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Hyundai Genesis Sedan 2009+

rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
Well while I was away from edmunds for a few weeks I didn't totally give up on cars. When I did a little research on the models at the New York Autoshow, I ran across this hot looking Hyundai.

When I examined the details I scratched my head and said WOW ! :surprise: Hyundai, might of just hit the Jackpot. It sure looks great on paper ;)

So I think it's very important to start discussing one of the most important launches in Automotive History. If this car is a winner, it could send shock waves around the globe. One could buy a Lexus at Toyota, prices has been quoted.

I as a very loyal GM, fan love the design of this future great automobile. I look at it as the Cadillac STS, I always wanted and getting it for a Pontiac Bonneville Price ;)

Rocky
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Comments

  • Hey rocky!

    Long time coming... I haven't posted here in a while, but it seems things have been pretty busy at hyundai. I, too, like the concept car Genesis. It does resemble the Toyota Camry in a way, but it's more luxurious. I also like the front end of the new concept opened at Seoul. I forgot what it was called, but it totally looks like the future of the Tiburon. If the front end looks anything like it, I'm totally buying it!

    Anyhow, hope to hear from a potential hyundai fan/customer...lol.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well kingslamon, we will see if the "on-paper" is as good as it is in person. ;)

    I as a GM, fan am terrified of this vehicle. I think Toyota, is fearful also. A Luxury Vehicle with a powerful refined RWD V8 at Toyota Camry prices is something we could predict but always wonder when ? Well it will be here in a few years and it will be interesting to see how the market reacts. Will car prices have to drop ? Can the manufactors using more expensive labor afford to drop MSRP's ? Hyundai, is using not only inexpensive South Korean, labor but they also buying inexpensive parts to manufactor this vehicle. Will it be "Toyota" like in the Luxury department or will it have content that is also found on Lexus class of vehicles ? If they can give it above average gadgetology aka creature features then this car will steal lots of sales from a lot of segments that want to upgrade without having to pay the high stickers !!!!!!

    Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    A dog and a cat who just got married riding on the back of a flying pig. ;) That's only slightly more common than Rocky drooling over a Hyundai. :P

    Anyway, the Genesis is set to be the second coming of the LS400. Big, luxurious, powerful, and light on the wallet. The BH (the platform code) is already the size of a BMW 7-series, and there's an even larger version (VI) in the works.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,752
    Looks like a pretty good car that Hyundai is coming out with. RWD 300+ HP and large for a reasonable price. This thing just might be a hit. My guess is that there are enough people that like the luxury but don't want to pay for a name to make this work.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    A dog and a cat who just got married riding on the back of a flying pig. That's only slightly more common than Rocky drooling over a Hyundai.

    Yes bumpy, I am drooling over this Hyuyndai. The Veracruz looks to be about as nice. It's a poor mans Lexus, and if I wasn't so prejudice about buying a foreign car I would line up for one (Genesis) in the near future. ;)

    Anyway, the Genesis is set to be the second coming of the LS400. Big, luxurious, powerful, and light on the wallet. The BH (the platform code) is already the size of a BMW 7-series, and there's an even larger version (VI) in the works.

    It's going to kick the snot out of all luxury cars in my estimation. I did not know the platform could stretch to those siszes. I still think Hyundai, should offer the Delphi Magneride suspension as a option on the "Limited-Ultimate" ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    snakeweasel, If it's enough to get me to like it that pretty much tells you they have a hit. I'm pretty picky and conservative on my car choices. You won't see my driving a Aztek, like vehicle ever. I like smooth lines.......

    Rocky
  • killerbunnykillerbunny Posts: 141
    Rocky, I like this concept. But I don't think it will be anywhere close to Camry in terms of MSRP. As of now, Sonata is not much cheaper than Camry anyway.

    Let's say, Sonata is 5%~10% cheaper than Camry. Let Genesis be 5%~10% cheaper than the V8 RWD Toyota (LS460), subtract another 10% for not using an up-market brand name. That will still be at least $50,000 for the starting MSRP.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    What ????? Did you not watch the video on this car ? It won't even hit $40,000. Most estimates have a well loaded version "Limited" V8 being no higher than $35K

    The "Ultimate" Genesis is only expected to be in the upper $30K range if it's even that high. The 2008' Veracruz Limited-Ultimate package is the highest priced Hyundai, ever with a $37 and change MSRP. I don't expect the Genesis, Ultimate to be much if any more than that. ;)

    So $50K isn't going to happen unless they make a 7-series/S-Class competitor which as bumpy said could happen someday soon. ;)

    Rocky
  • killerbunnykillerbunny Posts: 141
    In that case, the Genesis won't be anywhere close to LS460 in terms of performance and quality.

    After double checking, Hyundai is not a company owned by God himself. They cannot create a super luxury car out of thin air.

    The Sonata, being a 5% better value than the Camry, is already an achievement. The Genesis will be the same, 5% better value than a car of same quality.

    After all, being a 5% better value is all you need to capture a market. That's how Lexus beats the crap out the MB in North America.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Like I said I can't make absolute factual comments on a car that isn't out yet but on paper I think it's realistic to say one will beable to own a Cadillac STS/Lexus 460/Mercedes E-class/BMW 5 series, like mixture of vehicles for entry brand money.

    I don't know how you can justify saying that Hyundai, won't have a very competitive offering ? One of their targets was the BMW 5 series in handling. I'm not saying this thing will carve up roads like a Bimmer, but in should be able to equal what the Infinti M45 is able to do which also had the 5-series as a target.

    You also are forgetting the difference in labor rates. The South Koreans, aren't exactly making are wages levels thus they are able to keep those costs down helping them undercut the competition. They are essentially not going to make the margin of profit on having a luxury brand name but they will still make a good profit and give the customer one hell of a vehicle for his buck.

    I checked out the Sonata vs. Camry and it appears you are taking a loaded out Sonata and comparing it to a base Camry :confuse: A loaded out Camry can touch well into the $30K range something a Sonata, won't even come close to. ;)

    Rocky
  • prosource1prosource1 Posts: 234
    Hyundai is merely doing what Lexus did 20 some years ago: offer a luxury car to battle the entrenched and over-priced marques at a budget price. Hyundai is selling 90% of its Azera's in the Limited and Ultimate package option which puts that at about $30k.. so this things could just fly and fly off the floors fast.
    Naysayers are claiming 'noone is going to buy a luxury Hyundai' because it doesn't have the prestige factor. AND LEXUS HAD PRESTIGE WHEN IT ARRIVED." DID IN THE 80'S? No, it didn't. Lexus invented and marketed themselves and the segment was redefined. Remember the Lexus add that changed it all. "From Question Mark to Benchmark"
    Look, the market is totally ready for a newcomer to shake things up. Hyundai is the Cinderella story of the automotive world and we know people love those stories. Check out what the Washington Post said:

    "It is a threat to anyone making cars, economy or luxury."

    "It(Hyundai)can topple General Motors. It can upset Toyota. It already has bypassed Nissan and Honda in global vehicle sales. It is as determined as any company to rank No. 1 on the world's automotive stage."

    "Consider the matter of engineering. The Veracruz comes with an easy-breathing, 260-horsepower, 3.8-liter V-6. It uses regular unleaded fuel. The engine is linked to a remarkably smooth six-speed automatic transmission. The comparable RX350 comes with a 3.5-liter, 270-horsepower V-6 that requires premium unleaded fuel. That engine is linked to a five-speed automatic transmission. Put another way, the Veracruz is less expensive to operate than the RX350. But it's every bit as much fun to drive."

    "the 2007 Hyundai Veracruz Limited crossover utility vehicle, which easily runs against the likes of the excellent Lexus RX350 -- for thousands of dollars less."

    "In design and creature comforts, the Veracruz -- especially the fully loaded Limited edition -- is an undisputed winner. It has a longer, more elegantly sculpted body than the RX350. Inside and out, it simply looks better. Inside, it also feels better -- more spacious, less cramped than the RX350."

    Mark my words: Hyundai is going to shake things up BIG-TIME!
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,752
    It's going to kick the snot out of all luxury cars in my estimation.

    It's going to hurt them but not kick the snot out of them. To many people want the name. You could sell a Yugo to many people if it only had a BMW, Benz or Lexus badge on it.

    What it will do is allow people who want the luxury but can't or don't want to spend the extra $10-15K on a name. Then once they get into a Hyundai they might just stay with it and deny the others future buyers.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    You have no disagreement from my side of the fence !!! ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I think snake, you will see a trend of buyers that need to rescue that 401K and make up those contributions but don't want to lose the feel of owning a Benz, Lexus, Caddy.

    That $10-15K savings can be as high as $20-$25K depending on what model you look at from the Elites.

    It will shake the automotive world up just like the Azera did only in a bigger way this time. ;)

    Rocky
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I'll post pics of it later today. I was there, and this car is hot. As for them coming in cheap, there is a lot of profit built into those high-end cars because they can get it from their customers. Do you really think that a MB S600 costs over 100k to build/design, nope.

    Anyway RWD is hot!

    -mike
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Yeah, I'd like to see them :)

    Rocky
  • prosource1prosource1 Posts: 234
    At the risk of being a brownnoser, the host is right on the profit thing. The Elite marques don't even need to offer reliability or quality but just offer the perception and marketing of such. I recall a recent Car and Driver article which noted engine failure in several of their long-term tests of BMW's below 50,000 miles. People who buy a BMW don't care though because the perception of the marque is greater than the reality of its failures. Hyundai has the opposite: the reality of their quality and durability is less than the perception of its previous failures and therefore prevents many customers from experiencing just how good recent Hyundai's are.
    Our family was loaded up with Hyundai's at one time and had so few problems that we were shocked and amazed that people thought we were driving 'junk'. We were alomost evangelistic to try to tell others just how good they were. This is what many Hyundai owners experience, partly due to low expectations, and why Hyundais return customers % is rapidly rising above other brands.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,249
    Where is the Genesis going to be built? What percent will be US content?
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Who cares what percent will be US content and where it will be built. As I say to all the folks out there who claim we need to buy american cars built here, I ask you, where are your clothes made? Guaranteed that they are not made here, and if they were they cost $500 for your outfit at the very least for a shirt and jeans.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    As for quality?

    My parents bought a Kia Optima 2 years ago, it's got 45k miles on it, zero problems. Paid $12k for it which included tax, tags, title, etc. I drove it and it was pretty darn good for a FWD 4-cylinder. Heck it's got projector headlights and manumatic shifting!

    Would I buy the optima they bought? Probably not because I like AWD or RWD cars, but, I have to say Hyundai and Kia are some of the best value cars out there.

    -mike
  • prosource1prosource1 Posts: 234
    The 'Genesis' will most like be built in the worlds largest plant in Ulsan, South Korea.
    I read recently that Hyundai is already planning on 5 liter variants of the 4.6 and direct injection and twin turbo applications that will make the Genesis over 500hp from the plant! Not taking that serious? Noone is taking the Genesis as a serious contender to the BMW or Lexus but neither did they take Lexus serious either. By the way, for anyone who thinks this could not measure up, Hyundai has already spent 5 years on the development of this and they know it has to meet or exceed expectations..that is why they keep changing and revising this thing. Also, Hyundai has the money to throw into this because its their 'halo' car that will catapault them to new heights of brand recognition and sales.
    This one car could change everything when it arrives.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,249
    I don't think you read my context correctly.

    I'm interested because if it's built here, it will sell even better. If not built in US, if its content is parts built here, i.e., a motor, and assembled elsewhere, that's better for them.

    I don't know where Hyundai has plants and builds what currently that might become Genesis production plants. That's what I was asking.

    I didn't ask about clothing, TVs, shoes, etc, since that's off topic.

    As someone who shopped Sonatas recently, I find this an interesting upscale for Hyundai. The only item I really didn't like on the Sonata was the lower profile, larger diameter tires. I want the old-fashioned 16-inch 60 profile or taller tires for what I consider a better ride. Yes, I know I'm out-of-fashion on that one. Other than that the Sonata could get my dollar. The Azera might even make it as a LeSabre replacement.

    As Toyota loudly advertises its US plants building cars, I believe the Hyundai has an even better chance of giving Honda/Toyota a run if the car is built in US or has a good content. I am in favor of Hyundai making a competitive car for competition with the cache the other two have built.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Sorry for that, I was verbally attacked by a Ford representative yesterday at NYIAS as to the fact that I drive a Nissan and that I'm hurting American workers etc and that Ford is supporting them etc. It irritated me that she couldn't see the fact that I'm going to buy whatever is the best product for my money. Hence the clothing reference because it's the same analogy of buying them from overseas due to the price/value being significantly higher than domestically produced goods.

    -mike
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,752
    In that case, the Genesis won't be anywhere close to LS460 in terms of performance and quality.

    It is possible to come close, and even exceed, performance and quality for less money. Cost does not always equate to performance and quality.

    But then again we are discussing a car that hasn't been produced yet. When we can touch and feel the real thing we can talk more on this.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,752
    Naysayers are claiming 'noone is going to buy a luxury Hyundai' because it doesn't have the prestige factor.

    I don't think Hyundai needs the prestige factor, its going to battle it out on price. There is a significant number of people who will buy it simply because it offers everything the other luxury cars offer (we are presuming) at a much lower cost. It has worked for Hyundai in the past.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • prosource1prosource1 Posts: 234
    Fords and Chev's built in Mexico, Honda's and Toyota's built in Canada, Hyundais and Benz's built in Alabama, BMW's built in South Carolina. When are people going to realize that we are living in a global community whose borders are being torn down daily. Either you accept this and learn to grow with it or you'll be like the record industry who lost 20% of its market last year, and even more this year, because they refuse to accept that music lovers wanted to download songs and not buy their whole albums. Welcome to an ever-changing Global community that doesn't care about your traditions or allegiances. Wake-up!
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Thanks prosource, at least someone is sane on the global economy thing! :)

    -mike
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    I don't know where Hyundai has plants and builds what currently that might become Genesis production plants.

    The Genesis (or whatever Hyundai decides to call the production version) will be built in Korea since it requires an entirely new production line, and being the halo car they would want to keep the engineering and production close at hand. There is some talk of setting up an Azera production line at the Hyundai plant in Alabama around 2009 (they build Sonatas and Santa Fes now).
  • prosource1prosource1 Posts: 234
    I wanted to add one thing about the Hyundai offering the Genesis:

    -Hyundai should have offered the Genesis at next years Detroit or NY Auto show which would have sent shockwaves thru their competitors. Now its not a secret and...

    -I'm guessing that Hyundai's competitors will not sit by and let an upstart like Hyundai trump them. That is a fact and is the basis for competition.

    -I'm guessing that Lexus, Acura and others will seek to offer an equivalent or better car for at least an equivalent price

    -I know that the consumer is going to be able to get more car for less money once Hyundai seeks to enter this market.
  • prosource1prosource1 Posts: 234
    Do you all think Hyundai will take an outfitted variant of the Veracruz, the I30 or Velostar, Azera, Genesis concept and develop a luxury line out of them. Hyundai has a number of concepts in the pipeline and has the production capability with new plants coming on-line to be able to put together a luxury bran with a new name. What do you think? Imagine how much of a shake up it would be if Hyundai showed up in 2008 with a 4 vehicle line-up that was $10-$25k cheaper than anything Lexus or others offered. Hyundai is really going after Toyota/Lexus so I would bet you would see a vehicle line-up to mimic that brand:

    Lexus Offering Hyundai Offering

    IS250/350 Variant of I30, Velostar comcept or C'eed
    GS 350 Azera variant w/new suspension;sh'tmetal
    RX 350 Veracruz variant
    Lexus LS 460 Hyundai I70 (Genesis Concept)
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