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2008 Subaru Impreza WRX

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Comments

  • aaykayaaykay Posts: 539
    You may counter with the LSD delete but they deleted the LSD from the 2002 Impreza RS, too. Plus they add VDC in its place now.

    The LSD is an actual piece of solid mechanical equipment that transfers power from side-to-side as the situation demands, based on inputs from the sensors. Very useful for high-performance driving, especially in a car like the WRX. I would bet my bottom dollar that they would not be eliminating it from the STI, like they have done with the WRX. Even in the Spec-B, they have retained the LSD, even though they added the VDC....I am certain it includes some creative programming to enable the VDC to function well, with an LSD doing its thing.

    The VDC on the other hand, simply uses the sensors in the existing hardware (4-wheel ABS sensors etc), adds a couple of additional sensors and brakes individual wheels or cuts engine power as needed, using software/firmware driven logic. Much cheaper for a manufacturer to implement (especially since most of the sensors needed for the VDC to function are already present in a car like the WRX) and seemingly is an excellent marketing tool :) ....also very useful for bad drivers. :P

    Given an either/or kind of situation, I would heavily favor the LSD over the VDC. But if both are available, then I am fine having both, as long as there is a VDC disable switch, which the new Impreza seems to have. ;)
  • rcinmdrcinmd Posts: 139
    Ford Focus on steroids....
    I guess I need to see one in person before I rush out to buy a leftover 2.5i wagon for winter.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    It seems like the Japanese in general are kind of following the BMW 5-series billboard sides, huge flat side panels from the skirt to the window.

    Also, whats with making cars so high up? My Legacy wagon (not-outback) is 2" higher than my 90s Accord. The WRX can almost drive over the Accord (slight exaggeration) and this is a sports sedan.

    As much as I want to feel European and be practical, I have always liked the WRX sedan more than the wagon and it seems like I still do. I wasn't in the market for an STI anyway so thats not going to affect my life.

    I do think as the styling gets more bland and they get rid of the technologies and features that differentiate them in the market (LSD), the appeal goes away.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    I do think as the styling gets more bland and they get rid of the technologies and features that differentiate them in the market (LSD), the appeal goes away.

    I agree although the Impreza in itself is actually a very good car and in fact most Subaru's are great cars. The problem is just as you described. I had to get my Hi-Lux an oil change today (7 liters of oil :sick: ) so my wife and I walked around the showroom while we waited. 2 hours for an oil change there, so we grabbed a Jeepney and went to the mall afterwards but we did check out all the 2007 Toyotas in the showroom and they do have models that will never be available for the US market. Now we didn't drive anything, but my wife sat in everything and played with the seats and controls as well as seeing if she could back it up visibility-wise etc... as we will need a car when we get back to the US next year. The Camry here comes loaded with everything but a NAV system and it retails for P2,000,000! :surprise: That converted at todays rate is $43,505.62 USD! :surprise:
    Anyway the reason I mention this is regardless of how the car drives, most don't handle very well, it has one nice interior with power reclining rear seats and all kinds of buttons for the rear seat passengers to control stuff and the leather interior is really, really comfortable. Now this same car in the US is probably about $27K and you can get discounts so it brings it pretty close in price to a WRX which many people have talked about how nice the interior of the WRX is. Now my 2002 WRX was a fun car to drive but not in a million years was the interior anything like the Camry interior.
    So when people and magazine articles say the interior on the WRX is nice I can't picture it being THAT nice. Take away some of the WRX goodies and what you have is an AWD car that's $25K and is quick to 60 and is great in the snow. But I don't see how it's going to compete with other cars in this price range unless they need AWD. That's what Subaru is trying to do, is compete and it's in the same money class as a Camry and Accord and some others. Sure the driving experience is better in the WRX but c'mon how many people are going to notice the good handling when they sit in super plush leather seats and oodles of comfort items? Most people drive their cars like appliances anyway. So if you don't live in snow country the WRX isn't offering as much as it used to and the new interior, well if it's as nice as the Camry they really would sell a lot more of them. When you try to appeal to the mass market you have to provide cushy rides and isolation from the road and reliability and lots of bang for the buck. We don't have any grey market cars here yet, probably in 2-3 weeks we should be seeing them but they have to be converted to left hand drive so that takes time. We had FJ Cruisers before they got to the US.
    If I see one when I am in Manila I will take it for a test drive and see how it really is. Of course it will be the Japanese spec but still close enough.
    The WRX is a niche market car and I sincerely hope it's going to find it's niche again. But no way will it compete with cars like the Camry with the average car buyer IMO.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    By the way the WRX never got the MECHANICAL LSD that the STi had. It walways had the viscous coupled LSD which anyone who knows LSDs knows that the viscous is not nearly as good as a true mechanical LSD. I'm suprised you guys aren't up in arms about that.

    The only Subies to get a mechanical LSD were the SVX and the STi IIRC.

    -mike
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    By the way the WRX never got the MECHANICAL LSD that the STi had. It always had the viscous coupled LSD which anyone who knows LSDs knows that the viscous is not nearly as good as a true mechanical LSD. I'm surprised you guys aren't up in arms about that.

    Ok well, actually I did know about that and sure I expect the STI to have stuff the WRX doesn't. I mean that extra $$$ has to buy something. But if it's not a big deal then why take it out? The only reasons I can think of is cost savings or to make the STI look better, or both.
    I just might look at other subaru models as well but I like sporty, but we'll see. I still am feeling down about the LSD. :(
    But sure the Torsen is much better. Look at all the stuff the STI and EVO will get! But of course the price is high and hard to justify.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    By the way the WRX never got the MECHANICAL LSD that the STi had. It walways had the viscous coupled LSD which anyone who knows LSDs knows that the viscous is not nearly as good as a true mechanical LSD. I'm suprised you guys aren't up in arms about that.

    The only Subies to get a mechanical LSD were the SVX and the STi IIRC.


    While a mechanical LSD would be the best, I would still prefer a TORSEN viscous type to an open diff and some computer retarding the engine output and or grabbing the brakes. I can think of very few occasions where having less power and dragging brakes will make the car perform better.
  • aaykayaaykay Posts: 539
    Actually the one in the SPEC-B is also a mechanical LSD (I believe a Torsen). However, unlike the STI, which gets a mechanical LSD in the front too, the Spec-B has an open diff in the front. Also, unlike the STI which gets a Planetary Gear-based LSD with Electronically controlled transfer clutches in the Center Diff, the Spec-B gets the viscous coupler like all other stick-shifted Subarus.

    One good thing about the 4EAT WRX, the VDC OB and the 5EAT Legacy GT is that they get the same Planetary gear based LSD with the Electronic transfer clutches as the STI. They just don't have the capability to allow the driver to manually change the torque split, which the STI allows.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    One good thing about the 4EAT WRX, the VDC OB and the 5EAT Legacy GT is that they get the same Planetary gear based LSD with the Electronic transfer clutches as the STI. They just don't have the capability to allow the driver to manually change the torque split, which the STI allows.

    Pardon my stupidity on this matter but it sounds like and please correct me if I'm wrong, that Subaru is giving you a better AWD system with the automatic tranny? :confuse: Is this about it? If so then why not in the manual tranny? I really don't like slushboxes. But I'm trying to figure out what's going on. I read up on the Spec B and the Outback (expensive cars and not as fast as the WRX) But I'm a bit confused about the LSD's that are in the WRX manual versus automatic and the stuff in the Outback and the legacy.
    Could you clue me in?
    Thanks
  • aaykayaaykay Posts: 539
    Yes, that is true. The manual WRX uses the same AWD system as all other stickshifted Imprezas, other than the fact that the current WRX alone (among the Imprezas), gets a rear LSD. The ONLY stickshifted Subaru vehicle that gets the Planetary Gear based Center differential is the STI, which also has a switch that allows the front/rear torque split to be manually varied by the user...the default torque split being 41/59 with a bias to the rear. And yes, the 4EAT WRX also gets the same Center Differential hardware system, without the user having the ability to vary the torque split...the system in the 4EAT REX has a default torque split of 45/55 front/rear, but can automatically vary the torque split to the front/rear, as needed.

    I have no idea why they have not put the same system in the manual REX, which gets the same viscous coupling center diff system present in downmarket Imprezas, along with the 5-spd trans present in downmarket imprezas.

    In fact if you look at it, the STI gets a front mechanical Helical LSD, a rear Torsen Differential and the Planetary Gear based Center differential with electronic transfer clutches. This is in addition to the MUCH stronger 6-speed Trans (when compared to the 5-spd in the Stick WRX) and the significantly more powerful engine with forged pistons, Largest brake discs among all Subarus with large Brembo 4-pot/2-pot f/r Calipers, in addition to a host of other enhancements like way more beefier suspension components, Forged alloy BBS wheels that are 17x8 (as opposed to cast alloy 17x7 of the REX) with wider tires etc. The STI is certainly worth the premium that Subaru charges for it, over the REX, for people in the know, and is worth it from a value-for-money perspective (strange as it seems), even though it costs 1000s more than the REX. Several people mistakenly think of the STI as a REX with a little more power and one extra cog in the trans and an outlandish wing spoiler and they could not be more mistaken...in fact the REX is closer to the downmarket Imprezas than the STI, other than the fact that both the regular REX and the STI employ a turbo engine (albeit with big internal engine differences).
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Well let's get back to basics... I think some people are confusing things about the systems.

    The lines are being smeared here with some folks referring to the LSDs in the center v. the rear LSDs...

    Rear LSDs-
    SpecB, STi -Mechanical, STi has front and rear, SpecB rear only
    Pre 08 WRX, LGT, any other Subaru with a Rear LSD -Viscous rear only LSD

    Center Diffys/AWD Systems-

    5EATs - Planetary gears w/ 40/60 initial split, can transfer up to 10/90 or 90/10 depending on slippage

    4EATs - Electronic center diffy, 80/20 initial split can go to 10/90 or 90/10 depending on slippage

    5MTs - Viscous center coupling initial 50/50 and always strives for 50/50 but can vary to either axle depending on slippage

    6MTs - 50/50 initial, w/planetary gearset and electronic controls, can vary 90/10 to 10/90 depending on conditions and slippage, on STi can be locked at 50/50 and can vary initial split via driver control.

    This is a rough explaination of the systems, may not be 100% accurate.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Good description aaykay. And yes, that's the point of the STi to be the sports car. The WRX is setup for those folks who want a sporty car with some power, but not the all outness of the STi. Hence why they dropped the LSD in favor of the VDC would be my guess.

    -mike
  • aaykayaaykay Posts: 539
    Rougly true, Mike, except for the 4EAT in the WRX (as different from all other 4EATs in the Subaru list of vehicles) having the 5EAT type system you referenced above, with Planetary Gear based Center Diff with Electronically controlled Transfer clutches (same hardware as the STI, without the ability to manually vary the torque split).

    No other 4EAT in the Subaru line of vehicles, has a Center Differential.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Gotcha. There are also different AT torque splits back in the 90s, early ones were 90/10 and later ones 80/20 initial.

    -mike
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    Yes, that is true. The manual WRX uses the same AWD system as all other stickshifted Imprezas, other than the fact that the current WRX alone (among the Imprezas), gets a rear LSD. The ONLY stickshifted Subaru vehicle that gets the Planetary Gear based Center differential is the STI, which also has a switch that allows the front/rear torque split to be manually varied by the user...the default torque split being 41/59 with a bias to the rear. And yes, the 4EAT WRX also gets the same Center Differential hardware system, without the user having the ability to vary the torque split...the system in the 4EAT REX has a default torque split of 45/55 front/rear, but can automatically vary the torque split to the front/rear, as needed.
    I have no idea why they have not put the same system in the manual REX, which gets the same viscous coupling center diff system present in downmarket Imprezas, along with the 5-spd trans present in downmarket imprezas.


    So the Boring slushbox gets a far superior AWD system?! Is it just me or does this seem wrong and that we ought to get at least the same thing on the manual tranny?
    IIRC, the other Imprezas tend to be more front drivers rather than rear drivers I thought I read it was like 90/10 and when you needed it it would divert up to something like you posted 45/55 or something like that.
    It's been a while since I sold my WRX and left the US.
    I'm just really getting this "screwed over" feeling for some reason.
    Yes I know the STI is quite a different beast or at least was, who really knows for 2008.
    I mean look at base Lancer, it's an ok car in fact my wife sat in a couple of models yesterday to see how they fit/feel and her gripes were the rear wing blocks her visibility as she is short and the seat will not move up close enough to the steering wheel. These were 2007 models and nothing special but she so likes the EVO. I can only imagine and dread what dealers will be overcharging for a limited edition model. Subaru seems better than many other dealers about not overcharging at least that was my experience. Honda when they have a hot model will add on a lot over sticker. Too bad Mini is so far away as I might consider one at this point. But an almost 2 hour drive for an oil change? Nah.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    Good description aaykay. And yes, that's the point of the STi to be the sports car. The WRX is setup for those folks who want a sporty car with some power, but not the all outness of the STi. Hence why they dropped the LSD in favor of the VDC would be my guess.

    Sorry Mike I'd like to have an STI but justifying the added expenses unless you have a money tree growing in the backyard or a very generous boss, generally means you have to buy what you can afford. The WRX was a compromise but a damn good one. It had pretty much everything I wanted in a car and did it all up until they dropped the rear LSD.
    I mean if money wasn't an issue I'd just buy a Porsche GT3! :D
    No idea what we are going to do now. My wife thinks it all too much BS and thinks maybe an Accord would be a better choice even without AWD it offers a lot but she never drove an Accord I've owned at least 1 and it's not much fun to drive. At least my 1995 Accord wasn't. When you start nearing the $40K mark you can buy a BMW with the sport package for that, and a 328xi wagon for same as an STI.
    Slower, oh for certain but for $41K a 335i sedan with the sport package would make a very nice addition to the family and good snows in the winter Nokians or something and it'll go thru the snow just fine. $40K is a pretty high price for me to justify tho and the 135i is probably about 4-5K less but smaller and less practical.
    So that's why the WRX was so great fro me but now it's feeling like it's lacking.
  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    Yep. The 4EAT also had one variant that came with VTD and a 45/55 default split. This was available in the WRX's and Baja Turbo.

    -Brian
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Sounds like you've made up your mind to not get a WRX and don't want to fork over the $ for the STi. This is fairly common for Subaru owners as I've dealt with them in terms of business and a personal level for close to 10 years. They want Lobster and Filet Minion but only want to pay for Fish Sticks and Hamburgers. :)

    -mike
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    Sounds like you've made up your mind to not get a WRX and don't want to fork over the $ for the STi. This is fairly common for Subaru owners as I've dealt with them in terms of business and a personal level for close to 10 years. They want Lobster and Filet Minion but only want to pay for Fish Sticks and Hamburgers.

    Well Mike, I think I'm more a Burger and Fries kind of guy, besides I'm deathly allergic to Lobster. :P I just want some ketchup with my burger and fries (LSD) :D
    They had it before, now no ketchup, so I have to buy Tenderloin to get ketchup, :sick: which is much more than I want or need. No decisions have been made. The WRX is still on my list of cars to try, although I did decide to maybe try a couple of other Subaru's when at the dealership. Yes, I also added a few cars to my list, but keep in mind my wife also needs a car so I might just try and make do with buying a car that we both use for a while and then see what happens. Either way we need 2 cars and I worry she will stuff the car into a snowbank as she's never even seen snow! :surprise:
    So the Subaru makes a lot of sense. I'm just ticked off about a few changes Subaru made and while I can afford an STI or an EVO both will come out long after I need a car and I don't think I want to pay BMW prices for a Mitsu or a Subaru. Time will tell tho. My wife thinks she might like a Honda Fit as a daily driver but 6 moths after we buy it the new 09 model will be out.
    The rumors of a diesel WRX now that could spark my interest but I doubt they are true..
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,663
    http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/3054

    I like what I see here. I hope it works for them.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,663
    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18656461&postcount=1

    Roof rack (carrier base) now rated to carry 176 pounds! Used to be 100 pounds.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    We don't agree on much, at least the subjective stuff.

    I prefer the sedan. No clear tails, and it doesn't look tall and not-quite-long-enough like the hatch does.

    To be honest I'm really looking forward to the Forester, because I prefer true wagons over hatches.
  • aaykayaaykay Posts: 539
    Not trying to downplay this but the last place where I would want to be carrying almost 200 lbs is on the roof of a sub-compact, regardless of the rating of the carrier base.

    I would be more impressed if the - payload - were to increase to like 1100 lbs or so, from the current 900lbs (850 lbs for sedan).
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    The Blade runner theme looks like they combined it with something from Final Fantasy.
    I see the market they are going for and have no idea how it will work. Most marketing ploys don't seem to work well on me, show me gobs of power at a good price with good performance and that will sell me more than a commercial. But Subaru is trying to target a very broad audience with this stuff and going after Internet sales says a lot.
    I hope it works for them but I think they need more focus. But what do i know I'm not a marketing guy. maybe the next few commercials will be better. If they wanted this stuff they Should have let SquareSoft do the commercial for them and that would have been much better IMO.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I like the JDM feel. Too many people try to go "euro". The ads make it proud of what it is.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,663
    For those who may have overlooked it:

    http://video.on.nytimes.com/index.jsp?fr_story=597d89c8d6a7521869c30d9b8a77d50783ff5d39

    I think these ads are pretty sophisticated. I like the visuals and direction they are taking. They should appeal to a broader audience, which is what they're trying for. From what I see here—they will stand out—and that's half the battle in advertising.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'm not crazy about that one. It's too artificially digital.

    But what do I know? Movies like that get crazy box office numbers.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Either way we need 2 cars and I worry she will stuff the car into a snowbank as she's never even seen snow!

    You do realize that VDC would be 1000x safer for a person driving in snow over an LSD would right? Your wife having VDC would be a lot more important than having an LSD for your auto-x excursions.

    -mike
  • jeffmcjeffmc Posts: 1,742
    I'm with you, juice... celebrate the Japanese-ness of the brand, when appropriate. Many have grown up with an image of Japanese culture as ultra-modern, cool & intriguing. To do that in the US, though, they should've followed through by including the high-tech features offered on the JDM models.

    As long as you're marketing to folks below 65 years old, Japanese products have a solid reputation. They need to be careful about keeping upscale, modern & high-tech images in their ads, too. High-tech Japanese goods are awesome. Average Japanese goods are, well, not inspiring.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    You do realize that VDC would be 1000x safer for a person driving in snow over an LSD would right? Your wife having VDC would be a lot more important than having an LSD for your auto-x excursions.

    Yes but if 2 people need to drive the car then it's a different matter. Also consider this many cars already have some form of traction control. Better than Subaru? No idea until I drive it but we have dropped a few cars off our list and the Subaru is still on it. Why Subaru can't offer the LSD as a $500 option which is what it costs as an option on some other cars is beyond me.
    I am liking the MINI Cooper S and it has a LSD and traction Control and it has a good style to it but the dealer is very far away about 2 hours and I have no clue as to how I would get it serviced. My wife likes a few cars that I don't but the Cooper S we both like but there is no room in the back seat for a full sized adult on a long trip nor luggage space.
    Saw the video of the new STI and I'd buy a BMW for that kind of money, seriously, they are just too expensive and the BMW will be an easier sale down the road.
    Make the LSD an option in the WRX and it would be a good thing for those who want it versus those who don't. I may have to go back to the US mainland for a few weeks and then I have to come back here for 6 months. I am thinking I just might buy the older WRX Wagon 2007 model, lots of incentives but parking it for 6 months is a worry as no one can start it up and run it. It would sit in a garage for the entire time which might damage it.
    But the VDC sounds good i just don't think they should have taken out the LSD in favor of what amounts to fancy braking and throttle control. maybe Subaru couldn't figure out how to use both components together?
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