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Hyundai Genesis Sedan 2009+

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Comments

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    This is the best forum on edmunds, right now. Lots of good posts.

    Well I do guys think it's a good idea to try to buy american, but when Ford, is building cars like they built my Detroit Lions team for the last 5 or 6 decades the consumers get tired. GM, has pushed the brand I love "Cadillac" to prices that people making my middle class wages can't afford them even if they save.

    Ya know what imidazol97, that surprises me you were shopping a Sonata. :surprise: Well the same can be said about me with looking at this Genesis. I'm getting pissed that the big 3 are bringing a lot of their new cars from Australia, or like the new Saturns will be built in Mexico, like the Astra.

    Perhaps maybe you and I should be like everyone else and say screw it and buy what's best for our wallet as cars are getting way to expensive even though they have cut production costs by more than 60% in the last decade to decade and a half with out sourcing. I do try to buy american made clothes, shoes, etc, but cars are going up faster than my raises. The Genesis, will be on my radar when it comes out and so will the EVO-X. The Caddy STS will be out of reach cuz GM, hasn't ran any specials on the V8's as far as leases go. Ford, at least does this time to time to move these expensive cars. My GM, discount will not eat enough lease cost to make one afordable. I can lease a Navigator Limited for the same money $150-$200 a month cheaper as an example than a STS and I will save $7K on a STS with my discount. I checked into it on a 05' when they came out. It was $780 a month with my GM, discount. I assume my 09' CTS-V will run around $60K so that is out of the question probably also and knowing GM, I will have to wait months for them to offer GM employee elgible people a discount like they did when the first CTS-V came out I was looking into. That's when I bought the 1 yr. old 02' Seville STS. ;)

    So just maybe a Genesis, will fit the bill. We will see. I do like iluv's Lancer, thus I will have to check out those EVO's also. :shades:

    Rocky
  • nycdc911nycdc911 Posts: 27
    Hyundai needs a new luxury division called Genesis badly. Current Hyundai dealerships are still upset Hyundai isn't making $8000 cars for their poor customers. They have no clue about how to sell a luxury car and their customers can't afford it. Just the name Hyundai is one of the worst, hard to pronounce, and offputting names for a company in the English language. Hyundai owners are going to have to say "hyundai" a lot in their daily life, many if not most people don't even know how to pronounce it and wouldn't want to if they could. And Equus?? Genesis is an ideal name and isn't a made up cheesy word like Acura, Infiniti, or Lexus.

    Seriously, Kia sounds cool but if I was Hyundai I would consider changing the name of the whole brand just like Datsun became Nissan years ago. And tell whoever's planning on selling Ssangyong cars from Korea to stop smoking crack, one S might be doable but 2?? Hyundai dealers claim they can't even give away Azeras now that Hyundai stopped advertising it. Nobody's going to want to buy a Hyundai costing $35-40,000 with options. I know I wouldn't want it because of the hard to pronounce and unpleasant "Hyundai" name alone.

    Instead of calling it the Hyundai Genesis, it should be the first car in a new luxury Genesis division and be called simply the Genesis M luxury performance sedan. The different engines would be distinguished as the Genesis M 4.6 or Genesis M 3.8. The number denoting engine size wouldn't be officially part of the name much like the Audi A4 3.2 or 1.8 or whatever is still called just the A4. The Genesis name would be centered between the taillights, "M" would be above the left taillight, and 4.6 above the right taillight. A lot of people would consider buying an AWD loaded Genesis M 4.6 since it's basically an LS460 or next generation M45 for less than the price of an ES350 or G35. Reshape the M's Camry-like grill and come up with daring designs in the future, hire some Italians.

    Future Genesis models could include the S for a smallish sports sedan to compete against ES350, G35, BMW 3, etc. An even smaller R sedan might not be necessary but could compete against the IS250, BMW 3, Audi A, etc. A large L sedan could compete against Lexus 600hL, BMW 760iL, Mercedes S class, etc. G coupe and C convertible hardtop and maybe B hardtop roadster could appeal to sports luxury buyers.

    A Genesis X crossover SUV should be sold immediately alongside M as a rebadged and slightly restyled Veracruz with additional luxury features like real wood trim, navigation system, etc. Potentially a real offroading trucklike SUV could be sold as a V class or they could use V as the name for the 2010 Portico large minivan/SUV.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    They need to build up Kia's rep to Toyota, level of reputation and make Hyundai, the luxury brand like Lexus IMHO. I think the 2 brand idea that Honda and Toyota has works best in this global economy. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    So you find it hard to say "Hyundai" :confuse: It comes off my tongue quite easy. :P

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    So what you are really saying is these guys are S.O.L. ;)

    Rocky
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Yeah let's dumb things down because people can't pronounce Hyundai. Perhaps we should pass a law to not use words over 4 letters long too? haaaaa That's the funniest thing I've ever seen.

    -mike

    PS: Pics coming up.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    ROTFLMAO :D

    Paisan, maybe this helps explain why america, is behind the rest of the world in education. Well K-12 anyways. ;)

    I'm looking forward to those pics :)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Mike,

    Thanx for the pic. That's a good one. G35 from the front and the rear pics I've saw say BMW Bangle like Butt ;)

    Rocky
  • nycdc911nycdc911 Posts: 27
    Potentially thinking about changing the Hyundai name wasn't my main point, creating a new luxury division called Genesis is the major issue. If you were a luxury car buyer would you rather own a Hyundai knowing their cheap reputation or a new Genesis luxury sedan?
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I'm a trader on wall street and rub elbows with the folks buying luxury cars. BMW/MB, guess what? They won't buy it period, no matter what name you put under it. Heck Infiniti and Lexus BARELY are accepted at the country clubs these days. I think Hyundai would go a lot further w/o creating a phony "luxury" company and just continue to give people good value for their money, which in this case would be upscale ammenties and looks at a rock bottom price. That's what attracted folks to Hyundai in the first place and what they should continue to be rooted in.

    I'd be first in line to buy one of these suckers. Heck I'd signup for an AWD Sonata if it came out!

    -mike
  • gpkgpk Posts: 38
    I think that this car is going to benefit all consumers. Hyundai is sending a message and in the end its a win win situation for all consumers. I am a Honda fan I have owned 4 and usually get a lot of life out of them. What I see is that Hyundai forces T/H/N and the rest to really pump out the best product that they can. This might force honda to redo the Acura RL and come out with a V-8/10. Everyone see's whats happening to the big 3 so if T/H/N do not want to walk down the american auto industry path they will take notice. This car is BIG for the entire auto industry(except the European's). Like I said this is BIG and VERY GOOD for all of us... :)
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I wonder when honda will figure things out about RWD and V8s, I remember reading where they basically have no desire to put out a V8 or a RWD car and pretty much feel that FWD and V6 is the be-all end all. Although there is the s2000 and NSX which aren't in that area.

    -mike
  • ontopontop Posts: 279
    Yup - change the name. Hyundai has a stigma. And the name looks weird too.

    How about Masters? Or Callaway? Or Grand Slam?
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Rocky, I like this concept. But I don't think it will be anywhere close to Camry in terms of MSRP. As of now, Sonata is not much cheaper than Camry anyway.

    Let's say, Sonata is 5%~10% cheaper than Camry. Let Genesis be 5%~10% cheaper than the V8 RWD Toyota (LS460), subtract another 10% for not using an up-market brand name. That will still be at least $50,000 for the starting MSRP.


    1) It's not meant to compete with the Camry. As noted, the Sonata is.

    2) The BH (codename, no official name has been given yet) will likely start under $30K in the US, with the V8 version estimated at low-to-mid 30s range.

    3) Feature-wise, what you see is what you get. I've been told everything listed in the PR would be available on the production model next year (e.g. Nav, Xenon). Also, Hyundai will likely become to first non-luxury nameplate to offer HD radio.

    4) Good news for the power fans - the V8 will put out a lot more than 300 horses, Hyundai has always estimated conservatively. Upwards of 340 or more is possibly a slightly precise estimate.

    5) Few changes in the front and the rear, otherwise, this is the car coming to the showroom next year.

    6) MSRP and comparably speaking, the Sonata is a good 10%-20% cheaper, depending on trims, packages and options.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    If the Genesis is supposed to start "well under" $30k (V6 version), what happens to Axera? Is this Azera's replacement?

    If the V6 Genesis is in the high $20's, the V8 would be $5-7k more? Around 33-35k?

    I don't have a problem with Hyundai building a luxury marque. If they are meeting/exceeding sales goals for the former XG350/Azera, then go for it.

    Genesis is a better name for a company than a car.

    They will DEFINITELY need another vehicle to start a marque with. I'd build a coupe. ;)

    Personally, I'd get people comfortable with considering Hyundai as a 1st-rate full-line marque, which most people haven't realized yet. I don't see what the rush is? :confuse:

    But now might be the time to pounce! Acura continues to struggle, and Infiniti is working on a very slow upswing. Lincoln is all but dead. Audi isn't setting the world on fire, after countless opportunities.

    I think they're getting ahead of themselves, and should wait until the Fall of 2010, at the earliest.

    And I agree, producing a couple of studly models for the NAIAS, and announcing in the Fall a new brand will emerge is definitely the way to do this, as Lexus did.

    If Lexus writes a book, you should tear out a page or two, no? :blush:

    DrFill
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    I 100 % agree with your take. I, like you care about the product. A badge is for people who are so insecure they need somebody's name tag taped to their [non-permissible content removed] to give them a self confidence boost. :confuse:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Very good for the consumer, with a career not in the Japanese/Domestic automobile industry. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Genesis is sort like going from GS to LS in Lexus. The Azera, for now will be the GS, and the Genesis, will be the LS. I don't know exactly what the future plans are for Hyundai, but the Genesis, appears to be a hit. I'd like to see Hyundai, spice up the Azera, by going with a AWD system. The way it looks I feel confident these people know what they are doing. ;)

    Rocky
  • gpkgpk Posts: 38
    I wonder when honda will figure things out about RWD and V8s

    Rumor has it that the next Acura RL will have both. Honda has been famous for doing more with less but I digress. No I feel that Hyundai is good for everyone involved in the auto industry. Will the Genesis be the end all? Thats irrelevant. The point is just the car itself forces Honda into RWD v-8 scene and for me that is a good thing.
    Content wise that is good for all consumers. As far as the domestics I wonder what if anything can save them? You kinda have to stop shooting yourself in the foot like GM and Ford are famous for. Chrysler is at last rites along with mitsubishi. I remember reading in The Wall Street Journal that Toyota/Honda/Hyundai/Nissan RD departments are huge compared to GM/F/C. That says a lot right there as well.
    You cannot remain competitive in the auto industry by sitting still. The only segment where they try to compete is in huge SUV's and Full size truck segment. Which is losing them market share and not really helping them at all.

    In the town where I live the amount of Hyundai and Kia's on the road is constantly increasing.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,713
    I really don't think Hyundai is currently interested in building a new marque. Hyundai is building a name for building a high quality, high content car for less and its working for them. I feel that they will continue with this strategy. Building a new luxury marque will go against that strategy as one builds the name as a status symbol.

    If Hyundai creates a luxury marque it won't be for some time.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    I as you know would 100% agree with your perspective. :blush:

    I think in a decade or so the Hyundai, name could be mentioned in the same breath as Lexus, and Kia, could build a reputation to be mentioned in the same breath as Toyota. ;)

    Rocky
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,713
    Are you saying that there will be a slow shift of Hyundai going more and more upscale and Kia becoming more and more like Hyundai. That in the future Kia will be all low and mid level cars like Hyundai is now and Hyundai would be high end cars?

    Possible.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Well sort of. I still think Kia, will make very inexpensive cars on the cheap but at the same time they will stretch into where Hyundai, is now (someday)

    I think Hyundai, will go slightly more up market in the future starting with the Genesis. I still think it will be a very long time before we see a $55K+ Hyundai

    Rocky
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    isn't Kia owned by Hyundai? It would make sense that Kia would go against Toyota and Hyundai go against Lexus down the road.

    -mike
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    I think that's exactly what they're going to do: bring in more high-end models and leave the inexpensive entry-level stuff to Kia.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    If the Genesis is supposed to start "well under" $30k (V6 version), what happens to Axera? Is this Azera's replacement?

    The Azera is Hyundai's FWD flagship at the moment, but the Genesis will bump it down a notch in the pecking order. The Azera is slated to get the Sonata 3.3L V6 as an option (the 3.8L V6 is the only current engine), which would put in solidly in the mid-$20s range, while the top-end Azera would cost about as much as the base V6 Genesis in the $28-29k neighborhood.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Yep !!!!! I'd be willing to place a bet on it that is what happens. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    I didn't know the Azera, is going to get the Sonata's 3.3L V6 ? When is that going to happen ?

    Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    2008 MY, I believe. The Azera is already sold with that engine in most of the rest of the world.
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