    1. Get an aftermarket stereo that has XM capability built in. You will need an external XM tuner.

    2. Get a RF modulation system (Sony, Alpine, Pioneer, and others) that basically hook into your factory stereo head unit and you listen via a radio frequency. You will still need the external XM tuner.


    I wanted to avoid the RF if I could, though I have it in my BMW and it sounds GREAT. I just like the idea of having the xm unit with the head unit. My wife and I love the stock look and would like to keep that without having to go to a DIN size stereo like an Alpine. GM and DC like using the big fat stereos and I was hoping there would be a 1.5 DIN that has XM ready to go.


    I have pics of the RF unit (at least the display of it) at: http://community.webshots.com/user/skimblz_ if you want to get a better idea of what it looks like.


    -Paul

  • tloke1tloke1 Posts: 185
    QUOTE from Sebring95:
    "Reliability aside, the JGC is a better vehicle to be used as designed. Power, capability, good room for it's size, doesn't drive like a boat, comfortable ride height but still class leading ground clearance, and darn good lookes compared to most of the mini-van looking SUV's...

    Nicely stated, Sebring95, 100% true. Last night I took a long look through the QX4 board here on Edmunds. Amazing how many posts there are about problems owners have had with the QX4, including one owner who had his in the shop the 28 of the first 30 days he owned it.

    It just amazes me when folks like BigOrange30 trash the JGC (after owning just ONE for a short time I might add) and buy something they claim is "much more reliable" - yet among his own posts over in the QX4 forum are interweaved plenty of people who have had their QX4's in the shop for a WIDE variety of problems. Like Paramedic99 said, "its a machine and machines have issues. All of them." The key word here is "ALL".

    I have owned plenty of cars in the past that Consumer Reports has trashed and in almost every single case I have not had the problems or issues or quirks that they have reported about. The advantages the Jeep Grand Cherokee has FAR outweigh any problems one might encounter, which reading posts from a lot of 2001 and 2002 Jeep owners is extremely minimal and NO DIFFERENT from any other brand out there.
  • beach15beach15 Posts: 1,305
    Being a well known ex-owner of a 2000 Chrysler 300M that was nothing short of misery, I thought I'd share this small detail about our neighbor's Grand Cherokee Limited.

    He has a 99' Chevy Silverado and his wife has a 99' Grand Cherokee Limited 4wd V8 with Quadra-Drive, Sedona with Camel leather. Talking with my father one day about our Avalance he mentioned how he used to work for Chrysler some years back. Going on he said they've had several problems with it since new coupled with less than stellar service, the exact opposite of his Silverado. But, I digress.

    Knowing what a commonly problematic combination they have (99' LTD V8 with Quadra-Drive), I could only imagine what had gone wrong so far. Then today I heard what sounded like a large diesel truck in their driveway and went out for a look. What was going on? It was a large flat bead and after having rolled the Jeep out of the garage, I watched them pull it up on the back and drive away. Jee, another shocker (yeah right!).

    We spoke to him again this afternoon and he said that when he went out this morning it wouldn't start and after having pumped the gas pedal a few times it still wouldn't (don't even begin to ask me why he would do such a thing to a fuel-injected vehicle!). One of the problems they had happen before was with the fuel pump but it wasn't ever really figured out and he was told it was some electronic glitch. Well, I guess that could be, as that was the only thing the -1* Chrysler dealer would tell us about our 300M on one of its many all-day visits.

    The 300M was a story in and of its own (the 300M board guys aren't to fond of me!), and now I know our neighbors have to go through the same crap as we did for more than a year and a half.

    Ah, what a nice life it is to finally have a FLAWLESS vehicle! It's so great to have something that never makes you worry or has to go in all the time for more and more annoyances or defects. We traded the 300M back in March for a 2002 Chevy Avalanche Z66 by the way.

    I've ridden in a friend's 99' Laredo before and found it quite nice, and they don't seem to be having much of any problems. It's good to know Chrysler is getting better and better with each year, but I don't think we'll be going for another ever again!
  • tloke1tloke1 Posts: 185
    Quote by Beach15:
    "Ah, what a nice life it is to finally have a FLAWLESS vehicle! It's so great to have something that never makes you worry or has to go in all the time for more and more annoyances or defects. We traded the 300M back in March for a 2002 Chevy Avalanche Z66 by the way."

    Let me get this straight - the Chevy Avalanche that you JUST bought 3 months ago you consider a "flawless vehicle", the one that you bought to replace the problematic 300M? Are you kidding? While I think it is amazing that it has not been in the shop for the first 3 months you have owned it, you will most likely see the repair shop just as often as you did with your 300M. The Avalanche has had more than its share of problems, include some serious ones like engine oil consumption and engine knocking. Not to mention side door problems, water leaks, lock cylinder problems, slipping tranny, AC problems, leaking transmissions, radio problems and more. Like the new and very problematic Trailblazer, I don't see the Avalanche being that great reliabilty-wise either. BOTH of these new 2002 vehicles have far more problems than the 2002 Jeeps.

    What amazes me is all the people that post on this board that have had one problem vehicle, like your neighbor's Jeep and your 300M, and then because of that experience, "ALL" similar brand vehicles are stereotyped as "unreliable" - yet the vehicles you folks are replacing the "bad ones" with are just as unreliable or have had (or will have) just as many problems as your previous vehicles! I don't get it. But, I can say this Beach15, my guess is that you will soon be posting all of your new problems on the Avalache board and a year or two from now will trade it in for "something more reliable".
  • Thanks for the link and the information. I now understand what you mean. One would think DC was on board with this - isnt this offered in the mercedes line ???
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,569
    There are also some "early adopters/enthusiasts" hanging out on the XM Radio board.

    Steve
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  • kkuligkkulig Posts: 150
    I know what a nightmare it can be when dealing with a vehicle that has many problems. It's stressful to say the least. Not to mention the lack of trust you have in it to take you where you need to go.

    Reliability is every bit as important to me as it is to all of you. That's why I drive the JGC... for me, it's the best snow vehicle out there. Yes, I had a bad one. No, it didn't turn me off on this brand. I didn't let one bad experience turn me off on this vehicle, or on DC in its entirety.

    I worked with my dealer to get the vibration problem fixed on my 98. They made several serious and honest attempts to fix this with no success. I certainly can't blame them for not trying. I can't blame DC for not standing behind their product either. They bought it back without question and gave me a fantastic deal on a new 99 to boot. I figured that if my dealer and DC were willing to make the effort to make things right, keep me as a customer, and stand behind their product like that, then I'm going to continue driving a JGC. Two JGC's later, I've had absolutely no regrets on that decision.

    Prior to owning my first JGC in 93, I considered myself a GM person. That's all I ever drove. I've certainly had my share of problems with them too. Yet I still liked them and continued to drive them. Whenever I decide it's time for a new vehicle, I always take a serious look at the Tahoe because I like them and the extra room would be nice (I won't even waste my time looking at a Blazer/Trailblazer). I always come back to the JGC. The overall quality and available features still beats anything the Tahoe has to offer... and for about $4-5K less.

    I also take into consideration that I've been driving JGC's and servicing them through one dealer exclusively since 93. None of my JGC's have ever "broken down" and left me stranded. I'm not saying that could never happen. But I'm comfortable with the vehicle and my service department's ability to fix any problem that may arise. I know what my JGC is/isn't capable of and I'm aware of all of its characteristics. None of these are so earth shattering that they can't be dealt with, or makes me want to switch to a different brand of vehicle. I'm not dealing with any more issues here than I would be if I was driving something else.

    Like tloke1, I'm amazed at all the "one problem vehicle" posters out here too. I'm not putting anyone down for that, and you truly have my sympathy. I believe these people are victims of the "law of averages" (I was one too) more than anything else. That could've happened no matter what you bought. I know that's no consolation and it's no excuse for a poorly built, individual vehicle. But, I believe the vast majority of JGC owners are happy. At least the ones I know are.

    I also get the impression that there are a few posters out here who never have owned a JGC. Why they're posting in this particular thread is even more amazing to me. Their opinions and credibility carry zero weight and that's why the people that are truly interested in the JGC need to read between the lines and weed out the "no-experience" comments.

    I don't waste my time either with what CR or any other publication has to say. Those opinions are subject to the personal preferences of the individual writers and I don't think it's a real world reflection on the vehicle itself. I also don't trust anybody's opinion when it's a job they're getting paid to do. Money creates biased opinions.
  • kkuligkkulig Posts: 150
    I really like the concept of the satellite radio system. Plenty of times that local radio stations have nothing worthwhile to listen to or no imagination to vary their play lists.

    Of the two formats currently being offered (XM and Sirius), I believe the XM format is the way to go. Cheaper subscription, more features, variety and most importantly, the availability across more of the country. Sirius is behind schedule on start-up and is/was having a cashflow problem. Their subscription fee is higher.

    In the 02 JGC brochure, I see they have a satellite radio option as a MOPAR aftermarket accesory add-on. Works through your factory radio I believe with a RF hookup, but displays the channels/info right through the factory radio dial. Unfortunately, it's the Sirius format. I wonder if the option is even available through a dealer at this time? Or how long it'll be a viable format if Sirius can't stay afloat? Makes me hesitate to go this route and invest the money if it isn't going to be around down the road.
  • erickplerickpl Posts: 2,735
    Kkulig, Steve is probably right. Maybe we should continue on the XM Radio board, which I also post on.

    But I'll make this quick, Steve. :) GM is offering XM on a good chunk of their 03 line coming out soon, so yes manufacturers are getting on board.

    I like the idea of RF using the stock head unit on the 02's. Wonder if it would work with 2000 model or if I would have to replace with a 2002 head unit. If THAT is the case, I'd just as soon go aftermarket with a 1.5 DIN. :)

    -Paul
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,569
    It's ok to keep talking about XM here - I just wanted everyone to know there are some diehard fans elsewhere too (and there's some good links in the XM board that may be of interest).

    Steve
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  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Just returned a creampuff JCL 99 V8 QD to the leasing company. Thought I'd share a tale of the most reliable car in the world.

    Car 1 - Honda Accord just got bought back under the lemon law.

    Car 2 - Honda Accord tranny failure after 2 years.

    Imaging the chagrin of the people who bought the two most reliable cars in the world. Anecdotal stories don't do very well - they are after all machines. They break down just as we do.

    I will submit Japanese car manufactures do build good cars, but they are all machines nevertheless.
  • tloke1tloke1 Posts: 185
    This is what DC is offering in the new 2003 Grand Cherokee, info from a JGC web site:

    New AM/FM/CD stereo with built-in NAV - DVD based NAV system with display screen features just one disc for all of U.S.A. and parts of Canada. Single slot CD player with CD changer controls (11-disc total capacity). Sirius Satellite Radio® capable ($1795 MSRP).

    New Sirius Satellite Radio System (MSRP $299 + install, available November 25th).

    I suppose if Sirius ends up having financial problems and doesn't make it DC will have to switch over to XMS.
  • tloke1tloke1 Posts: 185
    QUOTE from Ericpl:
    "I like the idea of RF using the stock head unit on the 02's. Wonder if it would work with 2000 model or if I would have to replace with a 2002 head unit. If THAT is the case, I'd just as soon go aftermarket with a 1.5 DIN. :)"

    The Mopar unit should work fine on your 2000 model JGC as it's designed to work with most Chrysler radios. But I would wait for the new system coming in November that I mentioned in post #1220 above.
  • kkuligkkulig Posts: 150
    Gee, that's a substantial amount of money for a sat-ready (not sat-capable) factory radio. Like I mentioned earlier, I seriously wonder if Sirius will be a viable player in this market. That remains to be seen I guess. I'd sure hate to get stuck with one of their radios and not be able to use it! Both XM and Sirius have web sites... check them out and decide for yourself which one is better.
  • kw_carmankw_carman Posts: 114
    Wow! Honda must have daggers for you. Two bad Honda Accords is just something I've never heard of before.

    Everyone: Can I ask a dumb question? What is a creampuff (as in cars, the food tastes pretty good)? I've heard it used in a variety of ways (ex: rebuilt cars) and am slowly going insane over not knowing what it means. Thanks!
  • kkuligkkulig Posts: 150
    kw_carman, there's no such thing as a dumb question...

    The definition of "cream puff" used as a slang term for a car means "an old, especially secondhand car that's in very good condition."

    I think many people mistakenly apply this term to rebuilt or restored cars. I take the meaning as defined above... applying to an original car in very good condition.
  • OK friends. I did the tow hooks yesterday. Not difficult but not easy either. I bought after market hooks so I needed to drill a hole for the bolts to line up. Nothing like drilling into new steel ! The front bumper and the grill (one piece) must come off first. (5 screws on the grill (do not over tighten when replacing) and 2 10mm bolts on fender. Plus the usual push clips/plugs. Then drop in the hooks, tighten and you are done. TOok around an hour. If you need more information for taking on this job email me.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    DC announced today they are carrying on the 7/100 warranty and effective 7/9/02 the warranty will be transferable to subsequent owners. According to the press release, warranty claims dropped 20% during this last model year, and 50% since 1996. Just some FYI for those that are interested. Covers Engines, Transmissions, Trasfer Cases, and Axles.
  • kkuligkkulig Posts: 150
    Sounds like they're making some progress towards quality improvement despite what others may feel or say. That's always a step in the right direction. Sure love my 02... running great so far!
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