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Hyundai Genesis Sedan 2009+

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Comments

  • ricwhitericwhite Posts: 292
    I come from an extended family of Lexus, BMW and Acura owners. They would not be CAUGHT DEAD owning a Hyundai. Some have serious "image" concerns. Can you see an attorney driving clients around in a Hyundai? No way.

    They all LOVE my Azera and when we have gatherings or dinner appointments, they always choose my Azera over their higher priced cars (well . . . maybe they just want me to drive). Anyway, they have nothing but praise for my Hyundai Azera.

    However, the "image" of that car company steers them away. I think it would be a mistake to keep the Hyundai name for their luxury line. They need to break off.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    While I would like to see Hyundai's luxury brand, I can see why in near-term Hyundai vehicles continue to be badged under the Hyundai nameplate. Despite the past baggage (which is quickly disposed), it is still more recognized than a new brand. Regardless, you have to start somewhere to build equity, timing, however, is critical.

    There are other issues such as dealer network which need to sorted and worked out.
  • burneedogburneedog Posts: 19
    I disagree. I just don't see Kia with that kind of brand clout for many years. When shopping for my new Azera, I looked at a dozen or so cars from most manufacturers - Altima and Maxima from Nissan, Camry and Avalon from Toyota, Accord from Honda, Sonata and Azera from Hyundai, and some of the luxury entry levels - Acura TL, Infinity G35, Volvo S60, and Lexus ES and IS. Never once did I ever consider the Amanti or Optima. If Hyundai is going to do the luxury brand, it's gonna have to be under a new nameplate. Hyundai as Toyota, sure, but Kia as Toyota? Not in my opinion.
  • gamlegedgamleged Posts: 442
    "If Hyundai follows snakeweasel's idea to name their luxury division Genesis, not only they can use each book of the Bibiel, but they could also use people's name too! Like Delilah for instance! Absalom, Nebuchadnezzar, and so on."

    Like to see someone try the "badgeless" look by removing all the identification from a Hyundai Nebuchadnezzar!... ;)
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,703
    How about the Hyundai Mahershalalhashbaz

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    Hyundai still has a long way to go to promote the luxury image.
    Many of the local dealerships appear to be very shabby and in disrepair.
    Most of the local dealerships in my area have changed ownership in the last couple of years.
    Several have closed completely,
    From what I have been told at my local dealership, the corporate support and communications have been poor.
    Most owners participating on these forums indicate lack of help and support from Hyundai Consumer Affairs.
    Participation in the luxury market, in my opinion, requires more than having the cheapest price.
    "Luxury" buyers demand more.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    You are the Hyundai, customer. One who wants all the luxury, quality, reliability, but doesn't want to shell out the extra dough to have a certain emblem. The same aplly's to clothes. I will not pay the extra money to have a logo on my [non-permissible content removed]. If the clothes are comfy and look good I will buy them. I do try to buy american made clothes and shoes if they aren't ripping me off over a style trend.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    ;) I think there is a alot of people that fit this category snake. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Well I think it would be a mistake for Hyundai, to break off because that's where you get caught up with prices, emblems, image. Who gives a crap about image. If Johnny, jumps off the cliff are you going to follow him ? I don't want to look like a idiot and say hey look at what I paid for this. I know I got ripped off and threw money down the drain but I'm trendy. Good God, grow up people !!!!

    If Hyundai, broke off and created a luxury division it would ruin there place in the market place. If I'm going to have to wear the price tag of my new shirt to show everyone what I paid for it or in this case drive at least a month with the original window sticker, I might as well become a "no self confidence" sucker and buy the originals like a BMW 5 series, Lexus LS, Mercedes E class. ;) Hell if your going to price them up by creating a seperate brand I'd rather go buy a Cadillac. I thought this was Hyundai's appeal to the customer. They are a car company that will give you pretty much everything at a discounted price. You can get Armani style and quality at Costco prices.

    Enjoy your Azera, and feel confident about driving it. My god this isn't the 80's when Hyundai, made some eyebrow raisers. I'd drive the Azera, over a Toyoda anyday. ;)

    Rocky
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,703
    Hyundai still has a long way to go to promote the luxury image.

    I really don't think Hyundai is trying to promote a "luxury image". I think Hyundai is trying to promote the same more for less that they have been in the past. IMHO Hyundais target market with the Genesis is not the Lexus, MB and BMW buyer but the Avalon buyer who wants more but will not or cannot shell out the money to buy a Lexus, MB or BMW.

    Many of the local dealerships appear to be very shabby and in disrepair.

    many of the local ones here seem to be in good shape. One even sells Buicks and Saabs.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I absolutely don't see hyundai going ubber luxury. I see them more taking on the middle class and upper middle class demographic that wants a "luxury" car but doesn't have the means to pay for the "luxury" brands such as Lexus, Acura, MB, BMW, Caddy and don't really care about the "service" provided by those brands such as the free loaners, and the doting over the customer that we see from those high-end brands. Essentially they want something luxury and a middle of the road price. This is where I think Hyundai can shine and really make themselves into the only player in a niche market.

    I know myself not having enough loot to buy into the "luxury" class of vehicle would jump on something like this in a heartbeat. I don't need to have the sales guys or the service guys give me a latte when I bring it in for service, nor do I need a loaner car. More of a blue-collar luxury car than a blue-blood luxury car!

    -mike
  • nycdc911nycdc911 Posts: 27
    rockylee, you seriously see Hyundai "beoming a Lexus like brand with Hyundai like prices"? What are you smoking?? Hyundai makes the cheapest cars in the world along with Kia and still has a bad reputation among the vast majority of people, and you think they're going to be the absolute pinnacle of luxury like Lexus? When people think Lexus the company or even Lexus the word, it is the very definition of luxury, because Toyota planned it that way from the start, as a LUXURY ONLY brand.

    You say you "think it's a waste of money to spend the extra money for a emblem when I'd rather have the better product for less". What extra money? Hyundai will charge $29-40,000 for the upcoming Genesis sedan whether it's a Hyundai or a new luxury division car with a name like Genesis M.

    The only difference is a new luxury division will appeal to both luxury car owners as well as economy car owners looking to move up, while keeping it a Hyundai will only appeal to economy car owners. Even the economy car owners would rather have a Genesis luxury brand car for the same price compared to having the same car called a Hyundai. So really, Hyundai/Genesis could sell 4 times as many of these cars if they created a luxury brand. So the downside of calling it a Hyundai is huge, and there is no downside to creating a new luxury division which Hyundai is definitely going to do anyway. It wouldn't make sense to make a car this good and not make it part of the inevitable luxury division. Calling it a Hyundai would lose a lot of money and sales and market share.

    Would anybody here who currently drives a luxury car buy a Hyundai instead of another luxury brand car? I know I wouldn't because the new G35x is an almost perfect car. Well the number of luxury car owners even looking at this thread is a tiny fraction of the total number of luxury car owners, and most of them wouldn't even think of considering a Hyundai. Think of the 95% of the rest of luxury car buyers, a Genesis luxury car company could sell to them just like Lexus does.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    I never said it was going to be a over night thing. I'm looking will into the next decade. Toyota, nor Honda, had the clout when they came to the states. They won customers by under cutting the compeitition. They gave you a lot more car for a lot less money. They presently feel they can charge whatever they want and get customers still. I think there is a bunch of people in this world who could care less about a emblem. They want the best damn car for their buck. That's how the millionaire next door made his money. He wanted luxury but wasn't going to spend his hard earn cash on mark-ups. It would be like throwing good money down a drain. If Hyundai, can continue to build better Kia's to match Toyota's offerings at a cheaper price and if Hyundai, can build Lexus, like vehicles at Toyota, prices you will see success in the long-term in my estimation. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    You are smoking something believing that by creating a seperate luxury brand which btw will cost perhaps in the billions to do is going to get luxury car buyers out of there Lexus's, Acura's, Mercedes, Cadillac's. I suppose a small fraction would look at the Genesis luxury brand or whatever you want to call it if it was expensive enough. I think by creating a seperate luxury brand would be a huge mistake at this point. They do not need three brands. So you aresaying eliminate Kia, and call them Hyundai, and have Hyundai/Genesis as the two brands. Kia, sells a lot of inexpensive automobiles and makes a good profit doing it. I think Kia, can build themselves up and also offer nicer cars that will go head to head against camcords. Hyundai, can get away with moving slightly up market but still remain inexpensive to under cut the competition.

    I respect you perspective but I feel right now and in the near future this isn't the time to make a seperate brand.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Participation in the luxury market, in my opinion, requires more than having the cheapest price. "Luxury" buyers demand more.

    I agree.....I think Hyundai, is still relatively young and they need to get the kinks worked out with their two brands they have now before thinking about creating another brand. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    WOW.........Now you put what I said into better words. :D

    That is exactly the way I see it. I think their is a huge market for blue-collar luxury and when the sales reports come in I believe us that think this way will be proven right. Just look at the new Veracruz SUV. That ride is smoking hott and is something middle and upper middle class folks can afford without going broke !!!!!

    Rocky
  • nycdc911nycdc911 Posts: 27
    rockylee, so are you saying Toyota made a mistake in starting the Lexus brand? You'd be laughed out of every business school in the country if you said something like that, Lexus has been a tremendous success. Just because you personally would like a $40,000 Hyundai doesn't mean anybody else would. You don't drive a luxury car do you? Nobody who drives a luxury car would consider a Hyundai. While both luxury car drivers and economy car drivers would consider a new luxury division Genesis car and even the economy car drivers would prefer that it be called a Genesis luxury division car instead of a Hyundai.

    I never said get rid of Kia, what does that have to do with starting a luxury division? Kia sounds much cooler than Hyundai, and having 3 divisions Genesis/Hyundai/Kia is fine like Lexus/Toyota/Scion or Lincoln/Mercury/Ford.

    I think you may be looking 15 years into the future and thinking of your wallet instead of Hyundai's profits. When Toyota first started Lexus, the original LS400 undercut the competition by $15-20,000 and still was considered a superior product by many. Nowadays a Lexus is just as expensive, the LS 600 hL will start at $104,000. So I think rockylee fears that if a new Genesis luxury division gets as much praise and sales as everyone knows it will, then it will follow the path of Lexus and prices will go up to the point that he won't be able to afford them anymore. Well too bad. Hyundai/Genesis is trying to make money, not save you money. That's the way corporations work, they want to make the most money possible, and starting a new luxury division will do that, obviously. Calling it a Hyundai would lose a lot of money, sales, and market share, nobody can deny that.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    You do realize that Lexus, Acura and Infiniti are all made up for the USDM right? Everywhere else in the world where people aren't as sheepish as they are here in the US they are known as Toyota, Honda and Nissan! Similarly, MB sells more "blue collar" cars than "luxury" cars outside the USDM.

    -mike
  • nycdc911nycdc911 Posts: 27
    Wrong, from wikipedia:

    "Lexus brand name vehicles are sold in North America, Europe, Asia, the Middle East, Oceania, Africa, and Latin America"

    "Acura is a brand name used by the Japanese car manufacturer Honda in the US, Canada and Hong Kong since March 1986 to market luxury automobiles and near-luxury vehicles. The brand was introduced to Mexico in 2004 and to the Chinese market in 2006. It is also planned to extend Acura to the Japanese domestic market in 2008."

    "Infiniti is a Japanese brand used by Nissan, an automobile manufacturer and serves as Nissan's luxury brand to the United States, Canadian, Mexican, Middle Eastern, South Korean (first dealership opened in July 2005) and Taiwanese markets. Nissan also has plans to release Infiniti into many European markets (Russia & Ukraine in 2007, United Kingdom in 2008 [1]), China (10 dealerships by 2007), as well as in Japan sometime after 2008."

    Anyone that owns a luxury car will only consider luxury brands, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, and Volkswagen/Audi figured that out long ago. A Genesis luxury brand would maximize profits for Hyundai and would appeal to a much wider group of people than just calling it a Hyundai.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Oh right I forgot the Wikipedia is always right. I've found more incorrect facts there than correct ones, so please don't quote it as gospel.

    Ok, maybe not only NA, however in most markets it's not split up, there are never any absolutes, but for the most part outside the US, these luxo brands are considered the same as the parent company. Especially in Japan, their own Domestic market!

    Anyone that owns a luxury car will only consider luxury brands, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, and Volkswagen/Audi figured that out long ago. A Genesis luxury brand would maximize profits for Hyundai and would appeal to a much wider group of people than just calling it a Hyundai.
    Anyone who owns a luxury car, won't be buying a Hyundai under any name. Heck most won't buy VW/Audi, Infiniti or Acura for that matter! And to put the VW name up there with "luxury" is funny. Remember the Phaeton?

    -mike
  • nycdc911nycdc911 Posts: 27
    My whole family owns German and Japanese luxury cars and we'd all consider Genesis luxury cars, we'd never consider a Hyundai. In fact I talked to a Korean American whose family owns several luxury cars and he said the same thing about the Hyundai Genesis, his family would never buy a Hyundai but would love to consider new luxury division Genesis cars. VW Phaeton didn't sell, Hyundai Genesis won't sell.

    Hyundai is copying Toyota in everything it does, just look at the Camry grill on the Genesis! Toyota started Lexus with a RWD V8 luxury sedan costing $15-20,000 less than the competition and revolutionized the car industry as well as their profits. Hyundai wants and needs to do the same with their own luxury division. It's like 1989 all over again, we all must learn from history about proven unbeatable strategies.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Ok well we'll have to agree to disagree on this. Who knows you might be right. I am not opposed to a luxury division but I think right now it's in their best interest to NOT start a new division. Build on what they have, and go from there. This is where the Blue-Blood Luxury Cars v. Blue-Collar Luxury Cars come in, Blue-Blooded folks need their EGOs stroked by having an exclusive car company, whereas Blue-Collar folks aren't so hung up on the badge on the car.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    It's like 1989 all over again, we all must learn from history about proven unbeatable strategies.

    Also in 1989 the USD bought a lot more Yen IIRC, it was much much more of a favorable rate than it is now.

    -mike
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    rockylee, so are you saying Toyota made a mistake in starting the Lexus brand? You'd be laughed out of every business school in the country if you said something like that, Lexus has been a tremendous success.

    I never said that. Toyota, has been very successful starting up Lexus, and at one time the Lexus, brand under cut Cadillac, Mercedes, BMW, but when the brand first started not all of them were great cars. What was the first Camry clone Lexus, made ? It was a Camry with a Lexus emblem on it. At least today they look a lot more different even if the Lexus, model is a rebadge toyota.

    I think Hyundai, can be a Lexus brand with careful planning. Yes it will take time and money to get the appeal but the most important thing is for Hyundai, is to not go head to head with Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, Cadillac, in pricing themselves high. I think if they can keep the blue- collar Lexus image going they will win a lot of buyers because like paisan, said we middle-upper middle class want the luxury but don't have the loot. ;)

    Just because you personally would like a $40,000 Hyundai doesn't mean anybody else would. You don't drive a luxury car do you?

    Let's see I've owned 2 Cadillac's and 1 Acura TL, but currently no I don't own a luxury car but more than likely my next car will be a luxury performance car.

    Nobody who drives a luxury car would consider a Hyundai.

    Well I disagree because some would rather save there money than waste it on a emblem. Rich people who worked for there money didn't get it by being wasteful. ;) I also don't think Hyundai, is after those buyers anyways as I'd be willing to bet 80% of there sales come from blue collar americans that want to reward themselves with a affordable luxury vehicle. ;)

    While both luxury car drivers and economy car drivers would consider a new luxury division Genesis car and even the economy car drivers would prefer that it be called a Genesis luxury division car instead of a Hyundai.

    I honestly could care less. I don't need a emblem to judge a car whether it's worthy or not. I will judge the product not the name. Only a fool will spend more to get less or the same IMHO !!!!!

    I never said get rid of Kia, what does that have to do with starting a luxury division? Kia sounds much cooler than Hyundai, and having 3 divisions Genesis/Hyundai/Kia is fine like Lexus/Toyota/Scion or Lincoln/Mercury/Ford.

    Scion, is on life support. I've only seen two Scion's since the brand has came out. It might be successful on the coasts but they are a rare find in the midwest and southern states. Lincoln Ford, Mercury, isn't a sucess. Mercury, Ford, and Lincoln, have to many rebadges. Ford, has thought about killing off Mercury for years as the brand is too much like Ford. Lincoln, has the MKZ, which is a Milan, with a upscale interior. you gotta be kidding me. :surprise:

    I think you may be looking 15 years into the future and thinking of your wallet instead of Hyundai's profits. When Toyota first started Lexus, the original LS400 undercut the competition by $15-20,000 and still was considered a superior product by many.

    It took them 5 years before they starting showing signs of being successful. The original LS 400 was a disaster with problems. Sure now it's a icon in the Luxury field but it wasn't all good at the beginning. They did gain sales by under cutting the competition like you said but now they have moved so far up market that young kids buying toyota's are more than likely will never own a Lexus LS. They would have to settle for a rebadged Camry in the ES 350, or a rebadged Highlander in the RX 330, and the IS, is so small only the "little people" from the "wizard of oz" can drive them. :P

    Nowadays a Lexus is just as expensive, the LS 600 hL will start at $104,000. So I think rockylee fears that if a new Genesis luxury division gets as much praise and sales as everyone knows it will, then it will follow the path of Lexus and prices will go up to the point that he won't be able to afford them anymore.

    That is somewhat true but then I can afford a Cadillac, STS. My point is then another luxury brand will come along and replace Hyundai. I think the luxury brand field is to crowded as it is now let alone place another one in the market. I feel there is a place for a niche brand like Hyundai, to be the working mans Cadillac. I do think over time if Hyundai, stays in this segment of being that you will see some price cuts from the top. If Hyundai, builds a 500 hp BMW M5 Genesis, for lets say $49,000 why would any one in there right mind go waste $30-40K to own a M5, unless you have so much money you don't care. :confuse:

    Well too bad.

    To bad for who ? I have not seen Hyundai, annouce they are going to have a luxury emblem to satisfy your insecurity. What you think if you buy a HYUNDAI Genesis, you won't be invited to the cocktail party's ? I personally don't want to associate myself with people that are that arrogant. I like down to earth folks.

    Hyundai/Genesis is trying to make money, not save you money.

    They will make money by saving me money. If they overcharge like the other luxury emblems why would I bother buying a Genesis, when I can buy a Lexus for the same money ? Lexus, has a reputation for superb customer service and I could get a latte in the service department while I wait. See where I'm getting at ? Probably not ! :surprise:

    That's the way corporations work, they want to make the most money possible, and starting a new luxury division will do that, obviously. Calling it a Hyundai would lose a lot of money, sales, and market share, nobody can deny that.

    I think your proposal would be a disaster, thus I'm denying it. I think as Hyundai, management said they want to make the Genesis, as the millionaire next door will buy. They don't want to charge you a obscene price for a emblem. If Hyundai, sticks to this philosophy, they could easily be one of the automotive giants by 2015. I mean be in the top 3 is sales volume.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    paisan, now your my type of "down to earth" host. ;)

    Rocky
  • nycdc911nycdc911 Posts: 27
    These posts are getting too long. The main point is, a Genesis luxury division would appeal to both the luxury car owners, and the economy car owners looking to move up, let's say there's 15,000 of each of those 2 groups that would buy a Genesis M luxury division sedan. A Hyundai would only appeal to economy car owners and some of those 15,000 economy owners that would have opted for a luxury division Genesis won't want a Hyundai because they want to move up from a Toyota to an Infiniti or Lexus, not move down to a Hyundai no matter how good it is.

    So with a luxury Genesis division, 30,000 of these cars are sold.

    Calling it a Hyundai, 10,000 are sold.

    The Genesis is much better than anything Acura or Infiniti sells and is the equal of Lexus' 380 hp flagship LS460 in length and engine size and plans to be roomier and sportier. Hyundai plans on eventually starting a luxury brand, well if they don't start one with this $40,000 car, what the heck are they going to start it with?? A $50,000 car with 500 hp???
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    RE: 148
    Where is this Genesis that you claim is better than Acura and Lexus.
    I believe that this is still a concept car and that the first production model has yet to be produced and tested.
    As a first time Hyundai ( Azera) owner, I am pleased with the car, but feel that the corporate support has a long way to go.
    They should address some of these issues prior to introducing too many new models.
  • jaymagicjaymagic Posts: 309
    I am thinking Hyundai corporate should just provide a decent set of Hyundai badged earmuffs to those few 06 Azera owners who think they hear a clunk. ;)
  • gamlegedgamleged Posts: 442
    "I am thinking Hyundai corporate should just provide a decent set of Hyundai badged earmuffs to those few 06 Azera owners who think they hear a clunk. ;) "

    You a bad, BAD man!... :D
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