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Honda CR-V Rear Differential Problem?

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Comments

  • I continue to think that Honda's vehicles are great, but that their dealerships and US headquarters are unethical. This is starting to look like a good candidate for a class action lawsuit. Their technical bulletin is very clear about the fact that this is a warranty repair. Period.
  • I recently purchased my 2006 crv se (45,000 miles) which I had leased new back in 2006. Had front and rear brakes done at firestone and was concerned about the noise in the rear of my car. The mechanic there said that 2006 honda's were known for this sound which he thought could be fixed with replacing the differential fluid. I went to honda yesterday, paid $70 to have the differential fluid replaced and will post tomorrow if it worked!
  • The mechanic was correct. Go back in this thread and look for the TSB concerning the rear diff.....Even though you waited a long time to replace the rear diff fluid (never mind that the manual says change every 90k or some absurd mileage figure) (you should replace it every 30k with Honda Dual Pump Fluid II) Your Honda dealer should refund the 70 bucks.

    Edited to include: http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/A07-024.PDF
    Here's the most recent Service Bulletin

    t
  • tuldavtuldav Posts: 1
    Found these great postings explaining the problem for the unexpected and sudden noise from the differential. 2006 CRV with less than 40k; dealer confirmed the problem, wants $160 to fix.

    And this isn't covered under warranty?
  • Yes, it is. Under the drive train warranty, not the basic one (they usually try to tell you otherwise). Show them the service bulletin. If they still lie (and many do) consider walking out, or paying and taking legal action. They need to get really slammed right between the eyes when they lie to your face about warranty coverage; it's just such a pain for us to get into such a conflict for something we're entitled to. And they know that, that's why they try it.

    Honda makes great cars. I'm on my 10th one, been buying them for 30 years. But the dealers are just as sleazy as any used car dealer of any brand in the country. Such a shame.

    Francis
  • I would not pay $160....over priced. The dealership I bought my CRV from did the service for me free of charge for the first time. Honda knows it is an issue that they have not stated clearly in their manuals. The next time I have to have the service, I will have to pay $65.
  • cdamechcdamech Posts: 31
    Talk to the service manager or the owner of the Dealer and they normally comply. If they push back take to HONDA Corporate who has a customer service obudsman to deal with this issue. HONDA has a strong brand and they will not sacrifice their BRAND due to Sleazy Dealers.
  • My Honda CRV 2006 was making that grinding noise attributed to the rear differential shortly after purchase. I didn't initially undestand what was causing the noise. I could not get the Honda dealer to acknowledge the noise and do the service until I was at 34,000 miles. This cost $70 in 2007.

    Now at 60,000 I need it again. My present mechanic says that I need to have the differential flushed 3 times at a cost of $133 per flush. This would be a total of $400!! Have you ever heard of this? I thought he was trustworthy, but now have serious doubts. Please let me know what you think.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    My Honda CRV 2006 was making that grinding noise attributed to the rear differential shortly after purchase. I didn't initially undestand what was causing the noise. I could not get the Honda dealer to acknowledge the noise and do the service until I was at 34,000 miles. This cost $70 in 2007.

    Now at 60,000 I need it again. My present mechanic says that I need to have the differential flushed 3 times at a cost of $133 per flush. This would be a total of $400!! Have you ever heard of this? I thought he was trustworthy, but now have serious doubts. Please let me know what you think.


    There is nothing wrong with the differential. It is part of the regular maintenance to replace fluids. Rear diffeerntial fluid needs to be replaced every 30,000 miles, or figure every 3rd oil change at 10,000 mile intervals.

    If the differential is making noise, it needs to be replaced 3 times with short drives in between to get 90% of the fluid out. It should not cost more than $20 in parts. It takes 1.1 qts (1 liter) and Honda sells the fluid for approximately $6/quart. You will need to buy 4 quarts, and will have some left for the next service.

    At $133 per flush you may as well go to the dealer, as they will charge about $70 for all 3 flushes.

    DO NOT let your mechanic put anything but HONDA DPFor DPF II in there, or you will be looking at $3000 rear differential.

    Same applies to the automatic transmission, the fluid should be changed around 30,000 miles, and if shifts are hard or notchy, the fluid should be replaced 3 times with short drives in between.

    Under no circumstances should a Honda be connected to a FLUID FLUSH machine. Might as well just burn it then.

    Good luck.
  • Thank you so much for your response. I really, really appreciate it!!
  • We own a 2006 CRV with 63,000 miles on it. We will have owned it for four years in November. We are the original owners and I have serious doubts of ever purchasing a Honda automobile ever again. As many, I have read, are experiencing, I began to notice a sort of bumping and slight tremor while turning a sharper left or right. I took the car to our local mechanic.
    He informed me that it was a rear differential issue to which I asked what is a rear differential. He walked me through it all and told me to get into Honda because it was also leaking, needed to be addressed soon and that this may be under warranty. He further stated that this did not just happen overnight either, that the seal deterioration was going on for some time.
    I made the appointment for the following morning. Our local dealership looked at it and told me yes, it was the rear differential and it was leaking. (Which they stated they were surprised with because "they never see this happen"). They further stated that to replace the two axle seals and change out the differential fluid would cost $578. I asked them about warranty coverage and after some poking and prodding they said they would call corporate but that I was out of warranty and the fluid is a maintenance issue. I told them I had never even heard of rear differential prior to the day before and always refer to my Honda Service History booklet when scheduling mileage or year maintenance, and if I was supposed to get the fluid changed out I certainly would have.
    The local dealer tried their best to pin this all on the fact that I do not use them for my regular maintenance which is complete garbage. Last I checked this is America and I can take my car where ever I get good service. For me, that is my local Goodyear around the corner from our house. As it turns out they didn't have the parts anyway and I would have to come back. Meanwhile I was to expect a call when they heard back from Honda Corporate.
    They did call later that day and informed me that out of the kindness of their heart, Corporate was only going to charge me for half the price of the seals which would total $71. They also stated that because the fluid is a maintenance issue I would be charged the full $158 for that. I told them to get the parts and scheduled an appointment for today. I also told them that we had done some research and found Honda Corp. is aware of the issue (bulletins) and that many owners are having the same problem. Further - I told her my Honda Service History booklet does not recommend replacing the rear differential fluid until 90,000 miles or five years. Boy did she try and argue that - with no leg to stand on. Her favorite excuse was that "in your manual it states that in extreme driving conditions (Florida) the rear differential fluid should be checked every 20,000 miles". Well guess what - no where in my manual does it read that. It was something she found and printed from online.
    So long story short we got taken. Taken by our local dealership, taken by Honda Corporate. I'm a sole-proprietor and I lost three days worth of work just to get taken. Total bill $253.45. Total hassle - more than Honda has. Won't be buying a Honda again.
  • saabgirlsaabgirl Posts: 184
    My '05 CR-V with 28K (3 car, 2 driver family) started to make whining/grindy noises on sharp turns, and I thought it was the PS belt. Checking this forum shifted my attn to the rear differential. Took it to the dealer, and they changed the rear diff fluid plus oil, lube and filter for $106. Quieted 'er right down.

    Since the rear differential fluid needs changing regularly I'd say this should be highlighted in the owner's manual. I've only had the car serviced at dealers, and no one mentioned this. The owner has to know where to look and what to look for to find it in the manual. Granted, the car was just coming up on 30K and hadn't begun making any noise until a week previous to bringing it in. And at first the noise is hardly noticeable.

    Some owners have asked about tires. My Goodrich OEs were ok at first but at 20K were so noisy my missus avoided the car and didn't want to hear that they had a year's worth of tread left. (According to Tire Rack this is par for the course with this tire.) So I switched to Goodyear ComforTreads, and it's like a different car -- much quiter on the highway, much less bangy on bumps.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    Wow, that is a long story, but...

    1) Your car is still in warranty at 63,000 miles, since 2006 came with 5 year/60,000 mile powertrain warranty. Differential is part of the power train. Because Honda has settled a law suit and agreed to 5% odomter error, 63,000 is exactly within the warranty limitation.

    2) The OWNER's MANUAL lists 2 schedules, Normal and Severe. lPage 185lists the definition of Severe Service, and FL would be under it for the heat.

    Page 188 indeed tells you to check all the fluid levels and condition at 20,000 miles, or every year. And absolutely recommends replacing the fluid at 60,000 mile intervals.

    Just because you did not know, or Goodyear did not know the vehicle had a rear differential (how do you suppose the power gets to the rear wheels from the engine upfront???) does not mean it should not be serviced. Besides, I HIGHLY doubt that Goodyear would go out of their way and buy Dual Pump Fluid from Honda to put in there. Maybe it is a godsend that they are clueless and did not know about the rear differential. Any other fluid would have destroyed it, and you would have been stuck with a $3000 repair tab.

    While, I agree that this is America, and you are free to take your vehicle anywhere to be serviced. You should also mind that you are driving a Honda, not a GM/Ford/Toyota....product.

    Honda uses unique components and designs that a chain like Goodyear would have knowledge about. Best is to go to an independant garage specializing in Hondas. Or service it your self. The TSB's are avaialbe for anyone, who wants to, to view.
  • saabgirlsaabgirl Posts: 184
    Meant to ask a Q in my previous post --

    Does anyone use BG oil additive?

    The dealer I bought the car from recommends this additive, saying since the car isn't used every day, it could be helpful at start up, especially in the winter.

    The dealer closest to me said Honda doesn't recommend any additive, winter or not, used daily or not.

    I'm impressed with someone who stands to make a buck, but will tell the customer a product might not hurt but isn't needed. Any other .02?
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    Meant to ask a Q in my previous post --

    Does anyone use BG oil additive?

    The dealer I bought the car from recommends this additive, saying since the car isn't used every day, it could be helpful at start up, especially in the winter.

    The dealer closest to me said Honda doesn't recommend any additive, winter or not, used daily or not.

    I'm impressed with someone who stands to make a buck, but will tell the customer a product might not hurt but isn't needed. Any other .02?


    The seocnd dealer is right. the OWNERs MANUAL specifically states not to use additives. Bring the OWNER's MANUAL to the first dealer, and make them eat it.
  • I have been through this 3 times with my 2005 CRV. There is a specific service bulletin from Honda addressing this problem. Even after a change with new Honda fluid this problem can develop. The service bulletin provides for a detailed procedure to "burnish the disks in the differential. My Honda dealer is aware of this bulletin and has changed the fluid without charge. Each time the problem was solved for about 12,000 miles. Make sure you go to the dealer for this problem. Mention that you are aware that there is a service bulletin on the problem with a specific procedure.
  • I previously left a post on the TSB for the rear differential problem. Here is a link to the bulletin itself which describes the procedure that must be followed before changing the fluid.

    http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/A07-024.PDF
  • tkay2tkay2 Posts: 46
    What I do now is every time I take my 07 in for service I tell them about the noise I hear when turning. They change the differential fluid free. Wonder if Honda has done anything with this problem on 2010. If you think you should change differential fluid every 20;K get a different make. As far as road noise, I put a set of Michelin latitude tour on the 07 (WOW what a difference) I have a subaru 2009 forester with 35000K have not changed fluid yet. I take my subaru in every 4000 miles or so to take advantage of the 3 year 36000 free scheduled maintenance I negotiated when purchasing the vehicle. For me the choice is the forrester..The only drawback is the price they charge for maintenance.. My free is running out!!!
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    What I do now is every time I take my 07 in for service I tell them about the noise I hear when turning. They change the differential fluid free. Wonder if Honda has done anything with this problem on 2010. If you think you should change differential fluid every 20;K get a different make. As far as road noise, I put a set of Michelin latitude tour on the 07 (WOW what a difference) I have a subaru 2009 forester with 35000K have not changed fluid yet. I take my subaru in every 4000 miles or so to take advantage of the 3 year 36000 free scheduled maintenance I negotiated when purchasing the vehicle. For me the choice is the forrester..The only drawback is the price they charge for maintenance.. My free is running out!!!

    I believe the scheduled differential fluid interval for 2007 an dup CR-V is 15,000 miles. Even if the poster has to change it every 20,000 miles, he/she is getting more out of the fluid than intended.

    Honda's Real-Time AWD is different from Subaru's, and comparing the fluid intervals on the Subaru (which is just a differential, not an AWD integral part) with CR-V, is like complaining that apples taste like oranges, when they are indeed oranges.

    It would be more benefitial to the owners of the respective vehicles to understand what each system is, how it works, and what the differences are before making categorical statements and comparing the two. Just my 2 cents.
  • tkay2tkay2 Posts: 46
    Spanky, Wonder if Honda has changed diff. fluid on the 09 or 10 CRV.. or do they have to wait for a model makeover???
  • tkay2tkay2 Posts: 46
    So what you are saying is Honda 4WD and Subaru all wheel drive is different. To me they are both 4 wheel drive and do well in snow etc. have never heard of another vehicle that requires 15K intervals to change Diff.Fluid. I am thinking of a a 09 or 10 CRV. and wondering if they have changed or in my view fixed this problem,And also they might try to alleviate some of the road noise!
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    So what you are saying is Honda 4WD and Subaru all wheel drive is different. To me they are both 4 wheel drive and do well in snow etc. have never heard of another vehicle that requires 15K intervals to change Diff.Fluid. I am thinking of a a 09 or 10 CRV. and wondering if they have changed or in my view fixed this problem,And also they might try to alleviate some of the road noise!

    Honda's AWD system is integrated in the rear differential, while Subaru's AWD system is in the central differential.

    Honda uses wet clutches and two pumps to create the pressure to activate the rear wheels. When both front and rear wheels are turning at the same speed, the pressure between the pumps is neutral. Once either of the wheels are turning faster, it creates pressure differential between the pumps and activates the clutch pack.

    The benefit is the lighter weight, and lower rolling resitance, which results in higher fuel efficiency.

    The system is proven bullet proof with regular maintenance. It was originally installed on the mid-80's Civic Wagon 4WD vehicles, and has been continually improved, but essentially is a dual pump system.

    While Subaru's system is always on. It is simpler, but takes a hit in the fuel economy department.
  • Hello sabfish,

    thanks for the info on this tsb for the 07 crv. my aunt has a noise coming from the rear diff and when she was at the dealer, they were trying to charge her for the fluid change and inspection fee. Good thing I found this thread and mentioned to the service advisor about the tsb.... well, let's just say that they suddenly remembered that a tsb exists for this noise.

    thanks,
    tony
  • I took my honda to the dealer for an oil change, the mechanic informed me that I needed to have a rear differential replacement, my first question, how much is that going to cost "anywhere from $3600-4000 including labor and all the other add ons I could not believe what I just heard,then the service advisor told me that I should just yes just buy a new car because it would not make any sense to keep putting money into my 99 honda mileage seventy three thousand miles on it.I then asked how can I tell if it is the differential she said that the car does not want to accelerate when I push on the gas and yes I had been noticing that when driving that the car did not want to accelerate.my question does the price seem right? I have no other problems with my crv, I get my oil change when needed all else seems great, I am so fed up with these mechanics who do nothing but try to rip us off has if we don't have other things to do with our hard earned cash but give it to them.Then to top it off the salesman says he can get me into something paying $ 400.00 dollars a mth not buying LEASE vehicle.I got up and walked away.
  • lzclzc Posts: 483
    Yeah, the odds are probably 100% the dealer's price is higher than an independent garage.

    Unfortunately, your car is 10 years old. Still, the rear differential should last longer than 73k miles if properly maintained. I'd make that point strongly, but politely, to the dealer, or Honda directly if they don't cooperate, and ask for a reduced price. Honda has a "good will" program that discounts prices (often 50%) for components that have had a history of problems, such as air conditioners and differentials. Because of the car's age they may not go 50%, but they should do something for you, especially if you've had your serviced regularly by a dealer.

    Also, I'd have the car checked out by an independent garage that specializes in Japanese cars. You need to get another price.
  • It's strange, I took my car to another Honda dealer for something else ( car was lifted) and they did not say anything about my rear differential, me personally I'm not sure that I need that, I take very good care of my car and I do make sure that I get all the required oil changes and others things that are needed to make sure the car is in good running condition. Thank you for your feed back. I will make the point to the dealer and I will take it to a foreign dealer.
  • Have you have the rear differntial serviced regularly? If it's been more than 30,000 miles, it might be worth having the fluid in it changed and the clutches burnished. Hondas 60,000mi recomendation is a little long. It's probably better to use a 30,000 mile interval.
  • I have front wheel drive. Do I have a differential? Do I need to have the fluid changed?
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    I took my honda to the dealer for an oil change, the mechanic informed me that I needed to have a rear differential replacement, my first question, how much is that going to cost "anywhere from $3600-4000 including labor and all the other add ons I could not believe what I just heard,then the service advisor told me that I should just yes just buy a new car because it would not make any sense to keep putting money into my 99 honda mileage seventy three thousand miles on it.I then asked how can I tell if it is the differential she said that the car does not want to accelerate when I push on the gas and yes I had been noticing that when driving that the car did not want to accelerate.my question does the price seem right? I have no other problems with my crv, I get my oil change when needed all else seems great, I am so fed up with these mechanics who do nothing but try to rip us off has if we don't have other things to do with our hard earned cash but give it to them.Then to top it off the salesman says he can get me into something paying $ 400.00 dollars a mth not buying LEASE vehicle.I got up and walked away.

    I say they are lying through their teeth.

    Failed differential does not make your car sluggish, however, a failing transmission (if automatic) may. But, chances are it will be fine too.

    One thing to remember with any car is that just regular oil change is not maintenance.

    You need to change the transmission fluid at least every 30,000 miles with Honda ATF Z-1 for automatic, or Honda MTF for manual.

    Rear differential fluid needs to be changed at 30,000 miles as well, using HONDA DPF I or DPF II ONLY!!!

    Power steeering fluid needs to be changed every 3 years with HONDA PSF ONLY!!!

    Brake fluid needs to be changed every 3 years, you can use generic, but Honda one is not much more.

    Coolant needs to be changed every 5 years if factory fluid, or 3 years if replacement. Use Honda Type 2 coolant ONLY!

    Cabin filter needs to be replaced at least once a year.

    Air filter needs to be replaced every 4 oil changes, or so

    If you take care fo your Honda, she will take care of you. Neglect her, she will be mercyless. There are no substitutes for Honda fluids, no matter what they claim!
  • iangusiangus Posts: 2
    my 2005 cr-v has 126,500 mi. and the rear differential started making noise. the dealer said it would be 4000 dollars for a replacement.can i get one at a salvage yard? will it have the same problem down the road?this one has never been serviced.
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