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Honda CR-V Rear Differential Problem?

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Comments

  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    You apparently believe that Honda's staff isn't smart enough or educated enough to publish an owner's manual that reflects the nature of the vehicle, including one with a Honda RT4WD differential.
    If it happens that they've produced a differential that needs its oil changed and its clutch plates burnished every 7,000 miles or so, they screwed up. (And I expect they know it.) They seem to believe the engine needs oil changes every 10,000 miles. And of course a differential would be expected to go much longer between changes, even one named R2-D2 or whatever.


    Two words: Marketing and Accountants.

    When you have engineers design a very good product and then hand it off to Marketing and Accountants, they are bound to mess it up.

    I have Owner's manuals for the 83 Magna and 88 Prelude, and Honda sent sticky pages to paste over the ones in the book. But, with the addition of Lawyers to the corporate staff, they won't do it, because it would be equivalent to admission of guilt.

    So, now it is 3 words; Marketing, Accountants, and Lawyers.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,917
    The times I've seen sticky pages in owner's manuals, it was part of a TSB to correct errors or omissions. Quick example for an '04 CR-V (first item).

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • judylinkjudylink Posts: 33
    Often times there are metal shavings found in the oil. Is the oil causing the diff to break down or is the diff contaminating the oil? That screws up your nifty equation.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    Often times there are metal shavings found in the oil. Is the oil causing the diff to break down or is the diff contaminating the oil? That screws up your nifty equation.

    Diff breaksdown the oil with use. Anyone living where they activate AWD should be changing fluid about once a year.

    Metal shavings would indicate that someone waited too long to change fluid, and ignored the early warning signs.
  • tedtcbtedtcb Posts: 39
    Let’s see, I have 64K on my 06 and last month I had my Diff clutch burnished and “Dual II Pumped” for the third time. The first time by Honda for free and the two other times by my trusty mechanic who follows the TSB to the letter.
    I suppose if my CR-V was my first Honda I might be miffed about this rear diff issue, but since it’s my 15th or so since 1977, I’m as big a fan as ever…And will remain so.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    Let’s see, I have 64K on my 06 and last month I had my Diff clutch burnished and “Dual II Pumped” for the third time. The first time by Honda for free and the two other times by my trusty mechanic who follows the TSB to the letter.
    I suppose if my CR-V was my first Honda I might be miffed about this rear diff issue, but since it’s my 15th or so since 1977, I’m as big a fan as ever…And will remain so.


    Sounds about right, change the fluid once a year and the car is happy.
  • tedtcbtedtcb Posts: 39
    Just changed front breaks/rotors@ 64K
    Drove from the Catskills to Burlington Vt last Sat got close to 29 mph on the way up(Just me and my wife) and with one extra person on the way back (80mph) for 235 Mi about 24 MPH
    The 29 was the best I ever got.
  • jpettibonejpettibone Posts: 51
    So, if you add the rear differential to the A/C problem, plus the transmission sensors that people have had problems with, is this still a reilable car? Or, at the very least, has it been below Honda's high level of quality?

    Honestly, next to a Neon that I was a fool to buy, the cr-v has been the least reliable car I've owned.

    Also, nice to see blueiedgod over here trumpeting reliability in the face of evidence again. He really gets around these message boards.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    Also, nice to see blueiedgod over here trumpeting reliability in the face of evidence again. He really gets around these message boards.

    I know, it is just too much to ask people to maintain their vehicles as they are supposed to. How dare a manufacturer require people change their fluids and oils on schedule.

    I agree, once you buy a vehicle, it should run a million miles without the owner spending a penny or taking it into the shop, and preferrably all done on the same tank of fuel....

    alas, the reality bites....
  • vincel1vincel1 Posts: 2
    Hi I'm new to the forums, I usually don't join but just browse the useful info. But I'm considering a 2009 CRV AWD auto. Has there been any differential problems with the later model CRVs? The service bulletin addresses the 02 - 07 model years.
    Thanks, vincel
  • mickdmickd Posts: 9
    I have an 07 CRV with 62K miles ( 1/2 are hwy). I had the diff. fluid changed at no cost at 32K because it was making noise. I have not had to do it again. As far as mileage. I often get 30mpg on trips going over mountains on the east coast. I got 35mpg drive across the flat midwest on HWY 90 last year (60mph) and got 40 mpg (65-70mph) one day on the way back east across the flats with a stiff tailwind. I was amazed. I put on new tires with an aggressive tread last fall and the mileage dropped by 3 mpg overall. Bummer, but the tires are good in snow and rain. Hope I get as good an mpg this summer when I drive west again.
  • tedtcbtedtcb Posts: 39
    As I said before jpettibone, were this my first Honda I would probably be "Miffed" at the unusual number of irregularities that have plagued this model…Personally, I’ve had no problems other than the rear Diff and a fuel tank sensor.
    The fact is the CR-V is still the top selling Crossover SUV and I continue to see Vs of all generations on the road.
    If anything needs to be done by Honda it would be to offer all of us (Consumers and Retailers) “Transparency” when it comes to problems that are universal to the model.
  • tedtcbtedtcb Posts: 39
    Sorry I missed your post Mick
    Your reported MPG is outrageously phenomenal...with what octane?
    t
  • jpettibonejpettibone Posts: 51
    This was my first Honda, and we were pretty upset at the reliability of this car. I very much agree with your last point- I wish they would at least come clean on the AC compressor issue. When there is a single violation of a rule, people tend to either think of it as an exception that does not disprove the rule, or they defend the rule to the point of excluding data to the contrary. I don't see how anyone could see the last model CR-V as anything but sub-par reliability wise for Honda standards, although maybe not by GM standards. Just look at consumer reports for the '02 to '05 year, and you'll see a handful of black and open circles- unheard of for Honda products. If they'd be honest about this, then I'll take it as the exception and continue to buy honda. But to continue to bang the gong of user error, especially when that claim is not falsifiable by the user? I did not expect that from Honda either.
  • jpettibonejpettibone Posts: 51
    Not what I said at all. You are arguing against a stereotype- not me.
  • My 2006 CRV is up to 57K miles, and I thought I should get my complaint in the system before the 60K mark. They first told me that it would be $150, especially because they would have to change the fluid 3 times, and I had sure waited a long time to get this done.

    When I came to pick it up, they didn't give me the bill, they just walked me over to the cashier. When I finally got to see it, I pulled out the TSB (thanks to whoever posted it) and said "This tells me it is under warranty". They answered "This tells me it's not". I said "Why? the car is less than 5 years old, and less than 60,000 miles. This is a drive train problem." Then, he looked at me and said, "You have a point, let me write out a new bill for you." And he did. For zero.

    It looks as though they try a couple of times to get you to swallow their warranty cost, and see if you back down. If you don't (and it sure helps to have a copy of their TSB) they change gears, presumably pretending it was an honest error. Another dealer (the one I had bought the car from) had also told me on the phone this was maintenance, not warranty work.

    I'm happy with the outcome, but still annoyed they try this sleazeball crap.

    Thanks for all the discussion. Without this board, I would never have had enough info to exercise my rights.

    F
  • mickdmickd Posts: 9
    Just regular 87 octane. I got this before I hit the states with higher ethanol in their fuel. My tires needed to be replaced by the time I got back. Tire tread REALLY makes a difference.
  • vincel1vincel1 Posts: 2
    I'm considering a 2009 CRV AWD auto. Has there been any differential problems with the later model CRVs? The service bulletin addresses the 02 - 07 model years.
    Thanks, vincel
  • dtstofdtstof Posts: 61
    I have a 2007 CRV, and have owned 2 Accords over the years. I live in SOCAL and don't need AWD, even though my last car was an Audi Quattro and ran flawless without any yearly differential oil changes or problems. If I needed an AWD vehicle, I would have not chosen the CRV. I am really surprised that Honda has not changed the design. Must be economics...
    Poor excuse.
  • tedtcbtedtcb Posts: 39
    Mickd writes: Just regular 87 octane.
    Do you notice an increase in acceleration/MPG when /or of you use Plus or Premium..I absolutely do, but then again it could all be psychological or just plain psycho :D
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    I have a 2007 CRV, and have owned 2 Accords over the years. I live in SOCAL and don't need AWD, even though my last car was an Audi Quattro and ran flawless without any yearly differential oil changes or problems. If I needed an AWD vehicle, I would have not chosen the CRV. I am really surprised that Honda has not changed the design. Must be economics...

    Sounds like someone has no clue what the difference is between "quattro" and "Real Time 4WD"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quattro_(four_wheel_drive_system)

    http://www.hondanews.com/categories/844/releases/3653

    Ignorance is truly bliss...

    Two completely different system using different approaches and different technologies. Very similar to someone complaining that apples taste like oranges, while in reality one is eating an orange, but thinks it is an apple. :surprise:
  • dtstofdtstof Posts: 61
    Fortunately I do know the difference. Thank you for the information. Bottom line here is : "Real Time™ 4WD is also low maintenance. The Maintenance Minder system will indicate that the dual pump fluid should be changed at about 60,000 miles. " From the posts on this board, Honda has failed,
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,929
    This differential "problem" has been blown way out of proportion as is common on these boards.

    The guys in our shop do suggest 30,000 mile rear diff oil changes instead of the 60K in the manuals. Not expensive to do.
  • courtney89courtney89 Posts: 12
    I have 'spoken' out on this site several times about this issue. Pay attention to your car, listen to your car. Without being on this thread, I heard the noise, took it to the dealer and got it fixed. I've had 6 Honda's, two of those being CRV's. At one pointed I traded in a year old mini van for a civic - I missed my Honda. I'm sorry to say I haven't treated them with the utmost care, but have used the adage if it ain't broke, don't fix it. My civic after 10 years and little maintenance - one break job and one muffller, sold for in 2 days for an amazingly high resale value. That's when I bought my first CRV. I agree this has been blown out of proportion, Judylink will respond to this no doubt, but I have decided I am finished listening to this and won't be sent any more notations from this thread - Judy, I'm glad you weren't hurt in your wreck, hope your latest car is doing well and that the maintenance doesn't need anything other than a bell or whistle that goes off when your car needs something.
  • tedtcbtedtcb Posts: 39
    Not to beat a dead horse and to stay out of typical BBS flame zones, the rear diff problem wouldn't be a problem if Honda had addressed the issue from the get go.
    In reality, it isn't the Dual Pump fluid or the rear diff design, they are contributing factors obviously, the real problem (as always) is the misinformation, disinformation and general angst of “Not knowing”…all products of Honda Corporate policy.
    Yes, Judy had a catastrophic failure, but that’s way the exception.
    Would I buy another CRV….No, I don’t like the seats, I find it unconscionable that Honda did not include intermittent (variable) wipers on the Leather SE O6 version as well as other nitpicks but none of the reasons are mechanical in nature.
  • yarmieyarmie Posts: 3
    My '05 Honda CRV manual "suggests" a 90,000 rear diff. oil change, and it cost me $80.00 and that was for one oil change not two that is recommended, why so expensive? I can get my engine oil changed for $17.99. And, why couldn't Honda even have the curtesy to inform us that there is a problem. Maybe you are, but I'm not used to having my oil changed front and back. I feel deceived by Honda, and my local dealership, Piazza Honda in Reading PA, told me it was a misprint in the manual because they were afraid I was going to ask for it free.
    Maybe this is all overblown, but on principal, I'm angry about it. I don't like being deceived, lied to and treated like I'm stupid!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,929
    How do you get an oil change for 17.99?

    Sopme people go the 90,000 miles without changing the rear diff oil and have no problems. I listen to the guys in our shop and I change mine every 30K and have had no problems like the majority of people.

    Big difference between changing engine oil and diff fluid!
  • mickdmickd Posts: 9
    The only time I've used a midgrade gas was in Minnesota. Their midgrade has a higher Ethanol content and was cheaper than the regular gas but I didn't see any difference in MPG or acceleration. Just go back from a 300 mile trip from PA to Md over the mountains and the best MPG I could get was 28.5. Still lots of tread on those new tires!
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    My '05 Honda CRV manual "suggests" a 90,000 rear diff. oil change, and it cost me $80.00 and that was for one oil change not two that is recommended, why so expensive? I can get my engine oil changed for $17.99. And, why couldn't Honda even have the curtesy to inform us that there is a problem. Maybe you are, but I'm not used to having my oil changed front and back. I feel deceived by Honda, and my local dealership, Piazza Honda in Reading PA, told me it was a misprint in the manual because they were afraid I was going to ask for it free.
    Maybe this is all overblown, but on principal, I'm angry about it. I don't like being deceived, lied to and treated like I'm stupid!


    Honda corporate does not really have too much control what goes on at the dealership level, unless customer brings it to their attention. The TSB clearaly states that differential fluid changes prior to the scheduled ones are covered by the warranty, and are eligible for out of warranty consideration.

    Problem is greedy dealers. Dealers are individually owned and operated. And I would not be surpized that some are billing Honda for fluid changes as well as the customer.

    As to the $17.99 oil changes... It costs me about $5 to do an oil change with Group III synthetic oils (Mobil1, Pennzoil Platinum, Quaker Horsepower, Valvoline, Castrol Syntec), and Honda flter.

    While the 2 bottles of differential fluid and 2 crush washers are about $9. I usually buy 4 bottles for 4 changes.

    The best is to do it once a year, along with tranny fluid change, and brake cleaning. It takes me a good chunk of saturday morning to do oil and filter, air filter, cabin filters, differential, tranny, rotate tires, and clean and lubricate brakes moving parts, but then it is done for the year.

    05 should have had its brake and power steering fluids changed last year, as well.
  • njlou1960njlou1960 Posts: 2
    Well, add another to the list. I encountered the same "grinding" noise, a friend said it could be the differential. I did my net search, found this forum as well as others before taking in my CRV to the dealership. When I took it into the dealership, they told me they would look at it and let me know. They called me 2 hours later and told me the differential fluid needed to be changed (32k), would do it for free. That is when I told them I was aware of TSB07-21 and and TSB07-24. During my conversation, the :"shift" was always towards consumer blame on behalf of the dealership and claimed that the manual does state changes every 15-20K(not). They agreed to do the fluid change and burnishing free of charge this time, but told me there would be a charge in the future, as if they expect it to happen again. My main concern is what happens if the differential locks up? I have the Honda Care extended warranty, but it states that "mechanical breakdowns due to contaminated fluids are not covered". The way Tsb07-24 is worded is "noise from contaminated fluid" appears to indicate a loophole for convering differential replacement resulting from their problem. Should I contact Honda Corporate? Concerned my $$$ was wasted on the extended warranty for defective craftsmanship................
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