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Toyota Tundra launch worse than expected

tundrahqtundrahq Posts: 5
edited March 11 in Toyota
The launch of the new Toyota Tundra seems to be going badly...Toyota is offering more rebates on this truck right after launch than they've offered on anything they've released in the past five years.

See this article for more info:

http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2007/03/30/new-tundra-launch-worse-than-e- xpected/
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Comments

  • gteegtee Posts: 179
    The new discounts that Toyota is offering on Tundra are having a big effect on truck prices of Nissan Titans.

    I have seen prices of Nissan Titan drop in recent weeks. You can easily get a Titan King Cab SE for under $20K here in Atlanta. Lets just wait until summer and gas prices get close to $3 per gallon for real discounts to kick in.

    Tundra is a nice truck, but its not that much better than competition for the price difference that Toyota wants for this truck. The reason Camry sells as well as it does is that its fairly cheap to buy and it has good resale value. There is no price premium for Camry over Accord or Altima. The same thing will happen with Tundra. There will be no price premium for Tundra over Ford or GM or Nissan Trucks. It will be priced the same as other trucks on the market. This means even bigger rebates in near future. :P

    The more people put off the purchase of Tundra, the cheaper they will get.
  • crimsono2crimsono2 Posts: 31
    The reason I think the rebates are coming in on the Tundra are less alarming than some may be lead to believe.

    On these forums when we conmpare the new Tundra to the domestic front-runners, we do it on features (which it is comparable to the domestics), and then price (MSRP). However, naysayers often claim that MSRP aren't a good measure for comparison because of all the domestic offers of rebates/incentives blah blah blah (which makes the domestic buy the better bang for the buck). So, now that Toyota is dropping down to the price level of the domestics by rebates and incentives, naysayers are now saying it's dropping because of poor sales and that the lackluster quality of the truck is now showing its true colors.

    No matter what Toyota does to get this truck in the hands of consumers (despite gas prices *already* at $3/gallon in California), naysayers will always find a way to say that Toyota failed in introducing this truck.
  • abac1abac1 Posts: 19
    I have been looking to buy a Tundra DC 4x4 with the 5.7L since the launch. I have looked at Ford and Chevy as an alternative. If you compare MSRP on the all three with equal features they do not seem to be that much price difference. The problem is in the Atlanta area this truck seems to be in short supply and dealers are unwilling to come of the sticker price much at all. The marketing assistance to dealer's don't do us the consumers any good if they don't pass it along. However the lots in this area are loaded with the DC 4x2 with the small V8. I hope the new incentives means the tide is starting to turn.
  • gteegtee Posts: 179
    The point is that Toyota needs to get of their High Horse with this truck and price it like other trucks on the market for this truck to take off. Its a good truck. I test drove it a month ago, and I was really impressed with the engine and the nice seats. The outside looks were so-so at best. The main point is that this truck is not worth the price premium that Toyota dealers are asking for it over their competition. I think that this is a very valid discussion.

    The real question is how much money are people going to loose by buying this truck early before the main rebates come into effect. We all know that rebates are coming soon. I am just amazed that people will spend an extra $2000 to drive a truck for an extra month or two. This is what this discussion is all about.
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Right now the numbers look like they might only do slightly better than last year, so I'm sure they're trying to bring their numbers up a bit. As stated here earlier, incentives have to be boosted... the truck market demands it whether Toyota wants to admit it or not. Once they start seeing $5K off of higher-end models, sales will increase, but gas prices aren't helping and this attitude of not dealing is only going to push away more and more people from buying...
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,180
    Yup, that is exactly how it is. Any opportunity to knock down the hype of the new Tundra will be executed. I think the truck is going to sell based on its merits, not its sales figures. Toyota is not looking to outsell the competition, merely they are looking to make the most profits and launch something right into the heart of the market. Then they can build the reputation amongst those who DO purchase the Toyota over the others and word will spread that they have built one helluva truck.

    I don't worry too much about what a few internet naysayers can do to damage the reputation of the Tundra. After all, they are nothing more than words on a computer screen, not concrete fact. I know personally the capabilities of the Tundra, and I know others who have purchased one. I think I'd rather rely on what THEY say based on experience than a bunch of closed-minded, blindly loyal GM fans who have sold this truck down the river before it even appeared.

    Think of it as their loss... :shades:
  • gteegtee Posts: 179
    Nobody is knocking down Tundra here. I think that all of the people agree that Tundra is a great truck. Its just that it is over priced compared to other trucks on the market. If you look at all of the road tests that were done by Edmunds and other car magazines, you will see that competition is very good. In some test Tundra wins, in some GM wins. I think that Nissan Titan is actually a closer competitor to Tundra then GM or Ford. They both have very good engines, the difference is that Nissan King Cab can be had for under $20K in Atlanta. The Tundra will set you back at least $26K. Now compare Altima to Camry, they are both priced about the same. Give it another couple of months and Tundra and Titan will also be priced about the same.

    Don't forge that the truck market is shrinking this year over all anyway. This due to slow housing market and high gas prices. Also don't forget that the new Texas truck factory that Toyota just built are only now starting to produce trucks. Until now all of the Tundra trucks that I have seen came from Indiana factory.

    Just put all of these factors together and it only leads to lower prices. All I am saying is that if you want to blow your hard earned money on a Tundra now, go for it. But if you are smart and wait for July-August time frame, I am sure that prices will come down by $2000 to $3000.

    Hey Toyota just introduced this truck and already there are rebates. For me $3000 is a lot of money.
  • bugchuckerbugchucker Posts: 118
    With Regular gas over $3/gal out here in the PNW, I'm surprised anyone is buying. Tundra sales up 8% in March. Everyone else down. GMC down 18%. Ouch!
  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    BUG.........Here are some CORRECT March sales figures
    Top 10 Pickups
    Sales Figures
    Year-to-Date (YTD) Mar-2007

    Ford F-Series
    171,651 -14.1% YTD
    March 2007: 71,481
    March 2006: 84,168

    Chevrolet Silverado
    152,715 +5.1% YTD
    March 2007: 55,626
    March 2006: 60,833

    Dodge Ram
    67,163 -1.0% YTD
    February 2007: 38,301
    February 2006: 38,709

    GMC Sierra
    47,790 +3.8% YTD
    March 2007: 16,503
    March 2006: 19,435

    Toyota Tacoma
    46,328 +7.9% YTD
    March 2007: 18,243
    March 2006: 15,662

    Toyota Tundra
    29,186 -10.7% YTD
    March 2007: 13,196
    March 2006: 11,800

    Chevrolet Colorado
    19,769 +3.0% YTD
    March 2007: 7,685
    March 2006: 8,355

    Nissan Titan
    18,847 -13.7% YTD
    March 2007: 7,563
    March 2006: 8,328

    NOTE: The tundra DOWN 10% YTD.................
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    geo9 -

    Since the new Tundra didn't even GO ON SALE until mid-Feb, and production of the old Tundra was halted MONTHS AGO for the changeover, JUST looking at ytd (year to date) sales is misleading (which, obviously, would be to your benefit).

    So, why not compare sales during March of this year (when the new Tundra was on-sale for the entire month) compared to sales during March of '06?

    Ford F-Series
    171,651 -14.1% YTD
    March 2007: 71,481
    March 2006: 84,168
    Down 15.1% FOR MARCH

    Chevrolet Silverado
    152,715 +5.1% YTD
    March 2007: 55,626
    March 2006: 60,833
    DOWN 8.6% FOR MARCH

    Dodge Ram
    67,163 -1.0% YTD
    February 2007: 38,301
    February 2006: 38,709
    Down 1.1% FOR MARCH

    GMC Sierra
    47,790 +3.8% YTD
    March 2007: 16,503
    March 2006: 19,435
    DOWN 15.1% FOR MARCH

    Toyota Tacoma
    46,328 +7.9% YTD
    March 2007: 18,243
    March 2006: 15,662
    Up 16.5% FOR MARCH

    Toyota Tundra
    29,186 -10.7% YTD
    March 2007: 13,196
    March 2006: 11,800
    UP 11.8% FOR MARCH

    Chevrolet Colorado
    19,769 +3.0% YTD
    March 2007: 7,685
    March 2006: 8,355
    DOWN 8.0% FOR MARCH

    Nissan Titan
    18,847 -13.7% YTD
    March 2007: 7,563
    March 2006: 8,328
    Down 9.2% FOR MARCH

    Hmmmmmmm, unless my eyes deceive me, when comparing March figures for '06 vs '07, the ONLY trucks to post gains are the Toyota Tacoma and Tundra.

    Methinks your prognostication regarding a failed Tundra launch to be wishful thinking......
  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    YAWN.............I could use the same EXCUSE for the
    GM full size 2500 GMT-900 trucks................

    I just posted other sales figures from another site.....
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "YAWN.............I could use the same EXCUSE for the
    GM full size 2500 GMT-900 trucks................ "


    Yes, you probably could. When did the new GM 2500 GMT-900 trucks go on sale?

    Look, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you - all I'm saying is that ONLY looking at 'year to date' sales for the new Tundra compared to last year is misleading since the new Tundra has only been on sale for a few weeks with YTD sales theoretically reflect sales over the full 3 months.

    Which is why accusing the new Tundra of being some kind of a sales flop is premature and unwarranted.
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    It doesn't matter how it is spun in magazines and such, fact is that monthly sales numbers are used when reporting whether sales have been increasing or decreasing in the automotive industry for at least the last 20 years. Investors look at these numbers to help determine the company's financial standing relative to actual production.
    Quarterly and yearly numbers are also produced that way. YTD is used primarily to average out the ups and downs of the months included but give little indication of the direction the company is going in.
    Fact is that sales for the 07 Tundra are up over the 06 Tundra at the same time as last year. The Silverado and Sierra numbers are down despite both being new models as well. The initial excitement for the new models tend to wear off mid-way through the model year when production has fully ramped up and the backlog of orders has been largely eliminated.
    So all that has happened is that Toyota hasn't gone through that phase yet with the 07 Tundra, but it is likely to happen mid- to late-summer and by then monthly sales will show more of a trend one way or another. As favorable as they are to Toyota right now, more monthly sales numbers are needed before we can see what is happening.
    The truck segment as a whole is getting hit by big increases in gas prices, so who knows how that will affect this market by the time summer is in full swing...
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    http://www.brandweek.com/bw/news/recent_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003562732

    DETROIT -- General Motors dealers are mad as hell and they're not going to take it anymore. A number of leaders at the dealership level, who believe GM's corporate ads aren't aggressive enough, have banded together to take Toyota head-on as GM continues to lose sales to its Japanese competition. >>>
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    I like this quote regarding GM's response to one of the dealer's radio spots:

    "An internal GM e-mail, obtained by Brandweek, reads: "This Georgia dealer probably obtained legal approval for the [radio ad] by holding the script out of his car window as he drove by the lawyer's office."

    Sounds to me like somebody is just begging to get sued......
  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    This line noted in that article..............

    Myth: Toyota would like the audience to believe the trailer is 10,000 lbs. Fact: It's a 5,000 lb. truck pulling a 5,000 lb. trailer. A little slight (sic) of hand? You bet."

    I wonder.............
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Well, it is interesting that these dealerships would make those types of claims and think that it actually convinces people to buy from them. When I talked to the Chevy salesman about the new Silverado a couple of months ago and told him about some of the discussions about claims that were made against the new Tundra, he told me outright that whether the claims are true or not, it is a mistake to make them. He mentioned that he said that not only are they polarizing in terms of creating this "image" of what a Chevy owner is supposed to be, but that it doesn't look good for a giant in the industry to try to stomp on a small competitor. What he meant was that Toyota is still quite small in truck sales, not Toyota overall.
    But still, I understood what he was saying. Whether or not the Tundra sales are great or a complete failure to those that are observing it, there is no doubt that it is just a fraction of the sales that the domestics make. Dealerships that make ridiculous claims are probably doing more damage to their own image than they are increasing sales for their brand. Keeping quite about it until it becomes a real issue (i.e. until there is actual data that the Tundra is taking away a significant portion of sales from the Detroit3) is probably the best thing that they can do. I think they did that with the Titan and its worked fairly well -- Nissan's customers for the full-size truck are fairly marganilized now (though improved bed lengths and truck choices may change that).
  • dssnuffydssnuffy Posts: 39
    That's why they call it a myth, geo. You forgot to quote the section.........

    "A Saatchi senior producer released an affidavit stating that the Tundra trailer bed was indeed filled with 10,000 pounds of cinderblocks."

    I got to tow 10,500 pound with a 5.7L 6-speed transmission Tundra last weekend and it handled like a dream. It had great towing torque over a large range of RPM.

    No need to wonder........
  • bostnwhalrbostnwhalr Posts: 128
    I was at an Easter event today with the kids, and had the chance to meet the owner of the local Toyota dealer. We started talking cars and I asked him how the new Tundra was doing. He winced and said that while it was ok, he was hoping for a stronger response. He felt like they were too nice and too pricey for people that would actually use them as work trucks (he mentioned putting a pile of bricks in the bed as an example). He actually said (and I'm not making this up), that if he was buying a work truck, he'd rather go down to the local GMC dealer and save $5,000. While I was taken back by his response, I appreciated his honesty. Pretty cool.

    Basically, what he was saying was that Toyota should have more aggressively priced their basic models and designed them more as work trucks. Obviously, the rebates reflect this new reality.

    Now before anyone flames me for being pro-GM or something, I actually like many Toyota products (I'm seriously considering the new 2008 Scion xB for my commuter vehicle).

    The other thing you have to keep in mind is that while the MSRP's are compatible with the domestic competition, the transaction prices are not. Ford and Dodge are both throwing significant rebates on their trucks to move them. Discounts of $6,000 - $9,000 are not uncommon. Even if the Tundra is a superior truck, between brand loyalty and lower transaction prices, it's not going to be an easy road for the new Tundra. However, the fact that they moved 13,000+ units last month, isn't all that horrendous. Yes, they are short of the selling rate of 200,000 annually. However, as availability increases (along with dealer discounts), I think sales will grow a bit.

    Just my $0.02....
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,180
    roflmao! That was some funny reading, thanks for the link.
  • ltdan2ltdan2 Posts: 17
    i was talking to my field agent today he said that his co. had about 10 new tundra's coming for thefield agents because the f150 heve had alot of trans. & front end problems in day to day oper.
  • ltdan2ltdan2 Posts: 17
    i was talking to my field agent today he said that his co. had about 10 new tundra's coming for the field agents because the f150 heve had alot of trans. & front end problems in day to day oper.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,855
    the comparison to a hippo was unavoidable.
  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    BOB.......Wrong article link.
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    Garbage article full of BS from a pseudo journalist representing an irrelevant auto company.
  • wberkwberk Posts: 6
    a few questions regarding the crewmax:
    - None of the dealerships in this area have the crewmax model....when will they be available in volume? If ever?
    - on toyota.com when you configure one, if you try to get the 4.7 liter it defaults to 5.7liter...I assume 4.7 liter is available in the crewmax?
    - I would assume that the 5.7 liter gets worse mpg then 4.7 liter but does the 6-speed make them similar in terms of mpg?
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