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2008 Subaru Impreza WRX

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Comments

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,505
    I meant - that iPod thing - you said you don't have one and don't want one. I meant most of their hopeful customers are on exact opposite spectrum and would appreciate (read demand) iPod connectivity standard.

    Could you print your entire list, Bob, and make it a letter to Subaru? I would like to sign it on the dotted line ;)

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,674
    I believe iPod connectivity is standard on '08 WRX models. My reason for preferring a built-in HD is that you don't have to have your iPod resting in a cupholder or on your lap. I suppose you could stick it in you glove box, or some other storage area, but most folks won't do that.

    To be clear here: I don't dislike iPods. Not at all. I think they're pretty cool. I'm just not that much of a music buff to want one.

    SOA folks monitor these boards, so I suspect (hope!) they will pass on my suggestions. :)

    Bob
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,505
    I believe iPod connectivity is standard on '08 WRX models.

    Don't think so. Part of "premium-schmemium" package is aux input, which is even less than aux input. So the car may be prewired, but it definitely does not std iPod connection (special proprietary docking allowing talking to each other). While iPod-specific docking would be nice, but it may be part of some accessory package, omitting simple aux input in 25-grand base WRX is ridiculous.

    Car dubbed "WRX" is really a counterpart of old "TR", whereas "Premium" is old "WRX". It was a hidden price raise, if you think about it. Saying that they managed to keep it under 25 grand is a little stretch IMHO. However, when compared to what was offered 5 years ago for 25K, it's still not bad, if you factor inflation and material cost. The only problem is competition - in 2002 they simply could have priced it a couple of thousands more and would have ended with similar sales. Today it's not the case - the pressures from below (Speed3, SRT-4) and above (A3) are quite substantial.

    Overall, unlike Steve and LilEngr, I think WRX is still pretty good buy, but I'll wait for incentives before I even consider switching. I'm not the one who has to be first on the block - quite to contrary - I like them to iron little wrinkles before I jump on something.

    The "Premium" at invoice with a grand cashback (or real discount on financing - not just 5.9%) would be pretty good buy, even if the name is silly, grill hideous and tail lights not suiting my age and temper.

    Conversely - if they keep price but add some equipment listed by Bob, it would also come better, even without the incentives.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,674
    Don't think so. Part of "premium-schmemium" package is aux input, which is even less than aux input. So the car may be prewired, but it definitely does not std iPod connection (special proprietary docking allowing talking to each other). While iPod-specific docking would be nice, but it may be part of some accessory package, omitting simple aux input in 25-grand base WRX is ridiculous.

    Obviously I wasn't paying that close attention. If I were an iPod aficionado, I probably would have noticed that. :)

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,674
    There are some pics up at nabisco of new Imprezas already at a dealer in Calgary and other Canadian dealers.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I didn't assume anything at all. I was asking you, hence all the question marks. I made that very clear.

    I didn't know you had an early WRX, I didn't know you have a BRAT, I didn't know anything, nor did I imply that I did. All I know is that you've been making a big deal about them dropping the rear viscous limited-slip differential.

    Heck, it wasn't even a Torsen, but that's another post.

    Your comment just surprised me, caught me off guard.

    You're talking about old school Subies to support your desire for a limited-slip differential, well back then it was 4WD, not AWD, and no limited slips at all. Plus Subaru's origins weren't with performance cars.

    If we go back that far, they were simple, reliable, all-weather cars. Low cost 4WD, basically. I just don't see how talking about their roots relates to autocrossers and people that take high-performance cars to the track. That is a far cry from the core, old school Subaru client.

    There just aren't big enough numbers of WRC fans in the US, so what works in Europe won't necessarily work here. Plus, Subaru has been getting clobbered in WRC, their last constructors championship was a decade ago.

    Styling is subjective, but I disagree about them having cheapened the car. The interior especially looks far nicer. I had a Forester and may get another, and the nicer interior is by far the thing I'm most looking forward to.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Let's take a step back, and check out an older Subaru ad, just for kicks.

    A couple of things of note:

    * they actually promote FWD
    * they see themselves as pioneers
    * they talk about snow belt states
    * they mention gas mileage

    And of course the famous "inexpensive and built to stay that way" tag line.

    Nothing at all in that typical heritage ad mentions autocross, racing, features for the track, etc. Far from it. They target practical people that just want to get around in any weather, and affordably.

    The WRX was a major shift for them, away from their core customer, an attempt to attract younger people outside of the snow belt using AWD as a performance selling point.

    I think for the 2008 model, not adding power, keeping the prices flat, adding VDC for safety and to manage traction on both axles, all that is consistent with their old school heritage.

    Sure, it might alienate a few autocrossers who bought 2002 WRXs the day they came out, but I don't see them moving away from the old school Subrau customer at all.
  • sunilbsunilb Posts: 407
    Are there any published reviews of the '08s?
    Edmunds only had based on the 2.0 engine, so I'm curious how the US version is going to be (especially now that they are hitting dealerships).
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    What makes you think that the "core demographic" wouldn't appreciate having a 40 GB hard drive to store their music?

    Because the core demographic already has an iPod, and most don't want to re-upload their music in 16 different places.

    You were right about the iPod being in the glove box. Thats where it should be, fitted to a cradle like BMW/Volvo/Toyota/VW. It should be charging while its connected, and the user interface should be through the car's stereo.

    Ripping CDs to an HD is a time consuming pain, IMHO.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,674
    There's a news embargo until August 1. Expect plenty of news to appear on that date.

    As to hitting dealers... It's Canada, not the US.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,674
    and most don't want to re-upload their music in 16 different places.

    You know that for a fact? Uploading files on to other media has never bothered me. I do it all the time with large graphic files. ...And that has nothing to do whether I fit the core demographic.

    Thats where it should be

    But most likely won't, as most people are lazy.

    Bob
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    Thats where it should be

    But most likely won't, as most people are lazy.

    It will be if that's where Subaru puts the cradle ;)
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,674
    Found the following over at nabisco. I believe the guy posting is from a dealer, and has gotten some early details.

    Bob

    __________________

    I've been looking at the standard features for all the models, and noticed a few things...

    The "base" 2.5i has steel wheels and rear drums...

    However, the "premium" 2.5i has alloys, rear discs, 10 speakers, leather steering wheel with audio controls, hill holder (which isnt on the base model), VD, brake assist (whatever that is), and fog lights... So really you don't get much with the "base" 2.5i, and the "premium" 2.5i is $20k

    The Outback sport is interesting... 17" wheels (on an OBS? ), VDC, hill holder, front AND rear underguards (whatever those are), side moulding, the raised suspension, and fog lights... Most of that is on top of what the premium already has, so its rather well equiped.

    The interesting thing I found about the WRX is that you can't get the telescoping steering wheel on the 2.5i's! Plus, the hill holder is on the WRX now too, along with the "brake assist"...
  • jeffmcjeffmc Posts: 1,742
    Boy, that's really disappointing about the aux input. :sick: Sounds like best choice now would be that Jazzy Engineering solution, for the non-premium models.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,505
    Yeah - I thoght the same thing. If 14-grand xA can have it, so should 25K WRX - you'd think.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    Hint: It was a hyperbola (in other words - exaggeration used for illustration). Plus, I wrote "everything short of..." in front that, which means (I think - English is not my native tongue ) that you came close to complaining about Subaru not being like Ferrari (again - I was exaggerating to make a point), but you did not specifically mentioned Ferrari, of course.

    Hyperbole, yes I've got it but with all the comments flying I wanted to be sure what you were really saying. I still hate the style of the new WRX but will try and drive one anyway.
    I don't expect a car to look like a Ferrari and am really considering used options for a car along with new cars at this point an older Porsche along with a new base Impreza, Accord or something might also work for me. No idea yet.
    Looks do matter just see all the complaints about the new Accord, too bland, too bold. It's what drives the industry and my old WRX looked nothing like a Ferrari but at least it looked good! Style is very subjective that's why what I like matters alot to me but not to anyone else. But if a crs style overall is unattractive or to over the top or whatever then that vehicle is gonna lose sales.
    But we already made the decision not to get an STI. Too much money and the direction Subaru is heading won't be for us. Maybe an Impreza base WRX or another model but not an STI. My opinion is that Subaru is going to sell more base Imprezas now because you have AWD and the difference between the base and the WRX being $8K apart makes the $18K base model a bargain regular fuel, and lower insurance and 7/10's of the new WRX. So a base model now is a better option than ever before.
    Still the styling is not for me but the AWD sure is nice.
    You have to drive the cars to see what you like. My butt has bought more cars than my brain. :P
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    SOA folks monitor these boards, so I suspect (hope!) they will pass on my suggestions.

    I doubt very much they will listen to my suggestions, but then again we will see how it all works out in a couple of years. I'm not an iPod guy either but they really have to have this for the people who are into them. It's not a big deal to have it.

    Oh and SOA, if you are listening and I hope you are. I hope you guys think back on your original demographic and spend more time being the best niche AWD car maker with Rally type cars versus the way you are going now.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    I didn't assume anything at all. I was asking you, hence all the question marks. I made that very clear.
    I didn't know you had an early WRX, I didn't know you have a BRAT, I didn't know anything, nor did I imply that I did. All I know is that you've been making a big deal about them dropping the rear viscous limited-slip differential.


    You did imply it tho and the way it came across was that 2002 was something or other, anyway it's not a big deal.
    My mother also owned a 2003 base Impreza with a gutless slushbox :(
    but she loved it and My sister ditched her subaru forget what it was when she transferred to Florida and her company gave some big discounts on certain cars. Not sure what she has now. Yeah I have made an issue about the LSD because if you look closely you will see as other have stated that Subaru has made some major alterations OTHER than that to their crs through the packages you can buy.
    All this means is the base model will be a pretty good deal for the money and the others won't be as good a deal for money. The new interior is in the base Impreza as is their AWD, VDC requires the premium pack but for many the $1K will probably be worth it. I don't see the WRX being worth it for the $8K price difference but for sure the base model is looking much better.

    You're talking about old school Subies to support your desire for a limited-slip differential, well back then it was 4WD, not AWD, and no limited slips at all. Plus Subaru's origins weren't with performance cars.

    Actually I'm just pointing out that I've owned more than 1 subaru and yeah i remember when they had that 3rd headlight option in them. I didn't own one and yeah their 4WD system was different and parts cost up the wazoo to buy if anything broke back then.
    I don't need to justify the lack of a LSD, or anything else. It's a fact, not a problem but getting an extra $8K out of me for a new interior and less performance than last year well that's a wee bit tougher.

    yeah Subaru is not doing well in WRC and it shows. It's ok also. lots of other companies will capitalize on it. I don't rally the car but if I did I'd buy used and modify with no warranty worries.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    We agree about the $8k being a stiff price to pay for the upgrade to a WRX, but I disagree about the less performance comment.

    The new one will be a little bit lighter, plus it has shorter overhangs to the polar moment of inertia should be improved (i.e. it will turn in quicker).

    I realize we bench race cars all the time just reading about them but we should reserve judgment until we can actually drive a 2008 WRX.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    To me the Premium model is the best value by far.

    The base is just too stripped. I hope the steelies are at least styled. Rear drums, too. Well, that's how they keep prices down on the Forester X.

    The Premium gets a lot of functional, important upgrades.

    The Outback Sport is mostly cosmetic. The Premium already has VDC, so you're really only getting two-tone, mouldings, and fake skid plates. 1" bigger rims, but not many functional upgrades.

    I'd take a Premium with NAV over an OBS.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Posts: 1,742
    Boy, this has been one busy thread. Yep, the Premium definitely sounds like the way to go, value-wise. I see why Subaru needed to keep the base figure down... for competitive reasons, for folks who only shop price, and for marketing reasons. Same reason they introduced the Outback Basic. Other manufactuers advertise "starting at..." models, and it's always a stripped model when you read the fine print. Subaru had stopped offering models like that for a while, and for folks who don't read the fine print or compare apples to apples, the Subarus started to look too expensive. For some folks it's all about basic transportation, as well, which is cool. Subaru's not neglecting them anymore, but is keeping quality AWD within reach of nearly every new car buyer.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Posts: 1,742
    This may have gotten lost in all the LSD-related posts, but Subaru is offering an optional iPod interface on the new Impreza, so you will be able to use the car's stereo to control your iPod. It's a separate cable that installs to the stereo, and ends in a dock in the center console, separate from the A/V inputs. Part # is H621SFG500, if someone wants to contact Subaru about compatibility with the base Impreza.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    • Auto-up power windows
    This is a no-brainer for the driver's window. It would also be great for the other windows too. Subaru has always stated safety concerns for not offering them, so who knows...

    • Auto-open moonroof
    Again, another no-brainer.

    • delayed power for accessories
    Again, another no-brainer.


    All of these are available from Nissan....So it would be plug and play for the Subarus to get em since they source their switches and a lot of electronics from Nissan.

    Also I had the auto-up on the SVX and XT6s....

    -mike
  • jeffmcjeffmc Posts: 1,742
    Aren't all the Subaru moonroofs auto-open already? A single touch does it on my Legacy. (It does take 2 touches to close.)
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    We agree about the $8k being a stiff price to pay for the upgrade to a WRX, but I disagree about the less performance comment.

    Well it does offer less than last year but it also does have some additional features.

    I realize we bench race cars all the time just reading about them but we should reserve judgment until we can actually drive a 2008 WRX.

    Well there isn't much you can do until the car is released and the look of a car is important to me. But tastes differ from person to person.
    I still think it's overpriced but which we agree on and I also agree that it has to be driven to form a real solid opinion. But that won't be possible for me for a while as the car isn't released in the US yet and I'm not going to be in the US for about 6 months. Then I will need to buy a car within a week! So for me I don't have alot of shopping time once I'm there.
  • aaykayaaykay Posts: 539
    The new one will be a little bit lighter,

    Yup. The reduction in weight (50 lbs ?), corresponds to the elimination of equipment that came in earlier versions, including the rear viscous LSD, the roof-rails (wagon), the narrower tires, the more "compact" (and lighter duty ?)rear suspension, plastic parts replacing Aluminium in the engine bay, the elimination of the front sub-frame etc.

    The VDC adds zero weight, since it uses the existing sensors (available in all Imprezas for the past several years) and according to the logic built into the software/firmware, brakes individual wheels or cuts engine power to prevent bad drivers who don't pay too much attention while driving, from making terrible mistakes. VDC is available from the lowly sub-16K 2.5i model to the top-of-the-line 29K WRX...obviously due to the minimal costs involved in introducing it. VDC also wins brownie points in the brochure and helps in selling to the mass market (lowest common denominator). :P Plus VDC meets the upcoming car "safety" mandates from the Govt and Subaru simply cannot get away from introducing it, since $10K Kias will now come with it. ;)
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    Yup. The reduction in weight (100 lbs ?), corresponds to the elimination of equipment that came in earlier versions, including the rear viscous LSD, the roof-rails (wagon), the narrower tires, the more "compact" rear suspension, the elimination of the front sub-frame etc.

    Now If I had said that, and of course I have, everyone would jump on me about it. ;)
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,505
    Yup. The reduction in weight (50 lbs ?), corresponds to the elimination of equipment that came in earlier versions, including the rear viscous LSD, the roof-rails (wagon), the narrower tires, the more "compact" (and lighter duty ?)rear suspension, plastic parts replacing Aluminium in the engine bay, the elimination of the front sub-frame etc.

    Well, it's a new chassis and new body, so it's hard to say where this reduction really comes from. However, I see your point. When counting, it becomes clear there was some bean counter cheapening going on in quest of meeting price point. All manufacturers do that and they usually do it in places that are not obvious to casual consumer.

    My problem with Subaru doing that is that they had always proudly announced that their designs are because it was a "right way", not cheap way. Apparently no more :cry:

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,674
    Not on my '06 WRX Limited.

    Bob
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    I snagged these pics from Top Gear, yes we've seen body clad pics but if the new STi looks like this then it would be miles above the WRX.
    These are CG pics but based on what they think it could look like sans camo.
    If nothing else the car definitely looks cool! :D

    http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q19/SteveCebu/New_STi-01.jpg

    http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q19/SteveCebu/New_STi-02.jpg

    http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q19/SteveCebu/New_STi-03.jpg
This discussion has been closed.