Snow/Ice winter tires

kiawah

Learned something new!

Went out and check all of our tires.......

I would (and have) used older tires, particularly when I had rim mounted snows that I'd put on vehicles only for the winter. They would rarely ever get enough miles to wear out, and I'd have them for years. But since moving south a decade and a half ago, no need for snow tires anymore!!

ray80

I'm still in the north and have on occasion used some winter tires that have had a little weather checking on them after 3 or 4 years. I try to do better now

chimo77

I have a 2008 Sienna Ltd -
came with tires P225/60R17 Bridgestone EL42Z
I would like to put winter rims/wheels & tires on van .
looking to find second hand vs $1000 for new set
Do I have to go with 17 inch rims & tires?
will 16 inch rim & tires work ?

mz6greyghost

According to Tirerack, a set of 16x6.5 wheels and either 215/65-16s or 215/70-16s would work.

Click me!

ex_tdier

I have narrowed down three different sets of tires.

I basically need the tires for city driving when there's a dumping in the Pacific North West and for the icy streets that don't tend to get cleared until the warmer weather starts up. I read a few comments and it was reported that some tires are "squirmy". What does that refer to?

Basically, my tire size is 205/55R16 for my Mazda and the snow tires in question are:

Dunlop 3D,
newer Micheline X-Ice 2
General Artic

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks

bparr1

The Dunlop 3D is a pretty good tire. Lots of good reviews out there. The X-Ice 2 is new this year so it's hard to say how it would compare. Usually though, manufacturers try to outdo each other so one might surmise that since this is the newest of the bunch that it would be better. Time will tell.

As an aside, depending on your needs and how you drive, you might also want to check out the Pirelli Sottozero. The nice thing about this tire is that it's designed to also work well in wet not-so-cold weather like what you find in the Pacific NW. TireRack has your size on clearance at a very nice price!

kurtamaxxxguy

Did not know this forum was here...

I recently outfitted my '09 Forester XT from it stock Yokohama Geolanders (which I was told and read were fair at best on ice) for Nokian WRG2. A lot of research at the Nokian sites showed these folks are serious about designing winter tires, or all-season tires with winter capability.

So far the WRG2's have improved the ride and somewhat improved the gas mileage of the Forester. They have an XT rating and accept up to 51 psi - far more then the Yokos could. They also run more quietly on our very rough freeways (with a "dual pitch" sound, .vs. the Yoko's uniform, louder growl).
Winter is coming up here in Portland OR and hopefully these will perform well on icy roads we often have here.

Before these, on my older car, I had Goodyear TripleTreads which were absolutely useless on ice (My FWD Maxx often skidded sideways, and couldn't get up any hill with ice on the road). This year, it's WRG2 and AWD.

frise

just got a new 2008 AWD CR-V LX; which winter tires are recommended for south eastern Ontario -lots of wet snow and ice

frise

just reading about problems with the rear differential on AWD CR-V's 2002-2007; has the problem been fixed on the 2008's

ex_tdier

The Nordics have the Transport Canada emblem for meeting the standard for our winters....personally, I would recommend the Michelin X-ICE i2 (not the previous generation X-Ice).

driver100

:confuse: Help? I have a BMW 328i Cabriolet and it isn't great in the winter. Dealer recommends 4 snow tires. I have never used 4 snow tires. Is that really necessary? Then there's 17 inch Alloy wheels, 16 inch Alloy wheels, and steel wheels with discs (cost half of the 17" alloys)

I could buy a nice used car for the price of these!

Another thing, would it be good to check with a tire dealer rather than BMW?

What I would like to do is get 2 snows on steel rims.

david112

where do you live? definitely check with tire rack or other on line sites - keep the same rims, just switch tires off and on - Blizzaks are very good

kyfdx

You definitely need 4 winter tires.. You'll be amazed at the difference. You'll actually look forward to driving in the snow!

As noted, check out tirerack.com.. Your dealer is the most expensive place to buy tires/rims for a BMW.

driver100

Thank you david112 and kyfdx

Your suggestions sound very good, glad I asked.

Oh yes, I live in Canada near Toronto. Basically, I would say it actually snows maybe 5 times during the winter where snow or ice is a problem. Work is only 20 minutes away and my wife as an all wheel drive car for trips etc.
Thanks again.

psorter

I had two snows, but quickly bought two more, the car just doesn't handle right with only two, you feel one end of the car grabbing and other sliding.

Blizzaks are great, but they very soft and wear fast, half the tire tread is snow tire, when that wears down it becomes an all season tire (at least the one I bought was like that). During the second season I had them they turned back into all seasons and I started sliding again . The Nokia's I have now are in their 5th season and are still working great, but cost more. But nothing beat the blizzaks the first year I had them, amazing!

But as you said only 5 or so days a year I really need them, if that, it snows way more then that where I live but the roads are usually plowed and salted by the time I use them. So sometimes I wonder if they are worth it. The handling is really poor with them (especially the soft blizzaks, feels like I driving on erasers)

It may be cheaper just to call in sick on those few days I really need snows, or use vacation!

kurtamaxxxguy

for folks only facing a few days of snow, also consider auto socks as they are cheap (tirerack sells em for around $70 a set), work fine on ice and ok on anything up to moderately deep snow. Easy to put on compared to chains.

ex_tdier

Many garages and shops are refusing to install only two snow tires due to legal liability and safety issues.

driver100

It may be cheaper just to call in sick on those few days I really need snows, or use vacation!

Thank you very much - this is great information. If I go ahead you have convinced me 4 snow tires are better than 2. I might just go with plan C. Another thing I don't like about changing tires is trying to get 4 tires home. Storage is $400 at the dealer.

Plan B; is to buy a Suburu for the winter.

Plan C: Not drive on snowy days, which will be about 5 times during the winter. Work from home those days which I can do. Use my wife's all wheel drive if we have to go out. Go to Florida in February. Just hope they don't make snow tires compulsory in my province, they just did in Quebec but their winters are much worse.

kurtamaxxxguy

AWD is no answer to bad weather if the tires don't grip. Check out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPE8vL5hlFA

last half of video shows a Subaru Outback sliding down the road and piling into another car.

If getting a Subaru, be sure Nokians or something decent's on the wheels. The stock Yokohama or Bridgstones are weak on snow and nearly useless on ice.

driver100

That video would make anyone buy snow tires. Try it at this site if you have trouble connecting;
very icy conditions
That was fascinating. Wonder if snow tires would have hlped that much...looked like real slippery ice and major slope! :sick: :sick: :sick:

mz6greyghost

Definitely check out Tirerack.com. I just priced out a set of 4 16" alloy rims and winter tires for less than $1000, MUCH less expensive than a decent used Subaru (in other words: not abused or 10 years old).

A few other pointers:
- Stick with 4 snow tires, as stated by others.
- Blizzaks are indeed excellent snow tires, for the first two years. After that, they're indeed no better than all-seasons. I've had excellent luck with Dunlop and Michelin snow tires, each lasting 4-5 years, all offering excellent snow traction throughout.
- Even if you don't deal with snowstorms every week, I've found snow tires to work well in cold weather, dry or wet. They're a HUGE improvement over ANY summer tire, and most all-seasons, when the temps drop below freezing.
- The peace-of-mind they offer is stunning, especially if you've driven on all-seasons during the winter. Both my cars came with decent all-seasons as standard equipment, but they run snow tires/wheels from Thanksgiving to mid-April, and I can't imagine driving ANY car without snow tires anymore...

driver100

mz6 You have convinced me...if I could do it for $1000 I definitely would. And I like your comments about the different brands. I will look around to see if I can get a similar price up here in Canada.

Thanks for the valuable info. :shades:

driver100

Just wanted to let you know what happened;
Called 3 tire stores and total packages with rims were about $2000 Cdn or about $1600 U.S. Then I realized they probably weren't giving me prices for Run Flat Tires, so I checked and they weren't.
One dealer had tires for $200 each and he said there was no advantage to putting them on rims...in fact it was more costly because of the air pressure sensers, so he could put on snows for under $1000. He said run flats would be $500 each - $400 U.S.

Then I thought, maybe the dealer price of $1700 on with rims was better especially if they are talking Run Flats. So, the dealers price includes 4 RFTs, on steel rims, all balanced and ready to go, plus 4 tote bags, they know 2 will fit in the trunk and 2 on the back seat....and thats about $1300 U.S. installed so not bad considering.
They are Blizzacks and I just looked up a great article that explained why the Blizzack won't last as long;

Michelin claims its new tire will last 75 per cent longer than its main rival. The unnamed rival, I suspect, is the Bridgestone Blizzak. And that vast difference in wear rate would be based on the fact the Blizzak is a multicell compound for only 55 per cent of its tread depth. The remaining 45 per cent of the tire is a standard winter compound.

To read more; Snow Tire Info

Your comments were a big help. I really thought 2 snow tires would be enough, and I thought I would try to get through the winter without snow tires. But for $1700 the peace of mind is well worth it.

mz6greyghost

Which set of tires did you decide on?

Mr_Shiftright

I doubt there's a tire in the world that would have made much difference. However, studded tires on four wheels PLUS a good driver might have at least gotten off to the side of the road without serious mishap, don't you think? They race on ice in Sweden after all :surprise:

driver100

Which set of tires did you decide on?

mz6 I had to go with the Blizzacks because that is part of the special package to get it at that price, all balances, with wheel covers, BMW knowledgeable staff (air pressure guage to be considered) and tire totes. I would like to have gotten the tires that last twice as long - Michelins and Dunlops, but I only do about 12,000 miles a year so these should last longer than I keep the car.

This is part of what the article said about how long tires last.....
Michelin claims its new tire will last 75 per cent longer than its main rival. The unnamed rival, I suspect, is the Bridgestone Blizzak. And that vast difference in wear rate would be based on the fact the Blizzak is a multicell compound for only 55 per cent of its tread depth. The remaining 45 per cent of the tire is a standard winter compound.

Blizzacks are supposed to be extremely good along with Michelin and Dunlop, with the other 2 lasting longer. They all are far superior to the other tires that don't have the latest technology.

driver100

However, studded tires on four wheels PLUS a good driver might have at least gotten off to the side of the road without serious mishap, don't you think? They race on ice in Sweden after all

Mr_S, I wouldn't have wanted to be on those roads with studs and chains on my tires!

Mr_Shiftright

I remember seeing videos of US heavy tanks sliding off roads, so if it can happen to them it can happen to you. Of course, they win every argument in a collision. :P

pedrok

My OEM size is 205 55 r16.
If I get winter rims that are 16 x 6,5, Can I put P225 60 R16's on them and what effect would the larger size have.

A friend is willing to GIVE me some one year old winter tires, but I was wondering what the larger size might do?

driver100

I remember seeing videos of US heavy tanks sliding off roads,

I could be wrong, but I don't think those big rigs have snow tires on them. Do they change 18 wheels every season?

I get my 4 snow tires next week. though I don't like paying $1700, I think it will be worth it in that one accident would cost way more than $1700.

I am going ahead based on the comments from this site and the facts it lead me to look up.

kurtamaxxxguy

Tried them and my Forester XT today on Portland local roads. Turned out ODOT declared, unknown to me, that Chains were required on all Portland roads. And quite a few other cars were having some traction problems.

The WRG2's worked fine on 1 - 2" of snow, less well on ice (every so often, a wheel would lost some traction on an especially slippery spot of road, and the XT would momentarily slip sideways, but would quickly recover).

For XT "Hoons", accelerating in a turn on an icy road will definitely cause the XT tail to swing out. Stop accelerating to let the XT recover.

hammerhead

I find it mildly amusing that chains are required with only a couple inches of snow on the ground. Granted, it's Portland, with many hills, usually milder weather, and folks not used to snow on the roads, but I still find it amusing.

Disclaimer: I'm not being a Portland basher at all - I have family there, it's a wonderful place to visit, but maybe not when everybody's sliding around.

Cheers!
Paul

kurtamaxxxguy

It's not the snow, it's the ice that's the bugaboo up here. The latest storm started out as rain, which was frozen on the ground as the Canadian arctic winds blew in with more snow.

In my apartment lot, in which the road has turned to ice, several cars were spinning tires wildly, others needed chains, a few (including mine) managed OK on their winter tires, as long as we were careful.

Mr_Shiftright

A car is totally defenseless against sheer slick moist ice. I don't care what you put on the wheels, you're pretty much screwed although you might be able to tippy-toe to the side of the road.

legge

Hey there -- I have a bonehead question as I'm a very recent transplant to Oregon and am in CA for Xmas. I need to drive back in a couple of weeks and need to ask this:

Do I NEED snow/winter tires? I travel over the Siskayous all the way up to Salem. I have NO clue whatsoever whether chains are good enough, and, if so, what kind of chains? Or do I have to get snow tires?? AArrrgggh! He'p!

kurtamaxxxguy

Right now, if you do not have winter tires, don't try driving up here - many roads in Portland are mostly ice and snow. You will skid right off the road or get nowhere fast. Oregon does not use salt on its roads

Wrt chains, if your car/truck has room in the wheel wells, there are "quick fit" chains that are a little easier to install than most, but expect to take some time with them. I do not know which brand is best.
An alternative are AutoSocks, which are easier to install and work well on ice and most snow and (up to 30 mph) on bare roads for brief periods.

Wrt tires, if you have space for dedicated winter tires, there are many to choose from. Oregon allows studs for a few months per year.

If you want to have only one set of tires, M&S won't do it as they loose traction fast once freezing temperatures arrive. The only All Season Winter-rated tires I know come from Yokohama and Nokian, and the Yoko's won't work as well in summer as the Nokians will.

ex_tdier

I got these tires installed several days ago. Initially, I was very impressed with the soft ride but as soon as I went on the highway, I felt noticable vibration. This is in contrast to the previous generation X-Ice which had very little road noise/vibration.

However, that was not what disappointed me. These tires are marketed as a studless ice and snow tire,. Ice comes before snow and studless is promoted. One can get the impression that this rubber compound can be just as good as studded tires. Well, no....absolutely not. These tires adhere to ice better than all seasons only when driving exceptionally slow, barely moving. Not practical unless you're in an ice rink coasting applying the breaks while barely moving.

Another thing. The tire/tread is not made for pacific west coast climates like Seattle or Vancouver where they get lots of wet and slushy snow. This tread is simply not aggressive enough. It doesn't have the bite to get you going and surely no bite to stop you unless you're traveling less than 2 mph.

My suggestion before buying these tires is consideri going for something cheaper, say, chains or cables. These work exceptionally well and are easy on your pocket book. They'll also last longer too. If you must get snow tires, get the least expensive you can afford but are also Transport Canada severe winter rating approved. These tires are way too overpriced for the Pacific Northwest Region.

kurtamaxxxguy

Sorry to hear the X-Ice did not work for you.

Perhaps Nokian knows something Michelin does not - the Canola oil compound Nokian uses? :confuse:

My tests of the WRG2 were on a number of side streets with some moderate hills. Nearly all the roads were a sheet of ice covered by windblown snow in places.
Temperature was 32 - 24 degrees.

If the ice was wet, I would loose traction on one or more wheels momentarily, but the Forester XT never got stuck, including on a 10 - 15 degree hill with that wet ice.
I got up to around 5 - 10 mph and was still able to stop reasonably well if I was gentle. Jack rabbit starts or stops would definitely break the wheels loose.
This is the worst case I can think of.

If ice was typical (shiny but no visible water) or covered with snow, the traction was much better. There the XT started and stopped without trouble provided I was gentle with throttle and brakes.

These are winter rated but not dedicated winter tires. More aggressive winter compounds and/or studs would do better. But I'm very pleased with how the WRG2's work. Roads I tackled this year would have positively stopped my former TripleTreaded Malibu Maxx.

By comparison, a lot of FWD / RWD cars were slipping like mad, unless they had chains (quite a few did).

ex_tdier

I like your analysis. Just to give you an example. The ice was shiny with packed snow underneath, not much snow though with no visible water. The temps were around 29 to 26F. I was going around 10 mph when I braked and I ran through a stop sign. Fortunately, there were no cars around. These tires are marketed as a dedicated winter tire.

I wish there were more tire review sites that I could post my review so I could share my opinion on these new tires.

isellhondas

The Suskayous can be nasty and unpredictable. I would carry chains and have an emergency kit in your car. Blankets, water, flares, flashlights etc.

kurtamaxxxguy

Yes, the Oregon mountain passes require chains in bad weather. And an emergency kit or at least the bare emergency essentials are important.

I do not know if ODOT has approved AutoSocks as a workaround.

kurtamaxxxguy

This time came the big hills around Portland OR. We have several subdivisions built on Bull Mountain that have numerous winding, hilly streets.
Most of those streets were covered with snow-swept ice, occasionally sprinkled with a few cinders. Some hills approach 20 - 25 degrees.

One hill's lack of traction had sent a Jetta and a small MiniVan down their slopes. A number of FWD cars were spinning wheels as they tried to get going.

The XT with Nokians, in all but one case, just went up and down the hills. As before, speeds had to be kept low, but the XT stopped and restarted on any hill, and stopped when going down the same hills. The worst case was when the ice was wet - the ABS definitely kicked in for those braking situations. Accelerating, I did not see any VDC/TC warning lights but felt some of the wheels alternating traction. There was little hesitation and no violent spinning of wheels.

Only time the XT lost traction was when it was bounding/turning over a small hill at 5-10 mph. Loss of weight allowed tires to drift momentarily.

Overall, WRG2's seem to work

ex_tdier

The XT with Nokians, in all but one case, just went up and down the hills. As before, speeds had to be kept low, but the XT stopped and restarted on any hill, and stopped when going down the same hills. The worst case was when the ice was wet - the ABS definitely kicked in for those braking situations. Accelerating, I did not see any VDC/TC warning lights but felt some of the wheels alternating traction. There was little hesitation and no violent spinning of wheels.

That's interesting. Perhaps the tires weren't spinning due to traction control? The Michelin Ice Xi2s are one of the best if not the best studelss tire out there for ice. I was doing some more starting and going on ice today and my tires were spinning, irregardless how easy I was on the accelerator. I wish I could test drive these tires going up a snowy or icy hilll; however, my Mazda3 does not have traction control. I doubt it would make it.

hammerhead

Yep, it's the ice... I agree, as it is snowing over the top of these icy streets here in Spokane

Cheers!
Paul

kurtamaxxxguy

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-164378

shows a lot of cars failing to climb a snowed/iced hill in Waterford (near Portland, OR).

Mr_Shiftright

It's interesting to watch that video and notice how some cars have no trouble at all. I'm wondering if we are seeing different levels of driver skills, since it didn't look like all the "successful" cars were AWD types.

hammerhead

And check out the weather uber-wimps in Seattle - they close schools upon the mere THREAT of snow!! Chained up 80% of the fleet of school buses, then had to take 'em off because they were throwing sparks!

Cheers!
Paul

kurtamaxxxguy

A fair number of drivers in Portland are using Chains or studded tires (which are legal here). ODOT mandated them a few days ago. There were plenty of people adjusting them as well.

homefry1040

Dad's car currently has summer 195/70/14 tires, can I put Blizzaks that are 215/70/14's on it?

98 Camry-thanks in advance....

shipo

Hmmm, you can, but there are two issues to consider:

1) There is a very good chance that you will have fender clearance issues both during turning and when hitting bumps. Why? The 215s are fully 1.1" larger in diameter and 0.8" wider than the 195s that are currently on his car.

2) If you mount the 215s on the car, you will be traveling roughly 5% faster than your speedometer reads. Said another way, if you happen to roll through a speed-trap in a 65 mph zone on the highway and you "think" you're going 72 (per the speedometer), you'll actually be moving at just over 75. That might be just enough to get you a ticket.