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Waxes And Polishes

the various topics we have on these products.
For the previous discussions please check out
the now closed Welcome Conference's What's the
best Wax & Polish? (Topic #235)
and Smart
Shopper's
What's the best wax & polish? -
Part 2 (Topic #970)
.

Catch yourself up and come back here to continue!

Bonnie Rick
Town Hall Community Manager, edmunds.com
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Comments

  • joecarojoecaro Posts: 44
    Question, Bonnie. Is this topic #8 under Maint and Repair Conference? I accessed this through your link, but it does not appear on the "Town Hall" web page and thus can't be accessed from there, as near as I can tell.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,167
    What is the consensus of using a (3 in bristle)
    body brush(with long handle) on the underside of
    the wheel wells, to remove dirt from normal or
    winter driving?
  • You are correct...we haven't technically opened these Conferences, so they don't show on our Conference lists yet.

    Right now we're in the process of moving topics over to these new areas, and freezing and linking them.

    In the meantime, feel free to bookmark the new Conferences and participate, and as soon as we are officially open for business, the new Conference lists will go up.

    We appreciate your patience and support!

    Bonnie Rick
    Town Hall Community Manager, edmunds.com
  • shomanshoman Posts: 97
    Ruking,
    I would recommend going to a car wash and getting as much as possible out with high pressure spray. If your wheel wells are painted, then try not to scratch the paint (and thus start more rust). If your wheel wells are undercoated, then brushes shouldn't do much harm, and you can always touch up the undercoat if you get it clean enough.
    By undercoat, I mean the old black tough stuff, the new waxy rust-proofing that some places use can be hurt by brushes, but it can be touched up. Amsoil makes an excellent trigger spray light undercoating that sprays on and is very light tan in just a couple of coats. Very good for protecting frame, undercarriage parts that have exposed metal. It must be put on in LIGHT coats, as it runs easily.

    Don
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,167
    #4
    The pressure wash is already being done. The wheel wells are painted but with rust proofing that is rough to the touch and not smooth like body paint. The brush has 3 in or so bristles that are meant for normal body paint(though I personally would not use anything other than a syn mitt or 100% cotton or syn sponge) I take it, you think it is ok after the high pressure routine!??
  • shomanshoman Posts: 97
    #5,
    I sure can't see why you can't use the brush in this case. Meguiars Final Inspection sprayed on undercoating can make a nice temporary spiff up for show purposes.

    Don
  • Rob360Rob360 Posts: 33
    Don-

    Since you didn't "see anything of consequence" that needed responding to in my last post (#482) perhaps you could clarify a few things for me in response to this post.

    In post #480, you state that:

    ""For my purposes a "few" weeks can be 6 to 12 weeks (or up to three months.) and that is what I have been saying most products tend to last. ""

    I think the key phrase there is the term "For my purposes". Most people certainly would not consider 12 weeks to be the same as a "few" weeks!

    But, more importantly, YOU do not seem to truly believe that your beloved Collonite lasts 12 weeks. If the prior phrase I posted from your own website wasn't enough, upon further reading I discovered this little gem:

    ""A good coat of wax should last about a month maximum. Especially if your car sees daily duty and bad weather. If it's not driven much and
    garaged much of each day, maybe two months. If you wash your car weekly or more often, then wax won't last longer.""

    Hmmm. Now, Don, for "your purposes" can you please explain how "..a month maximum" equates to three months???

    Remember, even though you qualify your statement above by saying the wax will last longer (up to two months) if the car isn't driven much and is garaged much of the day, in your post in this forum YOU stated that Collonite would last THREE months OR MORE even in SEVERE midwestern use!

    Why don't you come clean Don, and admit that your Collonite DOES NOT last "Three months or more".

    And while you are at it, perhaps you could explain WHY you have led others here to believe that Collonite lasts three months, when you yourself don't even believe that.

    In post 485 Don writes:

    ""My comments on my web site stand on their own.
    I stand behind them and believe in them. I put my thoughts and experience out there for all to see. ""

    And this is the reason for the title of this post. Which is it Don? Do you stand behind and believe in the comments on your website, or the comments that you post here on Edmunds. They do NOT appear to be one and the same. I dare say they are mutually exclusive.

    As far as "putting your thoughts and experience out there for all to see", I don't think this is necessarily a good thing. Especially when you give contradictory opinions, and then fail to acknowledge that fact. And to give advice like the following:

    ""Any wash product will strip wax off, thus my use of Ivory over the years, since no real wash product can clean and also "wax".""

    My god. If you are using Ivory to wash your cars, I am surprised your Collonite lasts more than a week. It seems that some of your "tips" would send us back to the dark ages of auto care! But, hey, that's just my opinion!

    Rob
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,167
    #7
    Actually Meguairs recommends waxing 8-10 times a yr, with a minimum of bi-annual polish/prep. The two systems are the Meguairs #26 a carnuba rich paste and liquid wax and also the Gold Class,which as a lower % of carnuba and emphasizes shine over protection. Actually the recommendation didn't change much whether a daily driver or parked in garage for up to 18 hrs a day.
    While my gut level feeling is that collonite might be marginally better, Meguairs, anyway doesnt seem to last much past 1.5 mo.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,167
    If you are using a dawn or ivory product, be forwarned that you have just removed most, if not all of the wax that was place on the paint. While there are many reasons for doing this; you do not have wax or polish protection left.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 46,002
    Dear Rob,

    I think the key to all automotive car products is the old line: "You results may vary".

    You can't really hold our fellow posters here to a level of results that can take place in a controlled laboratory. He's giving his opinion based on his results (which may vary from application to application) and you're giving yours based on your experience. So nobody's right or wrong, and flexibility makes for good discussions.

    My results with just about any product I've ever tried suggests about 60 days on a coat of wax before it starts to look a little ragged. Of course, I have a red car that stays outside, so "your results may vary"...;)

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • Over the last month and a half, I've put three layers of Zaino on my brand new car, a red flame metallic Solara.
    Just brought it in for the first scheduled maintenance today (1,000 miles)... parked it in the dealer's back lot and waited for the service guy in the parking lot (they have some guy out there whose job it is to take your keys and tag the cars, before you check in at the service desk).
    He pulled a customer's van up along my new car, opened the door, and the van's door slammed against my car's beautiful finish!
    I'm not normally given to expletives, but some colorful ones immediately flew out of my mouth. He said "sorry, it slipped." He promised to compound the mark (which was quite visible--not a ding, per se, but a three-inch vertical scrape).
    When I picked up the car, the door panel was covered with polishing compound; they hadn't washed it off. When I got the car home, I washed and soaped and washed.... the scrape is STILL THERE. I'm going to make them repaint it tomorrow. #&#($&#%#
    This really kills the joy of a new car; it still has the new car smell.
  • shomanshoman Posts: 97
    #9,
    Ivory, used as I use it (tiny squirt in a bucket of water) will NOT strip all of your wax/polish off in just one wash.
    Any type of washing action will remove some product, even rinsing with clear water and drying as gently as possible with soft towels.
    I prefer to use a product that can cut through the crud of daily driving. I have used lots of different "car wash" products, and none of them to date ( haven't tried the Zaino wash yet) including Meguires best wash product will clean or hold suds (suds are important for helping carry dirt off a car and provide some lubrication to prevent scratches) as well as a tiny squirt of Ivory. I don't recommend any other product, and I am talking Liquid Ivory, not the powder.
    One of my personal tests for a wash product is how much does the wash mit/cloth drag on the surface? Meguiars fails this test completely. It's like trying to wash in pancake syrup, the mitt sticks so bad. Suds go away in about two dips of the mitt.
    My wax protection lasts as long washing with Ivory as with any other product I have tried. This is just one of those myths (Ivory strips wax) that persist. If wax/polish was that easily removed, it would wash off in days of the acid rain filled with lots worse stuff than a bucket of clean water with a little soap in it. Of course some wax products are not as durable as others. So, your wax mileage might vary.

    Don
  • shomanshoman Posts: 97
    Got a chance today to put the Z-2 on at least part of my SHO Taurus. The trunk lid.

    After cleaning, I used Z-1, Z-5 and finally Z-2 (with Z-6 between the Z-5/Z-2 and after the Z-2.)

    I waited about 20 minutes between coats, not having days to leave my car tied up inside the garage, and letting the product dry for 1/2 to a full day is not required, the instructions say let set for 10 minutes. The temp was 70 degrees in my garage for this session.

    I must say the Z-2 seemed to wipe off easier than the Z-3 that I let sit overnight everytime, not sure if that's a function of the different product or the time left on the car. I have noticed that leaving Collonite or Gold Class on for more than 10 minutes or so, does make it harder to get that product off, so maybe it's the same with Zaino?
    After five steps with Zaino (Z-1, Z-5, Z-6, Z-2, Z-6) and one step with Collonite I can't tell a real difference in the amount of minor scratches in this clearcoat (remember this car had been through full service car wash hell before I bought it. I have spent the last several years using Phaze Glaze Or 3M Pink Fill-N-Glaze to take out most of them, the paint looks pretty good, but still a bit tired) I had hopes that the Zaino would do as advertised and make more of the minor problems go away. The Z-5 is supposed to do this.
    I look forward to seeing the results in better light though (it was snowing and just opening the garage door had the trunk covered with it!) and seeing how each side holds up to the weather. BTW, my garage has pretty good lighting and skylight can get in through roof panels, so I wasn't in the dark.
    REVELATION! My famous (infamous) bottle test actually came out on the Zaino side this time on the SHO! Also I tried a clean soft cotton rag and could feel a real difference in drag (very slight, but real) in favor (less drag) of Zaino.

    The Grand Prix (with three coats of Z-3) has been sitting uncovered for more thann three days now, and no noticable accumulation of dust is noticed on either side (half the hood is Collonite, half Zaino Z-3). A friend gave his blind test opinion today (he is a painter and old Porsche expert). Without saying what products I used, I asked him to point to the side of the hood he liked best. He picked the Collonite side after careful examination and without reservation. We will be trying Zaino on his new 911 Turbo when time/weather allows.

    Don
  • mrimri Posts: 7
    My understanding from reading all the posts on this topic is that Dawn is specifically recommended for when you WANT to remove all the wax (prior to polishing/waxing again). Dawn and only Dawn. So my impression was that other mild soaps (like Ivory) would NOT remove wax nearly as much, and thus would be suitable for regular washing (as Don states).

    Winter washing: Here in Akron, Ohio we have a few "touchless" car washes that use no brushes or cloths to wash the car. They get the cars suprisingly clean, and then they hand dry with cotton towels. That's the best winter washing solution I've found.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,167
    #14
    Ivory and Dawn are the two best detergents for cutting grease and such .... and that was taken from a Consumer Reports of some time back. I have both and they perform very closely the same job. So how one magically doesnt strip wax and the other does strip wax on car paint is simply magical thinking. If you want to use it as your car wash so be it. I use it to prep for Zaino and can attest to how it leaves the paint. But it also pulls off Meguairs #26 and Gold Class very well. As you say results do vary.
  • shomanshoman Posts: 97
    ruking,

    Also, HOW you use it makes a difference. When I TRY to cut off wax (as in my Zaino test) I use a high concentration. When I am just trying to clean and make suds, I put a tiny bit in a bucket. Big difference in the results. A little works great to "clean" a car and won't strip off all your wax in one gentle wash, and more than any other "washing" operation. 30 years experience has proved that for me.

    Don
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,167
    #16
    Have to admit; you do have a flair for the obvious.
  • Rob360Rob360 Posts: 33
    Don (aka Shoman)

    It would appear that you are taking the easy way out, and have simply decided not to respond to my posts about your inconsistent statements.

    Guess you finally painted yourself into a corner to the point that even you couldn't argue yourself out of! I was kind of expecting a response saying "For my purposes, one month equals three months"!

    Your comments regarding the accumulation of dust are highly questionable to me. I have used tons of carnauba based products, and they always seem to attract dust like a magnet. Zaino seems to repel it. Perhaps another "comparison" would be in order by someone who does not sell either Zaino or Collonite, (which I get the distinct impression that you do)? I have a few extra bucks....why don't you tell me where to get some Collonite? I will do my comparison with Zaino, and when finished, I can mail the left over Collonite to another person who posts here, for their own comparison. If there is still some left, that person can pass the Collonite on to another, until we have a few different people doing the comparison and posting their results here.

    What do people think?

    Rob

    Rob
  • guitarzanguitarzan Posts: 638
    Rob, I agree with your analysis of carnauba, because I have experienced it. However, taking long posts to lambaste someone who is here for information and enjoyment is not right.

    I will be looking forward to your test. Me, I don't have the patience to compare 2 wax products, but may side with your winner :)
  • gusgus Posts: 254
    Rob,

    A comparison sounds like a fine idea. Nothing is preventing you from making a case for your favorite wax or polish. Do your thing, take careful notes and post your results.

    As for me, I prefer a nice, fuzzy oxidized finish. No amount of talking by anyone is going to convince me that waxing/polishing my car is worth the time or money.

    (Guitarzan, thanks for your post, you slipped in before me!!)
  • shomanshoman Posts: 97
    Rob,

    I replied to your post. You either accept it or not. Continuing to foul up the topic with illogical and useless posts of a hateful nature is counter productive.
    Paint myself into a corner? Hide? Where have I failed to respond (responding to the same repeated question is like continuing to hide from someone shouting "the sky is falling".) and where am I hiding? I am here, and the tactics of a schoolyard bully won't change that.
    I for one, am trying to move on and do something useful on the list. Care to join the rest of us?
    Good luck with your test.

    Don
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,167
    #18
    Don't waste your time and money!! First of all the test was done. It would be very hard for a vendor of say a competitor of Zaino to admit that the competition was better so he did the next best thing and that was to say that it was good; but, maybe... not much better than say Collonite. If he is not a vendor, he is saying it is hard for him to say that something else may be better, let alone that he might be wrong. (The clue is the reference to the 30 yrs of experience.) If he is saying that Zaino has to be many times better and you believe him; then if Zaino is arithmetically better you miss out. Then if Collonite comes close... I think you get my drift.

    I mean if he thinks that only one of two chemically similar detergents strips wax and the other doesn't and then when pointed out the similarness; sez, gee stupid its the concentration...what do you reasonably expect him to say??
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,167
    #22
    You already use the real deal. In effect, you have already heard the results of the longtime test of Collonite.
  • anne4anne4 Posts: 35
    At last: an honest post from someone who may be more typical of the majority of us car owners who rarely wax/polish their cars! You're in good company; a walk thru any parking lot will confirm that most cars don't have decent wax jobs.

    I bought a new Honda Accord 5.5 years ago and swore that I would wax it often. Well, I didn't. Was just as slovenly and lazy as most car owners. My car repaid me by getting etched-in water spots that I just had to remove with a polishing compound before Zainoing. All this effort to make it shiny for resale purposes.

    Just bought a new Honda Odyssey. With this vehicle I will reform. ("Hi, my name is Ann, and I am a recovering non-waxer/polisher.") Have already put 2 coats of Zaino on the van. This is not an easy feat because the van is so big, and i have to use a step ladder to reach the roof. I swear I will re-Zaino every 3 months until, uh, I don't any more.
  • Rob --

    If you're really interested in a comparison, here's a web site that offers Collonite.

    Knock yourself out. Hey, at $24.95 a can, better you than me. ;-)
  • Let's try this again (I got so excited about the price I forgot the address):

    http://www.autofanatics.com/

    Have fun!
  • Rob360Rob360 Posts: 33
    Shoman writes"

    ""Rob,
    I replied to your post. You either accept it or
    not. Continuing to foul up the topic with
    illogical and useless posts of a hateful nature is counter productive.""

    Don- Please tell me where you responded to my post #7. Did I miss it? Yes, you responded to my original post about your inconsistent statements regarding how long Collinite lasts by explaining that "for your purposes, a few weeks can mean up to 12 weeks". But in post #7, I raise a different issue. You state that you have never seen a wax last more than a month. My question to you is, how does this jive with your statement on this board that Collinite lasts "three months or more even in severe midwestern use"?

    THAT IS THE QUESTION! Care to respond?


    Shoman continues:

    ""Paint myself into a corner? Hide? Where have I failed to respond (responding to the same repeated question is like continuing to hide from someone shouting "the sky is falling".)""

    Yes, Don, I think you painted yourself into a corner by saying that for your purposes a few weeks equals up to 12 weeks, even though on your own website you say you have never seen a wax last more than a month.

    As far as hiding, I do not believe I ever used that term. That is your word. What I said was that you failed to respond to my questions. As indicated, they are NOT the same questions! Also, I really don't believe that the issues I have raised regarding your comments here can be equated
    to yelling the sky is falling. I truly believe that I have raised some important, valid questions regarding your credibility and advice. No more, no less.

    Shoman continues:

    ""and where am I hiding? I am here, and the tactics of a schoolyard bully won't change that.""

    Again, I did not use the term that you were "hiding". One thing I have noticed about many of your responses to posts is that you tend to really twist things around to use to your advantage. Why?

    If you feel my tactics are that of a "schoolyard bully" I apologize, but at the same time I don't think I have been particularly harsh, given the circumstances. After all, I have never accused you of having a burr up your behind or telling you to get a life, or other personal insults which you have used towards me.

    Shoman continues:

    ""I for one, am trying to move on and do something useful on the list. Care to join the rest of us?""

    Yeah, real useful tips like telling everyone they should use Ivory dish soap to wash there cars. That advice alone is enough to wipe out any credibility you have with me.

    As far as me doing something "useful" on the list, let me tell you what it is: I am fearful that people who come to this board for advice on how to care for their cars will see some of your comments and will run out and do exactly what you say because you "have 30 years of experience". I am questioning your advice publicly because I don't want others to be fooled, and go out and buy a bottle of Ivory to wash their cars with, or to think that if they use Collinite it will last "three months or more in severe midwestern use", when that is NOT the truth, even according to your own words on your own webpage. Is this useful to the list? I think so.

    If you do not want your advice questioned and/or criticized, you have come to the wrong place.

    I realize I may be coming on strong to others here, but I just really think that it is important to get the point across. Thus the heading for this topic...to try ONE more time, since Shoman apparently doesn't get the point.

    I am more than willing to move on, but I think people here deserve an answer to the above issues.

    Rob

    P.S. Good points ruking
    Good luck with your test.
  • Rob360Rob360 Posts: 33
    Wc3George thanks for the link.

    Any other volunteers want to take part in this test?

    Rob
  • Has anyone ever seen a time when these vitriolic attacks have ever produced anything beneficial to anyone?

    I'll add this non-offensive item. Whatever your position on Zaino products, I've found Sal to be a genuinely nice, helpful person. That's gained my business more than anything else.
  • I'm almost out of Zaino anyways... =)

    What's the test anyway? I think I missed that post. It's been a long time, and they *hmpf* expect me to WORK at work. *double hmpf* Is it just trying this Collinite stuff? Besides, I was skeptical about Zaino to begin with, and it turned out to work as advertised.

    BTW, I just ordered it while typing this message. I'm a multitasking maniac! =) Chalk up another few cents toward that C5 Vet! Thank you GM Card! =)

    I guess before I start the test give you my opinions of Zaino.

    I've been using Zaino (Z-1, Z-2, Z-5) for a while now, somewhere between 6-8 months, I'm not sure (I'm too lazy to look back in the original forum to see where I posted), and despite my initial disappointment that Z-2 was pink (Ick! Ick! Blah!), it is by far the best wax that I have ever used. I have to agree with Poca' that it seems a little oily (The lil' sister puts a lot of smudge marks on my truck), but the shine is unbeatable. I've come across an odd problem that the touch-up paint that I'm using doesn't stick to the truck anymore. Is this Zaino's fault? It definitely reduces/hides some scratches. I know where they are and I still don't notice them. I'm sure I could probably see them if I looked closely enough.

    Z-7 is great. I've never seen such a concentrated soap! It works too.

    Z-12 was a little disappointing. It rained today, and I'm used to the reaction of Rain-X. I'm going to switch back to Rain-X. I noticed it looked and smelled too much like toothpaste, maybe I'll try it, the abrasives could whiten my teeth... =)

    Z-14 is O.K. It's hard to tell after only 6-8 months. For something like this, I guess you'd have to wait 6-8 years to see the results.

    I just realized something. I ordered the "Collinite Marque d'Elegance Wax", is this the wax you guys were talking about? (I assumed because of the price) If so, what's "Collinite 476 Wax"?

    Anywho, any advice for removing Zaino from my truck? The Dawn didn't do it last time (Maybe I didn't use enough), and I'm all out of clay, I dropped it. =(

    -- Dale
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This discussion has been closed.