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2008 Subaru Impreza WRX

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Comments

  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    VDC is fairly advanced, to break it down to "fancy braking and throttle control" is belittling it a bit.

    As for a $500 stand alone option, Subaru can't afford to do stand alone options, especially one that is produced in Japan and shipped over here. They just don't do the volume to be able to mass pre-produce all those options, there is no such thing as "special ordering", yes you can order a car with XYZ options, but really what happens is your dealer waits until the distribution corp gets one with those specs in stock and then sells it to you.

    As for getting it to work together? The Spec B has VDC and a rear LSD, but neither is an option and you are paying top dollar for that car.

    The Mini is a nice car, but if service is 2hrs away that's not necessarily a good thing and it won't be 1/2 the car that the WRX would be in the snow. Also from what I've been told the LSD on the Mini is fairly limited with only a 20% LSD at most, a friend just sold one to get a 2001 2.5RS

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I remember Ultra Man from when I was a kid, and Anime is fresh on the minds of Gen Y nowadays, they grew up with it.

    Who in their 20s would not recognize Pokemon, for instance.

    Leave the 'kraut for the Euro brands.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Strange, I can't connect. I'll try again later.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,724
    Works for me.

    Bob
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    VDC is fairly advanced, to break it down to "fancy braking and throttle control" is belittling it a bit.

    How so?
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    You do realize that VDC would be 1000x safer for a person driving in snow over an LSD would right?

    I don't necessarily agree. Having something cut power and hit the brakes for me on a slippery surface doesn't sound all that helpful, actually.

    Especially if this comes at a cost of making it less fun to drive the rest of the time.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Finally got the video working...that thing was really hauling asphalt! :D
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    Mike says: VDC is fairly advanced, to break it down to "fancy braking and throttle control" is belittling it a bit.

    Steve asks: Ok so can you tell me about it because to me it pretty much seems like that's what it's doing. I'd really like to know about VDC in a way which explains it clearly but what I see is traction control that works by using the brakes and reducing the throttle. So honestly I'd like to know what I'm missing.

    Mike says: As for a $500 stand alone option, Subaru can't afford to do stand alone options, especially one that is produced in Japan and shipped over here. They just don't do the volume to be able to mass pre-produce all those options, there is no such thing as "special ordering", yes you can order a car with XYZ options, but really what happens is your dealer waits until the distribution corp gets one with those specs in stock and then sells it to you.

    Steve says: Yeah I hear you on that one. Still it would be nice if Subaru would do something like that. As far as the Spec B I don't think it's as performance oriented as the Impreza but a lot more comfortable.

    Mike says: The Mini is a nice car, but if service is 2hrs away that's not necessarily a good thing and it won't be 1/2 the car that the WRX would be in the snow. Also from what I've been told the LSD on the Mini is fairly limited with only a 20% LSD at most, a friend just sold one to get a 2001 2.5RS

    Steve says: Yep, and people sell WRX's to get Mini's it's what drives the car world. :)
    Yes, it's hard to beat AWD in the snow but so many factors come into play. Price, reliability, fuel economy, looks, driveability etc....
    For me right now the WRX is competing with the 2008 Honda Accord. I'm a bit ticked off because they won't offer the V6 with a stick in the 4 door any longer but it's a lot of car for the money and we get snow for maybe 3 months of the year. The Accord gives you a lot for a similar price point but no AWD. I know you are/were a fan of the GTO, but we need reliability also and I have to drive a lot of highway my wife has to drive more in the city. Nothing in 2007 interests me and 2008 is a dull year as there are no diesels. :( I'd take an Accord diesel over a WRX in a heartbeat! But I'd have to wait another year. This is why so many conflicts about cars. I want a diesel, my wife likes diesels also but no one likes VW dealerships and not one in my area has gotten a good review online, and the ones I've dealt with in the past :mad: the words I'd use would get me thrown off the forum. Plus resale on them isn't very good either, at least not in my area. So for us it will either be buying a Fit then move into an Accord diesel or buy a WRX and get a diesel in 2 years or something like that. Either way we will most likely end up with a Fit as a second car. The Mini is nice but it's a long hike to the dealership and if you don't like the dealership you have to deal with Boston traffic, and that one is the only other one in the State and it's a long drive to buy and service a car, nice and cute as it is and no discounts just full MSRP.
    BMW 1 series looks nice but might be too small and price is unknown but if I can buy a 135i for $30K and the back seat is actually useable for an adult I might buy one.
    3 series is ideal but $41K is not what I want to pay, I have other things I like to do with my $$$.
    The wife also likes the RAV4 and the CR-V but I'm not into SUV's. If I'm going to buy a truck it had better be able to haul about 5,000lbs or so.
    The CR-V and the RAV4 sold outside the US are smaller than ones sold in the US.
    I drove a Miata with Nokian Hakka Q tires and I passed all kinds of cars in the winter during weather that was really horrible. Drove through a canadian blizzard up in Quebec City in that Miata so tires make a big difference.
    We shall see I'm not married to any of these cars. I really need to drive them to make a choice but the choice is narrowed down and Subaru is still up there even with them pulling out the LSD. I'm still :mad: about that!
    VDC
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The euro RAV4 is indeed smaller but the CR-V is one size for the whole globe, I believe.

    Honda does have a smaller FR-V but it's just not competitive.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    The euro RAV4 is indeed smaller but the CR-V is one size for the whole globe, I believe.

    Honda does have a smaller FR-V but it's just not competitive.


    Well in Asia things are a lot different. Lots of cars are made in Thailand. You know I forgot to check but many cars made for Asia don't have heaters. When I go to the Toyota dealer for my next service I will see if it actually has a heater.
    These aren't Euro spec cars. You'd be amazed at what they do locally and how much the prices are!!! A loaded 2007 V6 Camry will set you back over $40K US! :surprise:
    The CR-V here will fit 4 adults but that's about it and the RAV4 is slightly bigger and will seat 4 Big adults or 12 Filipinos :P
    Considering I got 9 of us into my 1983 diesel BJ40 Landcruiser I think the RAV4 could hold 11 anyway :D
    Sizes I didn't measure but the CR-V I didn't get a brochure for I do have the one for the RAV4. We only get the 4 cyl here but I think a V6 could be ordered under a special order Oh here is length width and height on the RAV4 in millimeters
    Length 4,600 x Width 1,855 x Height 1,720
    They don't list interior dimensions. The CR-V felt like a tall Civic which they also had. Most uncomfortable seats I ever sat on were in that Civic. The felt like I was sitting on a rock with felt on it.
    I can't get the sizes on the CR-V as it's a pretty far drive just for that. But I'm amazed at how small the CR-V was. The new WRX interior had better be good and not like the Civic they have here.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,724
    The WRX doesn't compare or compete with the Accord. The Legacy GT, much more so, but not the WRX.

    Bob
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    The WRX doesn't compare or compete with the Accord. The Legacy GT, much more so, but not the WRX.

    It sure does when I am paying for it. :P
    You can get good deals on Hondas depending on when you go to buy them and when the car is out 2008's early on will have no discounts. If I want to compare an Accord to a WRX and I am. it's my choice and the money is very close with all the rebates.
    I compare based on my needs not based on someone else idea of what I should buy. The Legacy seems to be a bit on the expensive side and sure I might test drive one but resale on the Honda will be higher and it's easy to sell the Honda when the time comes. My WRX was a hard sell after a year and a half or so I had no options as I had to move out of the country for work.
    I'm not a fanboy for any car. I buy whatever I feel is right for me at the time. I hated my 1995 Accord. The new one (2007) seems much nicer by miles than the old one.
    How will the 2008 drive? I don't know but I'm going to drive both anyway and make my decision based on a series of factors. Subaru ticked me off by removing the LSD. But I still might buy one.
    It's ticks me off when people tell me what I can and can't compare and buy with my money. I think Edmunds did an article called Apples and Oranges or something like that. Well in my mind it's my money and for me the 2 cars are close enough for my needs to compare.
    Maybe they'll discount the WRX or maybe I can get a better deal on the Honda? But no way am I going to just look at one brand and one model based on some marketing demographic that says Steve you must compare these 2 cars because we say so.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The Accord is sort of big and makes compromises to achieve a ride quality acceptable for my Aunt Edna, i.e. the types that buy mainstream sedans. Even the sporty models aren't truly sporty.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    The Accord is sort of big and makes compromises to achieve a ride quality acceptable for my Aunt Edna, i.e. the types that buy mainstream sedans. Even the sporty models aren't truly sporty.

    I concur, and even as I cross shopped the Accord, I was budgeting $700 or so for sway bars/shocks, but it seems funny to do that on a brand new car.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Would it even be that cheap? A set of coilovers and matched sway bars might be more like $1200.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    Yeah, I wasn't going to do springs. I can't lower a car until I move back to California. Slammed cars in Michigan have no front spoilers and spend all their time parked in front of the chiropractor. :P
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    The Accord is sort of big and makes compromises to achieve a ride quality acceptable for my Aunt Edna, i.e. the types that buy mainstream sedans. Even the sporty models aren't truly sporty.

    I can't deny that, but I also have a bunch of factors that I have to consider and sure the WRX is more sporty at least I hope it still is. But economy is important and I drive a lot of highway miles, so yeah boring but it sets 4 people and luggage comfortably and now has cylinder de-activation so on the highway cruising you only use 3 cyl!
    Trade-in will be very good and the diesels will get awesome economy. I can always buy an older Porsche if I want performance and if I get the WRX well that's ok as well. either way i'll still buy an Accord diesel at some point unless someone makes a better diesel car.
    Once you go diesel you never want to go back.
    The Accord is comfortable on long hauls and in traffic it's not really sporty. It does a lot for the money. The WRX is/was a real nice car even tho it needed premium fuel.
    Gotta see how both cars drive. But you live over here in the RP for a while sit you butt down on a hard plastic chair for 3-4 hours waiting for a doctor who may or may not be on time. usually not on time. Then you hope he actually knows what he's doing and doesn't dismiss you and still want to be paid. Yeah after years of this, comfort starts to take precedent and you have to compromise something. When you reach your mid 40's and have bad back problems etc... certain very cool cars lose their appeal to drive. I think the WRX buyers are heading more mainstream anyway as that seems to be their new focus is comfort and they sure sold a lot of Limited versions versus the Boy racer huge wing styles. i had the dealer delete the rear spoiler from my car.
    This was my old WRX, I still love the look of this car.
    As you can see we do get some very real snow there. :D
    Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    VDC actually uses yaw sensors, throttle position sensors, ABS sensors, steering wheel position sensors, and probably a few others to help keep you from losing control in adverse conditions. I watched as a friend drove my Nissan Armada which uses the Subaru VDC system and watched as the VDC light would flicker on/off as he tossed it through some icy turns in the snow. You didn't feel anything special going on but the vehicle maintained control throughout the excersize. So I found it to be quite un-invasive and allowed us to maintain control in situations that I know would have produced poor results in a non-VDC equipped vehicle.

    As for the mini, I was pointing out that the LSD only "limited" the slip 20% v. other LSDs that are more agressive.

    On cross shopping an accord? Kinda odd considering it's larger than the legacy even, has no AWD, and IIRC no LSD either.

    GTO was in the works, but I realized that AWD is far superior to RWD + 400hp will ever be, same reason I ditched the idea of an 2002 540i 6MT. I'd have kicked myself if I slammed into something in the rain or the snow with a RWD car. In addition I got a killer deal on my 05 LGT Wagon 5MT that I couldn't pass up.

    -mike
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    VDC actually uses yaw sensors, throttle position sensors, ABS sensors, steering wheel position sensors, and probably a few others to help keep you from losing control in adverse conditions. I watched as a friend drove my Nissan Armada which uses the Subaru VDC system and watched as the VDC light would flicker on/off as he tossed it through some icy turns in the snow. You didn't feel anything special going on but the vehicle maintained control throughout the excersize. So I found it to be quite un-invasive and allowed us to maintain control in situations that I know would have produced poor results in a non-VDC equipped vehicle.

    Ok so it uses a computer to monitor everything which is good but it still basically either cuts the throttle or applies the brakes to control the car. Sure that's the simple explanation and I understand it's a really trick system but still like most traction control systems that's how they work no matter how fancy they are. LSD's are mechanical devices, much simpler as they lockup when they detect slip. The VDC doesn't sound bad it sounds pretty good for the snow. Maybe most people won't miss anything mechanical in their cars? Thanks for the explanation on VDC tho at least I understand it a bit better now.

    As for the mini, I was pointing out that the LSD only "limited" the slip 20% v. other LSDs that are more aggressive.

    I had to veto the Mini even tho we like it. But with only 2 dealers within anything resembling driving distance and none in our own State and no loaner cars I think it's just not worth it until someone puts a dealership within 50 miles of us we have like 8 Honda dealers with that distance if not more and I think 4-5 Subaru dealers.

    On cross shopping an accord? Kinda odd considering it's larger than the legacy even, has no AWD, and IIRC no LSD either.

    Yes but it can be had for the same money or close to it and it's just one of the cars we are considering. But Hondas really hold their value and I think the Legacy is not for me but I might drive one and see but when it gets spec'd out it really costs big $$$! The 2008 Accord V6 has cylinder deactivation and highway economy should go up a bit at least 30+mpg on the highway, 260+HP. I'd really prefer a diesel Accord which will get 50+ mpg on the highway but am stuck waiting another year for it to come out. I don't really need a city car. I like AWD and the WRX was really fun in the dry, but the new one does not look so good and the Accord looks better but as I have said I have to drive them.
    I think the WRX has lost it's edge. If I can find a great deal on a 2007 when I get back might get a 2007 Wagon or possibly an STi. I know you can't buy the older EVO's anymore. But price will matter. We are thinking of possibly buying a house within a year or two and that makes it more complicated. We also might move back here if I can pull early retirement. I can own any car I want and drive anything i want on the road here! No speed limits except due to road conditions. I can buy grey market vehicles and I mean almost anything they sell in japan I can buy here and then it's converted to Left hand drive. I see so much stuff that you could never own in the US. If I was brave enough to drive it in the insane traffic here I could buy an Ariel Atom!
    Civic Type R's are easy to buy here but not very comfortable to drive. You don't see many Subaru's compared to EVO's but I think I can buy as low as an EVO IV up to a IX. A used 3 series 325i will run me under $10K.
    I see ATV's on the road like Raptors and other models one guy has a Yamaha Raptor he drives on the road all the time. Mods are legal as long as the engine and drivetrain are registered. Emissions are pretty useless since no one uses them and to pass a test you pay about $10 and you pass! The cops all quit work around 8pm and go home and no traffic cops at all at night! My insurance on my 2006 Hi-Lux full coverage is now about $260 a YEAR! That is with my wife on the policy as a new driver! Add a zero onto that in the US depending on the car! If you get in an accident it is not held against you here. Car theft? There was one car stolen in the past year and the cops found it in 20 minutes. Yes they will break in and steal your stereo and things like that but if they get caught it's bad for them.
    I have friends here who own all sorts of vehicles and I've driven a lot of them.
    No traffic lights in my city but the town over has 1 traffic light! In the US you can't by a fun car unless you spend big $$$. Here anything you can afford is ok for the road!
    New cars cost twice as much as the US for the same model but you can take buy an EVO VI take it out out and thrash around on the roads and no one cares. They do drifting on the base on the weekends and security just watches. No one cares what you do unless it's something very bad.
    Sorry for the long winded aspect. But driving here has a lot of advantages over the traffic ticketing happy US.


    GTO was in the works, but I realized that AWD is far superior to RWD + 400hp will ever be, same reason I ditched the idea of an 2002 540i 6MT. I'd have kicked myself if I slammed into something in the rain or the snow with a RWD car. In addition I got a killer deal on my 05 LGT Wagon 5MT that I couldn't pass up.

    I hear ya on that one! I traded my 1995 accord in on a 1996 Impala SS. Great car, lousy mileage! The GTO looked sweet, but hard to hookup those tires even with wide rubber on the back end. Lotta HP. But most cars that are raced are RWD.
    I have found tires make the difference in the snow. If you have lousy tires on an AWD car it's going to be crap in the snow or rain. I had no problems with My Miata on roads covered in snow with my Nokian Hakka Q's.
    Problem was they were no fun when the roads dried up and were poor in the wet.
    The Legacy is now only a Sedan anyway and I'd really like a wagon. I know the Accord isn't a wagon.
    If Subaru hadn't screwed up by removing stuff instead of adding better stuff to what was already there I probably wouldn't have cross shopped. That LSD can't make a huge difference in price. But we will see maybe the WRX will be better than I think?
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    I watched as a friend drove my Nissan Armada which uses the Subaru VDC system and watched as the VDC light would flicker on/off as he tossed it through some icy turns in the snow.

    I have a much different view of stability control systems on top-heavy, ungainly vehicles than on small passenger cars. Stability programs on SUVs, pick-ups and vans, where the goal is to keep the rubber side down.
    I'm also pretty sure the only indication the system was tying anything was the flashing VDC light, as having that little traction would adversely affect the ability of the VSC to help.

    EDIT:
    I wish we had gotten the LGT wagon when we got ours. If I could get an LGT wagon with a stick now, I probably would trade up. It was just too out of budget at the time.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,549
    I wish we had gotten the LGT wagon when we got ours. If I could get an LGT wagon with a stick now, I probably would trade up. It was just too out of budget at the time.

    Are you sitting in my head? ;)

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    VCM on the Odyssey has been a bit disappointing, out in the real world the Direct Injection 2GR engine in the Sienna actually gets better mileage. Maybe it's too heavy to run on 3 cylinders much of the time.

    The Accord is lighter so maybe it'll be in VCM mode more often.

    I drove to NY with Bob, and we got something like 28mpg, going pretty fast, too. Not bad. A turbo is much like VCM in that you can use it when you need it and stay out of the boost when you don't.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    The Accord is lighter so maybe it'll be in VCM mode more often.
    I drove to NY with Bob, and we got something like 28mpg, going pretty fast, too. Not bad. A turbo is much like VCM in that you can use it when you need it and stay out of the boost when you don't.


    No idea about what the new Accord will do but traction control is ok providing you can switch it off. The VCM cold very well be improved at least I hope it is over the older version. But on the highway it will probably depend on the load you are carrying and speed etc...
    The problem with a turbo is if you are driving in the turbo's band you are using fuel you really don't need. I think the 2.5 WRX has the turbo spool up at something like 2,500 rpms. In 5th gear on the highway I forget what that is but if you are going 80mph and you are 2,600 rpm's you are losing economy. The Accord is hardly a be all and end all of great cars. It' reliable and gives you a lot of car for the money. I know it's boring to drive I owned one my ex GF had one. It was pretty bland but if I find the new WRX to be bland I might as well have a comfortable car. :) I'm hoping that the WRX isn't as bland to drive as it is to look at. But I'd rather have an Accord diesel when they come out over the V6. Shame it's going to take so long to release it. 50 mpg on the highway works for me! :D
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,724
    80 mph in the 2.5 WRX is about 3000 rpm. At that speed I get closer to 25-26 mpg. At 60 or so I get around 27-28 mpg. With the gearing and powerband I'm rarely in 5th gear beow 50 mph.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    GM just announced an Aura diesel is coming soon.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    80 mph in the 2.5 WRX is about 3000 rpm. At that speed I get closer to 25-26 mpg. At 60 or so I get around 27-28 mpg. With the gearing and powerband I'm rarely in 5th gear below 50 mph.

    Ouch!
    Thanks Bob, that tells me it's brushing into the turbo at that speed. 60mph on an Interstate? That's a death wish even in the snow as little old ladies will be passing you like Wile E. Coyote on Rocket Skates! :D
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    GM just announced an Aura diesel is coming soon.

    GM as in the same GM who made all the cost cutting to the WRX? :P I want a Japanese or German diesel, Honda, Toyota, or even a BMW. Something reliable. :)
    The diesel Accord looks sweet, but Toyota is just not doing diesels in the US they have great diesels outside the US.
    Seriously tho thanks for the info.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Posts: 1,742
    Subaru's got a 2.0L turbodiesel coming to Europe soon, but they're still evaluating its feasibility the US market so it's probably 2 years away from US shores at best. They debuted the world's first horizontally opposed boxer engine at the Geneva Auto Show. Rumor also has them developing a 6-cyl version.

    On the other hand, sounds like you'd be able to get a European Subaru diesel into the Phillippines pretty soon! ;)
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    Subaru's got a 2.0L turbodiesel coming to Europe soon, but they're still evaluating its feasibility the US market so it's probably 2 years away at best. They debuted the world's first horizontally opposed boxer engine at the Geneva Auto Show. Rumor also has them developing a 6-cyl version.
    On the other hand, sounds like you'd be able to get a European Subaru diesel into the Philippines pretty soon!


    Thanks for the info, so sad I will be back in the US in about 6 months or less!
    Subaru making a clean diesel will be sometime off i fear. We get all kinds of diesels here and yes you can buy real Subaru's in Manila but not anywhere else yet. They have a dealership in Cebu but they have no cars.
    Manila has some cars but I hate getting around there i's such a PITA that I won't even drive there.
    Subaru is a good car and I still think it has possibilities but a diesel would be great, but sadly it's at least 2 years away and possibly more. By 2010 all the car makers will have a diesel out to compete with each other. Hybrids are just too limited in their usage which is mostly stop and go city driving and even the BMW 120d shuts off the engine in traffic to conserve fuel and has regenerative braking and it's not a hybrid!
    Oh and a non-greymarket Subaru like say a WRX not an STI would probably cost you at least $45K USD! in the Philippines or more. Just double the US price and you'll be close and there are no discounts at all! You go in and pay the sticker price or you don't buy the car.
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