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2008 Subaru Impreza WRX

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Comments

  • aaykayaaykay Posts: 539
    One question that raised quite a bit of ruckus here in the past, was over the WRX brakes. Based on your observation, are these the GT's larger front brake discs (with the 2-piston calipers) or are these the slightly smaller brake discs from the 2002+ WRX ?

    Thanks.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    You seem to think your opinion is of more value than others here simply because you're putting money where your mouth is—as you've told us a bunch of times.
    I can't think of anything more arrogant!


    Really Bob, well you should look back at what you said previously about Subaru wanting to sell more cars then. After all you and others have pointed out more than a few times Subaru is in the business to make money.
    my point was and is that in 6 months i will HAVE to buy a car. You have a 2006 and are not looking to buy one. So in 1,2 or 3 years or whenever it is you will buy a car then. This car is out now. You won't be buying it so it's not arrogant for me as a buyer to like or not like a car that I will actually be paying money for.
    Hardly arrogance. But you and a few others really want to argue with me. I am done discussing this with you as I have pointed out in the past that you have some valid points and yet not once had you acknowledged that I have any valid points yet the reviews from various magazines,tend to lean more towards what I was saying.
    Arrogance is bragging that Subaru listens to you. They don't listen to me, that's ok, I can decide whether or not to buy their car after I drive one.
    You have totally missed every point I have ever made.
    And since i'm sure nothing will make you happier that us not conversing any more then just don't reply and I won't reply to you any more either.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    I might also add that steve keeps comparing the WRX to an Accord and a Camry, of which there is zero in common in terms of anything other than price.

    Sorry Mike but I really want you to understand my point which it seems no one does and that is that cars cost money which is a a quantifiable thing. The new WRX is going to cost at least $25K or more if you get any option packages.
    There are a lot of cars available for that kind of money that are mainstream cars. It has been stated over and over and over by you guys and damn near everyone else that Subaru wants to be more mainstream. I don't think anyone disagrees with that since Subaru said it themselves so it's not a debatable point.
    I'm sorry you don't like my 2 choices for mainstream cars. I can pick some others but I picked the 2 best selling cars in that price range.
    I NEVER said the Accord drives better or is faster nor did i say that about the Camry. You guys are indicating that i did. Driving a Camry is like driving a toaster or a microwave oven. But I defy you to prove in anyway that it is not a mainstream car. It and the Accord are THE mainstream cars. Pick some other brand if you want but it won't matter. People do factor in price when they buy a car. I am simply pointing out much to the obvious disdain of Subaru fans that when you spend $25K+ on a car you sure want a god deal for your money and Subaru is courting the mainstream buyer now or rather trying to.
    Subaru offers AWD and that's about it. Not everyone is an enthusiast as you have pointed out. But those people still buy cars and will they really care that much about AWD or anything else just being average car buyers? I don't think they will. I think they won't care much about the "Driving experience" I think comfort and other issues will come into play during the purchasing decision.
    I guess I'm the only person who sees that tho.
    So consider me out of this conversation. I will probably follow it from time to time but obviously people would rather hear what they want to hear and at least a few have made it clear that I and my opinions are no longer welcome in this particular forum. So enjoy your cars whichever ones you guys buy and i'll do the same.
  • subytrojansubytrojan Monterey Park, CaliforniaPosts: 28
    Hi aaykay.

    Ah yes, the new car's brakes...

    Pedal feel is average, but the brakes grab well once the driver is really stomping on the brake pedal. However, braking ability is still limited by the *wonderful* all-season Bridgestone Potenza RE92A tires (just as the previous years' cars' braking ability were hampered by tire grip).

    It has been confirmed on NASIOC that the front brake disc part numbers on the 2008 WRX match the front brake disc P/Ns of the Subaru Outback 2.5 XT. The calipers themselves I'm guessing are from the Subaru Legacy/Outback or 2002-2005 WRX.

    I hope this helps clear things up.

    God bless,
    Loren
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,522
    Yeah - why is that they're insisting on that junk (I mean those tires that nobody other than Subaru seems to like). I could think of probably 5 or 10 different ones that are similarly prices and superior in nearly every aspect, from grip to wear, to ride quality.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,699
    No one here has missed any of the points you've been making, as you've pounded them into our heads so many times I can't even begin to count.

    What you fail to understand is that some of us may not agree with you. That's the difference. You take pot shots at me and others who welcome the new-found comfort and refinement of the WRX, saying that we should go by Camrys instead. Or because we're not in the market at the moment, and you are, that your opinion is more important than ours. So, yeah, I'm upset—and have every right to be.

    You constantly complain that Subaru doesn't listen to you. Can you blame them them? You've got a lot to learn in terms of people skills. There are ways of making points—and convincing others to seeing it your way. I'm clearly not the only one here who feels this way, as you've alienated just about everyone here with your in-the-face and confrontational negativism.

    As you've stated before—over and over and over—the WRX, and the direction Subaru is going with this car in terms of market position and audience, is not for you. You've even stated it's at the bottom of cars you are considering. So come to grips with it and move on to something you like better.

    Bob
  • subytrojansubytrojan Monterey Park, CaliforniaPosts: 28
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,907
    If you've already decided you don't like and will not buy the '08 WRX, and have already stated that opinion, then a discussion about that particular vehicle is probably not for you.

    Negative comments about the vehicle are fine, but let's not beat a point into the ground.

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Overall, the stock 2008 WRX is better than a stock 2002-2007 WRX.

    Thanks and yes I read your entire review.

    Apparently I'm the only one that did, because some people here still didn't get the point you made above, and I've highlighted again.

    Certain people here would do themselves a huge favor if they read your full review and then went to test drive a Camry. I'm fairly certain they feel nothing at all alike.
  • aaykayaaykay Posts: 539
    It has been confirmed on NASIOC that the front brake disc part numbers on the 2008 WRX match the front brake disc P/Ns of the Subaru Outback 2.5 XT.

    Thanks for the clarification. That certainly clears things up ! The OB 2.5XT has smaller discs than the GT and matches with what I stated when I observed the car during the NY Auto Show. Basically the 07 REX has 11.5/11.3 front/rear and the OB XT has 11.5/10.6 front/rear brake discs.

    The brake discs on the WRX NY show car were clearly smaller than the Legacy 3.0R parked next to it but some of the folks here (I believe Paisan) kept on insisting that the discs on the new REX are the GT's larger discs.

    Either way, since I am waiting for the 09 STI to get here, I am not impacted ! ;)
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,522
    I got the point and I could see its reasoning. In my opinion, much more relevant question is it better enough to warrant its "legend reborn" spin (definitely not) and more importantly to fend off new found competition in a segment of what I may call fast and/or premium compact car. Compared to introduction in 2002, the world changed considerably. There is stiffening competitive pressure from below (Speed3, new SRT-4) and above (A3) and at level GTI/GLI). Those cars are getting visibly better at what they are trying to offer. All of these vehicles have something strong going for them, from price to eqipment (both lux and hardware), to plain number horsepower, to styling, to handling. What does Subaru do? They CHEAPEN their AWD offering compared to its predecessors soften the suspension and make it look like Sebring from the front. They want to shed the "boy-racer" crowd and I think they will be successfull.

    How are they trying to compensate? Here is when the whole Camry comes in picture. - and it is not so irrelevant, as one may imagine. Hear me on this: WRX goes mainstream - i.e. trying to attract crowd sensitive to "fluff factor". Those people would touch old WRX because its high because road noise, not so nice interior, boy-racer image, but still want strong horsepower (number is very important to them) and price below 30K. Q: What do these people buy today? A: Six cylinder versions of Camry, Accord or Altima.

    So lets assume the "racer people" (hardcore, weekend and wanna-be's) are gone (bye Steve ;) ). Has Subaru done enough with WRX to attract "V6 midsize FWD for 25-30K people"?. Answer: I don't think so. They're trying to eat the cake and still have it.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • subytrojansubytrojan Monterey Park, CaliforniaPosts: 28
    aaykay, are you akoshy on NASIOC?

    If so, the brake information I was referring to I obtained from the "2008 Impreza: Official Pics and Info" thread stickied as the top thread in the News & Rumors section.
    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1237429

    Someone with the latest electronics part catalog accessed looked up and supplied us with the front brake rotor info.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Meh, to me, "Legend Reborn" is pure marketing nonsense. I'm sure Kia's marketing would have you believe they make the best cars in the world, too. So what? It's meaningless.

    Get TiVO. Honestly. Stop watching commercials, and you just won't care any more. I don't.

    We agree that the competition is much stiffer than it was in 2002.

    We disagree about the "cheapening" of the WRX. Adding refinement does not make it cheaper, in terms of feel or otherwise.

    In fact, I think the exact opposite is true. The 2002 had knock-out performance, arguably better vs. its lesser competition back then.

    But...it felt cheap! The interior had to make all sorts of apologies. It was cheaper back then, not now. People were turned off by:

    * hard plastics
    * non-lined storage bins everywhere
    * thin carpets
    * thin paint that chipped easily
    * thin and easy to dent sheetmetal
    * Neon headlights, far worse than any Sebring
    * missing content from JDM US models (STI had no stereo!)
    * lack of door frames, glass that rattled
    * cramped rear seating
    * no moonroof, no heated seats, no leather, no nothing

    The 2002 was all about cheap speed, and yes it felt cheap.

    So here's my question, where were you in 2002? Perhaps it is pure nostalgia but the memory of more than a few people in this thread is failing them.

    The 2008 model looks far more refined. The interior will not turn off people not willing to make an all-out sacrifice just for speed. It's no longer cheap speed, but just speed, I suppose.

    I also disagree about the "soften the suspension" comment, did you drive one yet? The outgoing one was too softly sprung, and needed springs and sway bar upgrades, plus tires, out of the box.

    How has that changed? The 2008 is not softer than the 2007, how would you even know if you haven't driven one, and those that have say it's better and the equipment tells us it slaloms a LOT faster now?

    The 2008 interior (especially) looks 100 times better. It no longer looks out of place in its price class. Design is much better, you can now get NAV, the door frames will make the glass stop rattling when you slam the door, and there is actually room for legs in the rear seat. It's much less "cheap" now.

    And no, it's not going after the Camry buyer, who is 15 years older and has 2.3 kids and a dog. That person isn't even aware of the drive wheels, doesn't take on-ramps at twice the posted speed, and doesn't know Petter Solberg from Peter Cottontail.

    WRX buyers will be the guys just out of college, single or married with no kids yet. They like cars but don't necessarily make a hobby out of it, they just enjoy driving. They would also not be caught dead in a mainstream family sedan.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,522
    Oh - you misunderstood. I just said AWD was cheapened (LSD), not the car itself.

    Regarding springs - I drove '07 was while engine was way better than my '03, I was not impressed by its suspension/steering feedback - at all. Now reports say '08 is even softer. Yes - I put it from others, not my own experience. When it comes, I'll drive it, but "I can't wait" factors is kind of gone by now.

    And no, it's not going after the Camry buyer, who is 15 years older and has 2.3 kids and a dog.

    That person buys 4-cylinder sedan, sometimes 6.

    WRX buyers will be the guys just out of college, single or married with no kids yet.

    How many of those buy now Solara, Accord Coupe, and will buy Altima Coupe - all 6-cylinders (and minority will buy sedan). I bet quite a few. They buy them for looks, features, horsepower and price below 30 grand - and yes, Subaru wants them with their new WRX.

    * no moonroof, no heated seats, no leather, no nothing

    Still no moonroof, no leather. So just heated seats - some Premium Pkg., indeed.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    OK, gotcha now. You almost gave me a heart attack there. I need to switch to decaf. :D

    I doubt a limited-slip diff costs more than an open diff in its place plus VDC.

    If it did, the WRX would have gotten VDC back in 2002. Subaru launched the Outback VDC in 2001, I believe.

    I'm sure VDC+open diff cost more and they waited until they felt enough pressure from the market to choose safety over cost. They de-cheapened it and made it safer.

    As for suspension, WRXs have always had lots of travel. Almost as if they were tuned for rally cross, not auto cross. A bit more clearance than competitors, too, perhaps because they expect more of their buyers to be in the snow belt.

    I still don't agree about what buyers the WRX is chasing. The sedan will compete a bit with the Civic Si, maybe Sentra Spec V, I guess. I don't see it competing with Accords or Camrys.

    The hatch? GTI and Mazda3 (including Speed3). Not A3, though, have you priced those with Quattro? You could get a Tribeca Limited for that kinda money.

    Subaru still has AWD against those. FWD will turn off a lot of shoppers looking for performance. And fewer people will be turned off by the WRX's new interior.

    I see it attracting the same people as before, and sealing the deal with a few more of those people.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,522
    I still don't agree about what buyers the WRX is chasing. The sedan will compete a bit with the Civic Si, maybe Sentra Spec V, I guess. I don't see it competing with Accords or Camrys.

    The hatch? GTI and Mazda3 (including Speed3). Not A3, though, have you priced those with Quattro?


    I guess we have to agree to disagree. Si, Sentra - wrong price segment - I see very few shelling extra 5+ grand to get WRX.

    Speed3 is closer but still cheaper, even when factoring AWD as 1K - and I suspect it's the strongest competitor, as it offers more power, great looks and features and it reportedly handles better on streets than current WRX.

    A3 - obviously I did not mean to imply they'd go after those who buy V6 AWD. I read somewhere 2.0T AWD's so considering current FWD starts 25.5K and AWD will cost 1 grand or so, it's close enough. Even w/o AWD you get better styling and (probably still) interior, badge, moonroof. For "premium oriented" people it is an equitable exchange for power and AWD, even if the total cost comes a little higher.

    Finally - I'm not saying new WRX is competing w/ Accord or Camry. However, being in the same price segment as those coupe V6 versions their buyers are natural base for expansion and that's what I think Subaru is trying to tap with their "natural" base being more competitive than ever.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I don't think street prices will be $5k apart, probably closer to $2-3k street prices. Isn't the Civic getting list prices?

    AWD usually costs about $1750, so you're way low on the value of that.

    Unless they changed things recently, the A3 only came with Quattro on the V6 model, priced in the mid $30s. Another price league, basically.

    The VW R32 will have AWD and would compete with the WRX, and now the Subie actually has an interior that won't embarass itself in that company.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    WRX buyers will be the guys just out of college, single or married with no kids yet.

    How many of those buy now Solara, Accord Coupe, and will buy Altima Coupe - all 6-cylinders (and minority will buy sedan). I bet quite a few. They buy them for looks, features, horsepower and price below 30 grand - and yes, Subaru wants them with their new WRX.

    No guys buy Solaras :P

    Also it looks like the R32 is only an automatic, so I don't think that is the same market (kind of the opposite of the Civic SI and MS6 market).
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,522
    I just disagree with your entire premise that cars are in direct competition if they have the same drive system. It's more important what goes in minds of people buying them and what options they consider. So there is very easy to imagine somebody cross-shopping A3 2.0T w/ FWD for say 28K with WRX for the same price and weighing what they get. Not everybody is a racer and "has to have" AWD. So if the price, size, utitlity and performance are within reasonable match, the vehicles become competitors, even if unintended or not exactly in the same segment as designated by magazine people.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,522
    Also it looks like the R32 is only an automatic,

    :surprise: :surprise: :sick: :sick:

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    A3, though? We're talking about a FWD hatch from a luxury manufacturer. A premium hatch, an oxymoron in the USA.

    They sell in such tiny numbers as to be almost insignificant in the overall market. If they dropped it noone would notice (VW would just sell more GTIs).

    R32 is DSG, true, forgot about that.

    WRX is unique in offering AWD plus a true manual trans at this price level.

    So I guess it *has* to be cross shopped with cars with different powertrains. LOL :D

    Still, Camry? Accord? I just don't see it.

    Put it this way - if you end up buying one of those, you weren't truly serious about buying a performance car. thinking about it, maybe, but not seriously.

    People may want a hot hatch, bang for the buck, or practical performance. All these paths would still lead you to a WRX on your short list.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,522
    I think here is where our communication breaks - WRX is not a performance car, IMHO (STI is). It is fast, but it's not really performance. So, as such it is legitimate to cross-shop it with more "mushy" cars, as long as their price and basic performance figures match - and there are a few.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I see it as a sliding scale.

    To me, the WRX is closer to the STI than it is to the Camry. Especially if you tune it (springs, sways, tires, maybe a chip).

    My litmus test it simple - would it be as fun as my Miata? The WRX is quicker and I could use it all seasons. It would pass that test.

    Camry would fail. If I won a free Camry in a contest, I would give it to my wife. Yes, I would still drive a 14 year old Miata and give my wife the brand new car I got for free.

    Toyota makes great cars - I own a Sienna! Don't get me wrong. Wonderful vehicles for passengers to be in comfort. Spacious, quiet, we love our van.

    I just don't want to drive it when I don't need to, it's just no fun at all.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,522
    Well I know it's semantics, but fun yes, performance - not really. WRX makes a relatively short leap to STI in certain aspects, but pricewise, extra 5-8 grand is whole lot of mullah (assuming new STI will a little short of 35K on the sticker).

    And Camry is probably worst example. It was probably mentioned as one of those extreme figurative speach points rather than real. However, new Altima Coupe or Accord are more relevant

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I can actually see the Altima coupe being comparable. Nissan made the new one shorter, lighter, and on a shorter wheelbase than the sedan.

    Is Nissan offering a manual on that one, or is it CVT only?

    The Accord just seems so....big. Bigger than a Legacy, even. It only has price in common with the WRX.
  • saedavesaedave Chicago, ILPosts: 685
    This discussion is missing another possible purchaser: The buyer who was buying a Legacy GT wagon. The interior size is about the same as is the powertrain and the price is right. Dropping the GT wagon may not matter with the same car available with a slanted rear hatch. If the turbo lag is less than on the older GT, so much the better.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,522
    True - perhaps TSX, which could be had for below 30K and is also aimed at younger people is more. Of course, it's different too, but again I see it as a "trade-off" game within similar price. Making WRX larger inside and more civilized (and more expensive) brings it much closer to TSX than before. Faster, but no leather. Smaller, but faster. Etc.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,522
    That's me, exactly. Lack of sunroof and leather is actually a big turnoff for me. Regarding size, I have to see it to believe that smaller outside will still get me similar inside.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, TSX is closer than the Accord, though actually the TSX is almost exactly the same size as the Legacy, and both are sedan only.

    I guess the new WRX is close in size to this Legacy, and the next Legacy will likely grow, so we probably will see some cross shopping.

    It's funny, when the 2002 came out, there was a guy shopping a WRX vs. an Isuzu Vehicross. Seriously.

    I guess seeing Accord, Camry should not surprise me.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,699
    I sort of seeing the new WRX as going after the original Legacy GT customer. I'm talking about the GT w/o leather, moonroof, which Subaru dropped a few years if you recall.

    Also, I think Subaru should have called it the S-GT, and not the WRX, like they do in Japan. The reason being the "WRX" label carries certain "expectations" that no longer are true for this model and its new role within the Subaru lineup. I'm convinced that is part of all the negative hoopla we see here and elsewhere.

    I also hope they offer an STI-lite, which falls in between the new WRX and the full-bore STI, that will address all those wanting a WRX, but are disappointed with this model. Keep the STI wide body flares and taut suspension. Give it 225/45x17 tires and the Legacy GT power rating.

    Bob
This discussion has been closed.