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2008 Subaru Impreza WRX

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Comments

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,428
    They installed the 2.4l engine in 2002 and kept the same engine, same AWD system, it was not a redesign.

    Hmmm... Subaru's "legend reborn" has (almost) the same engine, tranny and (I think) AWD as they did in 2005. What does that say about them?

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Anyone else feel like we're having 3 conversations at once? :D

    Subaru took a page from BMW's book - seperate the introduction of new engines from new platforms so you have fresher products.

    When you stagger those, you have more to talk about, and give customers more reasons to come back to the dealer to sample the new engine or new vehicle.

    The basic engine is the same, some simple re-tuning, but yes it's a carry-over. There was nothing wrong with it before.

    Ask Bob, he owns one. He said he wished it were a little more quiet and refined.

    Subaru is addressing exactly those things. Bob didn't ask for more power (doesn't need it).
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,428
    I don't have much of a problem with the engine, but the 4-speed auto is a disgrace. 5-speed manual is "a bit" disappointing, but I could still live with that. My experience with Subaru tells me that their "all new" models have a good "excitement" value, but two years later one get MUCH MUCH better deal for the money. Then 2 years from then even added features do not make it much better buy, as it visibly ages. Lets see examples:
    WRX - 02-03 fantastic start, but 06 was probably the sweet best one for me as best looking interior and exterior and 2.5 engine (except steering that was somehow lost in translation from earlier models). 07 suddenly looks really old.
    Legacy/Outback - similarly good start in '05, but each year brought some substantial content improvements, from better crashworthiness (06) to SI-Drive (07) and FINALLY steering wheel (08). Except of course their terrible decisions of dropping manual from Legacy wgn (06+) and dropping Legacy wagons altogether (08).

    Conclusion? Best Impreza will be 2010. They'll fix terrible grill, awful tail lights, we will see CVT or 5-speed auto w/paddles (or perhaps even DSG of sorts - who knows), perhaps even 6-speed MT of WRX, there may be new engine (perhaps still 2.5 but w/ even more pizazz) and they'll add some lacking features in the interior - sunroof, leather, perhaps HID, perhaps more. Those buying today will feel "cheated". ;)

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    4EAT is a mistake, agreed, but it sounds like they were working on a CVT already. I bet we see that one year after the intro.

    It's funny, though, I wouldn't even consider a WRX with an autotragic. Just seems like a waste.

    I hope they get it together for the Forester. A 4EAT will be a mistake given everyone else in that segment has 5 or even 6 ratios.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    Anyone else feel like we're having 3 conversations at once?

    Yeah, but its interesting, and really doesn't have so much to do with the WRX anymore at all. I just hope it looks better in person than the pics I've seen so far.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    :D

    It does a little.

    I guess what features would help sell the 2008 WRX, any how.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    So Steve - don't jump all over the place. Mitsubishi looks better, indeed, but so far there is nothing from them to match '08 WRX that we could intelligently talk about.

    Granted the WRX has no competitor from Mitsubishi The Ralliart version won't be out until after the EVO is released. The WRX seems to offer very little for the extra $8K it costs tho. One of the forums I am on had pics of the 2008 WRX's on a car lot somewhere, and they were sedans so I guess the new cars are arriving now at dealerships.
    The WRX has to offer something for the money and I don't see that it's worth an extra $8K over the base Impreza but I could be wrong. Driving one will tell me that straight away. I've seen pics of the STI and it is not significantly better looking than the EVO as it still has the horrible nose on it. Body cladding can only hide so much and the pics and sound clips of the new EVO make the engine sound tinny and like an old dodge colt but the car looks really great. it probably won't be as reliable as a Subaru but Subaru went the wrong way with the styling and some other mechanical issues.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    People that buy a WRX for track purposes will likely get an STI anyway, so it simply doesn't matter.
    Therefore no muss, no fuss. If you're a true enthusiast and want a track car the STI is for you. The regular WRX is now being equipped with VDC since it's a safety feature that is FAR more appealing to a broad market, and even a requirement to make the IIHS Top Safety Pick list.
    Admit this - being an Top IIHS Safety Pick is about 87.3 BILLION (*) times more marketable than having an LSD to a mainstream, car buying public. Maybe even 87.4 billion.


    Yes, I agree that Subaru is trying to sell cars to a broader audience. No I do not think it will work in the long run.
    Yes I really do get Mikes point about guys who race will buy an STI after all what's an extra $8K or so, nothing really if you race.
    The looks are bland so it will appeal to people who are sick of their Hyundai's not having AWD and will probably buy a Subaru instead.
    yes i also agree many more people buy cars measured on safety issue alone. 5 star crash test scores and traction control 30 airbags etc....
    Also true that most people don't have a clue how their car even works and even few can drive a manual transmission.

    That said Subaru does not care about the very people who helped them in the early days and is not interested in the enthusiasts and if you want that sort of thing then put up your money for the STI or shut up! That is what Subaru is saying to me and a few others in this forum as well.
    Fine, ok, Subaru can laugh all the way to the bank. Let's see how big a deposit they are going to make once they tick off all the people who would have bought a WRX but don't want to spend over $30K for a Turbo and sport suspension and an LSD.

    So simple, yes and it's been steering me away from Subaru and If the Ralliart was coming out before the EVO it might matter. But BMW money for a Subaru which is a niche vehicle that is trying to go luxury and out of the niche market that IT created. Let's see them pull this off.
    I think it won't work. Wait until it gets out about the changes and how the car drives, maybe it's better. But I think Subaru buyers are in general pretty smart.
    So let's just wait and see what happens. ;)
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,428
    Sure, but that's quite different than saying "Oh I don't like WRX, cause Evo is better", which your almost did. You keep saying WRX is "Only" a better engine than 2.5i for 8 grand. I beg to disagree. You get upgrades in at least several crucial areas:
    1. 30% more hp in engine
    2. transmission
    3. suspension
    4. brakes
    5. wheels
    6. seats (believe me - it's a big issue)

    I can't say about interior.

    By the way - Joe Spitz lists read LSD as standard on '08 WRX. He may be wrong (as the site is clearly developing), but if not wouldn't that be funny?

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    Sales are already up in Japan, so this is not just my opinion, by the way.

    No offense but so what? It's a new model, of course sales will be up. The thing is will this tactic by Subaru work in the long run or fail. It's not like Subaru hasn't tried things in the past and failed.

    You guys can justify Subaru removing the LSD all you want and love that new exterior but that doesn't mean it's going to sell after the initial hoopla dies down.
    I just don't know why anyone who is unhappy with Subaru taking out the LSD gets so blasted for that opinion. It's not just me that thinks that way either.
    Here is a link with pics of the new 2008 Subie on a car lot.
    Enjoy :)

    http://forums.motortrend.com/70/6355041/the-general-forum/new-wrxs-on-the-lot/in- dex.html
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    Sure, but that's quite different than saying "Oh I don't like WRX, cause Evo is better", which your almost did. You keep saying WRX is "Only" a better engine than 2.5i for 8 grand. I beg to disagree. You get upgrades in at least several crucial areas:
    1. 30% more hp in engine
    2. transmission
    3. suspension
    4. brakes
    5. wheels
    6. seats (believe me - it's a big issue)


    We covered the increase in HP due to the turbo already, part of my $8K that i said wasn't worth it and as far as the other stuff well for $8K you could do far better aftermarket and since according to other posters only guys who race want this kind of car anyway and will buy an STI.
    You can upgrade the WRX from base probably better for less and buy whatever turbo you want. My point is $8k is a lot of money for what they are giving you which except for the new and ugly sheetmetal and a nicer interior doesn't seem like it's worth the premium at this point without having driven the car.
    Edmunds isn't the only forum and other forums out there are talking about this and it's generally more negative than positive.
    As I said let's just see how the car drives and how it competes. It's already on dealers lots as we speak.
    Also keep in mind that I like the look of the EVO much better I think they did a great job with the look of the car but the sound bites from the motor were awful. It had a raspy and tinny sound like an old Dodge Colt.
    No idea how it drives but was the real deal and no camo on it. The sound bites were posted on the Lancer Forum.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,428
    OK - you got me lost here. Are we talking 2.5i - WRX jump, or WRX-STi? First you say "I don't want to buy WRX, cause it's too much", than you say "It's easy to upgrade WRX". Man - decide what you are talking about. Then you keep saying Evo this or Evo that, which makes absolutely no sense in context of WRX (STi - different story, but it has no bearing on WRX - none whatsoever).

    We get it - you think it looks like crap (so do I) it's way too expensive for what it is (I don't - although I wouldn't mind couple of things, obviously) and you feel hurt by not getting LSD (I'm not - not really).

    Allright - we all have our opinions and it's OK to disagree and try to convince each other - that's what this forum is about. The problem is that in support of yours you throw anything short of saying Ferrari looks better and see how it handles and why Subaru isn't getting me that kind of car for 25 grand. That's where my attention really breaks.

    I think I'm getting tired. Aren't you? We keep repeating the same stuff over and over. Buy it or not - I don't care. I probably won't, either - for different reasons.

    At the end - we really can't say as much until we see it at dealers' lots and get final brochures.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • Kirstie@EdmundsKirstie@Edmunds Posts: 10,676
    I'm with you - nitpicking every detail and re-hashing every argument gets really boring, and makes it tedious for others to participate in the discussion. Let's move on.

    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,428
    I just got confirmation from Subaru rep (by email). Aux input is part of "premium pkg" for both WRX and 2.5i. Pretty stupid - wouldn't you say? So WRX becomes "old TR". One thing that 2 grand "premium" without sunroof at least is a plain travesty. I bet next year some of those "premium" things will make it to base or there will be Special Edition. Whatever :(

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Subaru does not care about the very people who helped them in the early days

    You think 2002 (the first WRX) was the "early days". You're kidding, right? Is that what you meant?

    If so I'm just flabbergasted.

    We formed the Subaru Crew back in 1999. I wouldn't even call that the early days, but Subaru had a more well defined demographic back then than it does now.

    When the WRX came along it made a few of the old timers happy to have a turbo to upgrade to, but it also brought along a lot of boy-racers and honestly watered down a lot of what we had in common.

    that doesn't mean it's going to sell after the initial hoopla dies down.

    Initial criticism is more like it. The amount of negative comments on the styling of the new WRX is simply unprecedented. There was a huge outcry.

    When when it hit the streets in Japan, it sold better than expected.

    No, that's not the USA, but I don't expect any different here.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,428
    With "premium Package" it is now $27,600 MSRP (hatchback). I had mine in 2003 for about $23.5K (AND 3.9% APR for 60 months) plus accessories, it was close to $26K MSRP. Equipment level was about the same as the current "premium" minus contemporaries (aux, steering wheel), safety features (curtains and VDC) - and the interior was hum-drum even for 2003. Engine was 2.0, but lets not hold it against the original version, as 05 came with 2.5 without much of a price bump.

    So - accounting for a little inflation (say 10% over 5 years), increased material costs, it's not that bad at face value against its original intro. Will it hold against the competition? That remains to be seen. I just wouldn't call it "Premium" - suggests much more than just better stereo and a few aesthetic effects.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    Initial criticism is more like it. The amount of negative comments on the styling of the new WRX is simply unprecedented. There was a huge outcry.

    The few pics I've seen are pretty ugly, I am guessing it looks better in person.
  • jsduganjsdugan Posts: 1
    Is it just me, or does the interior look almost identical to my 03 Mazda Protege5!??? Am I just being negative - not that I don't like my interior.....
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I disagree. I think that not having 35k to drop on a car doesn't exclude someone from being an enthusiast. I think I was more of an enthusiast with a $2000 SE-R track sl** (which did have a LSD, btw )than a 35k STI.

    That said Subaru does not care about the very people who helped them in the early days and is not interested in the enthusiasts and if you want that sort of thing then put up your money for the STI or shut up! That is what Subaru is saying to me and a few others in this forum as well.
    Fine, ok, Subaru can laugh all the way to the bank. Let's see how big a deposit they are going to make once they tick off all the people who would have bought a WRX but don't want to spend over $30K for a Turbo and sport suspension and an LSD.


    Here is the thing. If you are going to be driving in HPDE, Wheel to Wheel or Rally, then you are prepared to lose a $25K car, since insurance doesn't cover your car in a competition (even State Farm who used to cover specifically excludes it now) so essentially what we are doing is splitting hairs here.

    You guys are upset that the MID-LINE car doesn't come with the LSD. I don't see this as alientating buyers. This would be the equivalent of BMW drivers complaining that the 335i coupe doesn't have an LSD but the M3 does. Same exact scenario here, the manufacturer packages items in the various trim levels to suit what the majority (not all) the prospective buyers will want.

    Apparently BMW feels the same as Subaru cause the mid-trim 335i comes with traction control, but no LSD available. The M3 has the M-lock variable rear LSD on it. The M3 also gets lightened suspension components, very similar to the lightened suspension components present on the Spec B v. non spec B and STi v. non-STi versions of the car.

    What Subaru is doing is smart, they are basically making the STi the "enthusiast/performance" version of the car with the mainstream getting the similar vehicle but with a more livable setup for the masses.

    No one is saying the Subaru is trying to knock Toyota or Honda off their pedestals, anyone who thought they were would not be very smart. However what Subaru is doing is attempting to take a small portion of the Honda/Toyota crowd over to their cars. Think of it this way, even if Subaru only takes a very small fraction of the H/T crowd it would be a BIG amount of sales increase for Subaru. H/T wouldn't even notice it but Subaru would feel it.

    -mike
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,428
    My "mainstream" complaint is more about generic looks than anything else.

    I'm not a racer and I have no problem with performance features.

    My much bigger complaint is that Subaru lags significantly to its mainstream competitors in terms of convenience/ambience and now even safety (yes, you heard it) features (mostly non-standard VDC and late curtain intro on Impreza line).

    So all I say - when they were "niche", it was forgivable to lag in this content, as the mojo was coming from something else. After mainstream move and watering down their strengths or quirks, they better have all good stuff ready and at good price, or they die slow and painful death, getting thrown into Saab-like oblivion.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

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