Midsize Sedans 2.0

nyccarguy

@ahightower‌

Nice write up. I'm glad you are happy with the car.

Fuel economy is far from the top of my "must have" list when I'm car shopping. I commute 65 miles round trip, 6 days a week. I keep track of it on fuelly just because I think it is cool. The cold weather we've been experiencing here in the North East has wreaked havoc on my Legacy's FE numbers. Why? Because I start the car up and let it idle in my driveway for at least 10 minutes every morning. Over close to 8,000 miles (Since September 27, 2014) I am averaging 25.6 MPG. My last 4 fill ups have been 22.7, 25.2, 22.2, & 23.9.

I too am very happy with my Legacy. It is a beast in the snow.

robr2

nyccarguy said:

@ahightower‌

Nice write up. I'm glad you are happy with the car.

Fuel economy is far from the top of my "must have" list when I'm car shopping. I commute 65 miles round trip, 6 days a week. I keep track of it on fuelly just because I think it is cool. The cold weather we've been experiencing here in the North East has wreaked havoc on my Legacy's FE numbers. Why? Because I start the car up and let it idle in my driveway for at least 10 minutes every morning. Over close to 8,000 miles (Since September 27, 2014) I am averaging 25.6 MPG. My last 4 fill ups have been 22.7, 25.2, 22.2, & 23.9.

I too am very happy with my Legacy. It is a beast in the snow.

Other than wanting a warm car, letting it idle that long doesn't help the car. Your best best bet is to start it up, let the idle drop down (30 seconds or so) and then go light on it until it reaches operating temp.

nyccarguy

@robr2‌

That's the ONLY reason I do it, to have a warm car.

suydam

I have a 2013 Accord EX-L and I love it too. I would agree with your assessment in nearly every way. Fuel economy is important to me, and I'm averaging 27-8 around town and 32-3 highway in this bitter winter weather we are having, much better in warmer weather. I also love the comfortable seats and the ease of driving it pretty much anywhere. Agree about the stereo. Unlike almost every reviewer I actually like the touch screen and find it very easy to use. I'm now sold on both backup camera and push button start and can't imagine getting a vehicle without them. Only been to the dealer twice for routine maintenance in 2 years. It's a great car.

explorerx4

My Fusion sits in the garage, so I just start it and go in the morning. The Escape sits outside, so I start it, put the defroster on max, get the heated seats going, and then scrape the glass and bring the newspaper in the house.
Took it to the car wash for the first time today. Kind of missed the temperature window by a few minutes, so I stole my wife's spot in the garage for a while to let it dry out. At least now I can see the real color on the hood.

[Deleted User]

venture said:

stickguy said:

Well, the 6 is one of the quickest mid size sedans these days. With the base engine. Yeah the accord, Altima and Camry come with a V6, making them hot rods, but with a very small take rate. But if you need that much power, it is out there.

One of my favorite cars ever owned was my 1991 626LX. Hatchback, 5 speed. Fun to drive, fine on the highway, all with a whopping 110hp/130pd-ft torque.

I am a little surprised Mazda hasn't come out with a turbo model. They must just not see enough sales potential. Besides, with sky activ, they are positioning the brand as fun to drive well balanced and class leading efficiency. Not 0-60 bragging rights.

They only offer one engine.

When I was looking last year I didn't even consider the Mazda 6 that time - mainly because of the engine. They are positioning so I won't buy it. Maybe I'm the only one.

I think Mazda should offer a small Turbo option. Perhaps the 2.0 form the Mazda3 with 245 HP to match the Kiahyundai Sonoptima twins and with maybe a modest $2000 extra on top of every model. There are many many people like myself that feel Mazda's offerings only offer one "Zoom", not two.

[Deleted User]

ahightower said:

Thought I'd give a little update on my car, a 2013 Accord Sport 6MT at 20,500 miles.

Fuel economy:
I've used the fuelly app since purchased new in June 2013. 56 fill-ups resulting in...
Best mpg: 31.3
Avg mpg: 27.8
This is not overly impressive given the advertised claims, but it's been basically a commuter, not a long distance cruiser. My commute decreased from 25 to 9 miles each way last April, and the avg took a hit. I simultaneously quit caring about FE because I only fill up every three weeks, and I almost never use the ECON button as I just prefer the more responsive throttle and full-blast AC. And I suppose the two or three long (200+ miles) highway trips I've taken were at somewhat higher speeds. I've seen the trip computer as high as 40 on medium distance 60ish mph jaunts, but the whole tank never ends up that high.

Reliability:
Perfect. Have had two oil changes and two tire patches. Changed the cabin air filter and cannot believe how simple it is compared to my previous car, a 2008 Mazda3 (i Touring 5MT). It's holding up very well, as I'd expect from a new car. Still tight as a drum, no squeaks or rattles. The driver's floor mat is a piece of s***, started to wear a hole through with the right heel in the first few months, ended up getting a heavy duty rubber floormat (from a Freightliner truck!) to lay over it and we're good now. Otherwise, no complaints.

Favorite features:
-All the little things that set the Sport apart from the LX still make me look back as I walk away. The wheels, the spoiler, the exhaust tips. The upgraded cloth interior is very durable. The leather-wrapped wheel and shift knob.
-Love the automatic climate control (a small luxury that makes a big difference), and the AC really kicks when it's hot - my old Mazda just wasn't up to the task of 100+ degree Texas summers.
-The rear-view camera is really useful.
-The *perfect* manual transmission, something to look forward to every day. Hill-holding feature, while of course I am an excellent driver and got really good with the footwork and/or the handbrake in my last car, it's quite nice to just let off the brake and know you're not going to meet the darn Escalade that's practically kissing your bumper. (BACK OFF, LADY!)
-Still appreciate all the leg room up front for me, and in back even with my seat nearly all the way back. We have three boys who fit comfortably enough three-across the back, so we often take my car to save fuel and lease miles on her SUV.

Mild disappointments:
-The stereo's sound quality is fine but not "good", and
-it quit displaying my iphone's text messages about three software updates ago.

Would I buy it again?:
Absolutely. It looks and feels much more expensive than it really was, and it's the perfect balance of comfort and sport. And it's going to make a great first car for the boys in a few years.

Great review!
cski says:

Audio system fix:

Back in the day all Accords had four, 6 1/2" paper speakers. Just remove and keep those, then add 4 kicker or Infinity Kappa 2 speakers with at least 60 watt RMS power handling. It will vastly improve your sound system.(the aftermarket car audio market has taken a huge hit due to integrated phone, camera, Bluetooth, and Pandora on stock head units that are also integrated on the steering wheel.) So,even Luxury brand speakers are cheap and very good quality. On a lease car I would just add a subwoofer and remove it when you turn in the car, and not even mess with any of the stock interior speakers. I would never swap out a head unit these days on any decent mid size to entry level luxury car . The stock look is the best look, and keeps thieves away.

I love the Sport. I still look back at my Kia EX all the time, but I also admit I look back when I see a Honda Accord Sport too. I wish you could get it in that nice blue color with the stick, but black cars are still "in" now. Gray makes me sad. lol.

Fuel Economy. I fill up once every two weeks, but the neat thing is that I bought an App for $2.99 called the AASpeed-meter. It offers me huge LCD digits in any color I want, kind of like a heads up display. It also includes an enhanced Google GPS system that is more sharp and 3-D. Now I use my cruise control all the time, and my F/E has increased dramatically. I am getting 24 to 25 mpg in combined driving city/highway/suburbia. It was speeding tickets because of the way my hand blocks my speedometer, which is buried too far back in the pod and hard to read beacuse it has too many hash-marks, and I need progressive lenses. I cant see how fast I am going quickly enough. I have to take my eyes off the road....where they should be. I really love the app. Available at Google Play.

brian125

Just seen a 1day old 2015 blue sport Accord in the bank parking lot. Very sharp looking with spoiler lid and dual chrome exhausts. I'd like this car in a Manuel.

andres3

I'd go for blue if I'm going for an Accord Sport. I hate CVT, but the Accord's is the first I could live with, and it was quite nice.

brian125

The 278 hp v-6 should be offered in the sport model.

brian125

In many states...MA, MD, VA, and CA Accords are selling 1000 to 2000 below invoice.

brian125

I'm still not totally sold on CVT's. Honda's CVT is excellent and much better than Nissan's.

CVT's currently have longevity issues with high horsepower \ torque engines. Actually modern automatics are much simpler than the older units. Mostly because the electronic brains are "simpler" than the older hydraulic controllers. That is the main reason the 8 and 9 gear transmissions are "possible" while being lighter and smaller than older 4 speeds. Cvt's are cheaper to build.

venture

cski said:

venture said:

stickguy said:

Well, the 6 is one of the quickest mid size sedans these days. With the base engine. Yeah the accord, Altima and Camry come with a V6, making them hot rods, but with a very small take rate. But if you need that much power, it is out there.

One of my favorite cars ever owned was my 1991 626LX. Hatchback, 5 speed. Fun to drive, fine on the highway, all with a whopping 110hp/130pd-ft torque.

I am a little surprised Mazda hasn't come out with a turbo model. They must just not see enough sales potential. Besides, with sky activ, they are positioning the brand as fun to drive well balanced and class leading efficiency. Not 0-60 bragging rights.

They only offer one engine.

When I was looking last year I didn't even consider the Mazda 6 that time - mainly because of the engine. They are positioning so I won't buy it. Maybe I'm the only one.

I think Mazda should offer a small Turbo option. Perhaps the 2.0 form the Mazda3 with 245 HP to match the Kiahyundai Sonoptima twins and with maybe a modest $2000 extra on top of every model. There are many many people like myself that feel Mazda's offerings only offer one "Zoom", not two.

I think so too. After having a 6S GT with the v6, there's no way I could settle with their current offering. That's the only car I ever had that I would take out for a ride if I woke up in the middle of the night.

I figured it must have been just me, but I asked a friend who sells cars what percentage of people buy a car without asking about the engine. He said, surprisingly, only about 25%.

andres3

My progression in car engines for myself has been from the 2.0L 4-banger in the Neon (when it actually ran, pretty sprightly 132 HP pushing 2,300 lbs.), to the 3.0 V6 in the Accord (240 HP), to the 2.0T 4 Cylinder in the A3 (200 HP but felt like 240 or 250), to the 3.0 Supercharged V6 in the S4 (333 HP that feels like 375 HP).

Seem like I like 2.0 and 3.0 engines.

nyccarguy

@brian125‌

I've heard some early adopter CVT horror stories. Specifically I know 2 people who had the CVTs replaced in their Jeep Patriot/Compass at 60K, then 120K. I'll bet 90% of the people wouldn't know they aren't driving a conventional automatic. I'm impressed with my Legacy's CVT.

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

@brian125‌

I've heard some early adopter CVT horror stories. Specifically I know 2 people who had the CVTs replaced in their Jeep Patriot/Compass at 60K, then 120K. I'll bet 90% of the people wouldn't know they aren't driving a conventional automatic. I'm impressed with my Legacy's CVT.

When we test drove the Outback 3.6 a week or so ago, I don't think my wife noticed that it was a CVT, even though the salesman told her. It has paddle shifters on the steering wheel to up/down shift, rather than using the shift lever, as she's used to.

brian125

I test drove the 2015 Forrester , Outback and the legacy. Subaru has done a very good job with all three vehicles. The legacy is a Very nice car. The CVT felt fine with plenty of room. . I was very Impressed with the Outback 3.6r on my test drive. I only went 2 blocks cause there was a older lady in the bathroom going for a test drive. I basically jumped in it and stole it for 2 blocks . lol. Inside the Outback was plenty of head and hip room. big trunk space, back seats . Very nice upscale and lay out of the dash and features. For some reason the motor sounded very loud. I'm thinking cause it was cold out and the car might have been sitting for weeks. The 3.6 was very fast and handled fine in my limited test run. At 6'2 245 This Outback seemed like a nice fit. Perfect vehicle for a growing family. Didn't get to see what MPG's were on the 3.6 or look at the sticker. The lady in the bathroom was standing outside the dealership waiting for me with a pissed off look. Didn't want to push my luck further.

Michaell

brian125 said:

I test drove the 2015 Forrester , Outback and the legacy. Subaru has done a very good job with all three vehicles. The legacy is a Very nice car. The CVT felt fine with plenty of room. . I was very Impressed with the Outback 3.6r on my test drive. I only went 2 blocks cause there was a older lady in the bathroom going for a test drive. I basically jumped in it and stole it for 2 blocks . lol. Inside the Outback was plenty of head and hip room. big trunk space, back seats . Very nice upscale and lay out of the dash and features. For some reason the motor sounded very loud. I'm thinking cause it was cold out and the car might have been sitting for weeks. The 3.6 was very fast and handled fine in my limited test run. At 6'2 245 This Outback seemed like a nice fit. Perfect vehicle for a growing family. Didn't get to see what MPG's were on the 3.6 or look at the sticker. The lady in the bathroom was standing outside the dealership waiting for me with a pissed off look. Didn't want to push my luck further.

The 3.6 is rated at 20/27 ... we put a deposit down on one that will be arriving at the dealer in a couple of weeks.

sda

suydam said:

I have a 2013 Accord EX-L and I love it too. I would agree with your assessment in nearly every way. Fuel economy is important to me, and I'm averaging 27-8 around town and 32-3 highway in this bitter winter weather we are having, much better in warmer weather. I also love the comfortable seats and the ease of driving it pretty much anywhere. Agree about the stereo. Unlike almost every reviewer I actually like the touch screen and find it very easy to use. I'm now sold on both backup camera and push button start and can't imagine getting a vehicle without them. Only been to the dealer twice for routine maintenance in 2 years. It's a great car.

My 2013 with nearly 34k has required nothing more than regular maintenance. Though I would have preferred Michelins, the GoodYear assurance fuel max tires ride smoothly and seem to be lasting. Currently have between 6-7/32 and are wearing evenly. The CVT is ok. I like how smooth and seamless it is in slow moving traffic and how it progressively adjusts when driving up and down grades. That is really nice on interstate drives, no constant down and up shifts as I try to maintain a steady speed. It also seems responsive enough. If you floor it it quickly kicks down to a lower ratio. What I've been especially impressed with is how quickly it accelerates 45-70 and above. Makes merging and passing fun! I have also found that I can eliminate that CVT drone by lightly letting up on the accelerator, it quickly moves up (simulated shift, revs drop) and then continue accelerating. Because my drive of 40+ miles each way 5 days a week, ny car guy has me beat here, is roughly 70% highway driving 60-75mph, my gas mileage has stayed above 34 mpg. I sometimes see 40 mpg on single drives. I think the CVT has been a plus here. Very pleased so far.

brian125

@Michaell

The Outback vehicle is a great choice. Resale/ reliability should be very good on this model.

Congrats

brian125

JD powers new 2015 vehicle Dependability list.... Lexus #1 4 yrs. running . 2 Buick. 3. Cadillac. 4 Toyota

Check out the 4 min clip on the 3 biggest complaints concerns with most vehicles.

http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/2015-vehicle-dependability-study

akirby

If you throw out the first one and the last two the range of expected problems in the first 3 years is 1.1 - 1.9. And that includes bluetooth and voice recognition problems. Compare this to 2005 or 1995 and you'll see that even the worst vehicles today are pretty good mechanically.

berri

But Ford is still low ranked. This drop all happened while Fields was running NA, so it does make me wonder if he is really the right person for CEO? If not, hopefully the Ford family will be quicker to replace him than they were with Nasser.

akirby

These were 2012 vehicles. Ford had MFT problems and Focus transmission problems back then.

explorerx4

To me, CR has a unique definition of 'dependability'.

berri

These were 2012 vehicles. Ford had MFT problems and Focus transmission problems back then

Yep, and Mark Fields was running NA. Hopefully I'm wrong, but his track record doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy. I'm concerned he will let GM get further out ahead during his tenure. I just don't want to see another Nasser debacle. Or for that matter a Toyota like fiasco like when non family member Wantanabe was running it. Personally, I don't think a lot of 07-09 Toyota's were the best that company made either.

ahightower

Well, team... I was camping with my boys last weekend, and as it began to rain while I crammed a bunch of wet gear into the back of my wife's Nissan, I thought to myself for the hundredth time how convenient a pickup would be. Serial car shopper that I am, one thing led to another, and I turned my Accord into a Tacoma last night. I wish I had the space and budget to keep the Accord as my commuter and play with the truck on the weekends. But circumstances only allow me one, and given my newly short commute, the truck is acceptable as a daily driver. So I've got my official Texas Man Card at long last. This has been a fun and active forum, wish you all well.
-AH

brian125

@ahightower


May your beloved Accord........................ R.I.P

Good luck with your Tacoma. You will get plenty of good use out of it.

akirby

berri said:

Yep, and Mark Fields was running NA. Hopefully I'm wrong, but his track record doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy. I'm concerned he will let GM get further out ahead during his tenure.

Mulally was running the company at that time so you can't just blame Fields. I think Ford simply got too aggressive with cost cutting after near bankruptcy. They also got too aggressive with mpg targets which is why they used the powershift DCT on the Focus and Fiesta which has been problematic. My Ford Touch was a fiasco because they chose the wrong company to build it and they failed - and Ford didn't have a backup plan for the 2011 Edge where it debuted so they were stuck with a bad choice and a terrible choice. The other problem was trying to adapt European platforms like Focus, Kuga and Mondeo to North American production which caused problems when launching the Focus, Escape and Fusion.

I think most of those problems are now behind them. They're hiring again to fill in the gaps from the cost cutting. The global platforms are now in place and MFT is being replaced with Sync 3. We're also seeing the second generation of ecoboost engines which appear to be much better than the first gen.

If you stop and think about how many new platforms and new vehicles and new engines/drivetrains Ford has put out the last few years it's no wonder they had some teething problems. If we don't see improvements over the next 2-3 years then I'll get worried. But not yet.

benjaminh

In my local paper yesterday, there were ads for the following midsize cars for $19.5 k or less: 2015 Passat 1.8T, 2015 Altima, 2015 Fusion, 2015 Camry. Those are all good cars at very good prices. Which one would you get? I'd be tempted to test drive the Passat with its new turbo engine, but VW and reliability are two words that don't always go together. Had an Altima recently as a rental, and was mixed about it. The Fusion looks good, but the base engine is rather a dog. And, for all of those cars mentioned so far, the rear visibility is only so so. The new Camry looks like it's scowling, but it is improved in several ways, and is made in my home state. Hard to beat that price. Shocking, but I might go with the Camry. Of course, for probably $500 or so more I could have an Accord, and so I'd probably go with that, given that I'm a Honda fan. But shockingly now the Camry comes second for me. And the value is hard to beat.

stickguy

if they were all base models, probably the camry too. Though I would give the Passat a look.

the Altima, I consider that a cheap lease if you need a cheap beater option.

Camry is a good deal. they added quite a bit of content to the base cars (at least the LE, not sure if there is a strippo model below it). Good car to get for a kid.

roadburner

If I was in that market the only cars I would consider are the Accord Sport and Mazda6. To my eyes the Passat has been "Americanized" into a Camry with slight Germanic overtones- and I don't mean that as a compliment.

stickguy

The Passat is huge inside. Like a limo back seat and trunk. But, it still drives and rides pretty nicely.

The Accord sport is nice. You would like it with a stick. No moonroof, and very light on any options (basically no safety tech outside of a backup camera). Not blind spot monitoring, and it lets you wander around lanes and run into cars in front of you to your hearts content.

I did try to buy one, but the dealer that had some left drove us away. That was the CVT. worked pretty well in that car. I never drove the stick version, but I am sure I would have liked it.

brian125

Without test driving the Fusion and Sonata my List would not be 100% accurate.

I was impressed with the 2015 Passat. I test drove the top model . If I were a smaller guy this would be my #1 choice hands down.


1- Altima.........most interior room in this group. Not so much the best vehicle.. but my #1 cause of it. Excellent MPG
-
2- Passat/ Fusion ... Fusion only vehicle in this group offering back up camera on base. Both vehicles offer nice ride and handling. Passat was very quiet inside the vehicle. But then again I was not driving a 1.8T engine .

4- Camry...Quiet and softer ride even thou it failed the overlap test (still would not buy) not a bad beater vehicle.

The 2015 Sonata is definitely worth a look in this class. Lot of buyers like the new sonata. I'm sure @stickguy can give us his feedback on his Sonata.

brian125

Here are my list of best midsize in class cars right know 2015. Cant go wrong with any of them probably just a matter of preference / price .

Best Midsize...........................Accord , Passat , Mazda6 , Fusion, Altima

Contenders ............................Malibu, Camry, Sonata, legacy

stickguy

Sonata is definitely roomier than an Altima or Fusion. I would definitely swap it with the Altima on that list. It is probably the best all-around choice (might not blow you away in any aspect, but it is good to very good at everything). and still hard to beat at features/$.

I think a lot of people are still judging based on the prior generation. Having looked at both back to back, I think the 2015 blows the 2014 away overall.

brian125

I was never a fan of the older model sloped look Sonata. But as we both know being Hyundai owners you get a great bang for your buck here. . On my next dealer visit for a oil change for my Genesis I'm going to check out the new Sonata. . Like to test drive one to see how it stacks up to the others.

backy

My local dealer is advertising 2015 Sonatas for $149/month for 36 months, 12k/year, $1550 up front. Works out to about $200 a month. If I were turning in my wife's 2013 Sonata for a new mid-sized sedan now, I'd definitely have to take a good look at one of those. Accords are great but not worth the extra money IMO. Mazda6 doesn't have much in the way of incentives, nor does the Legacy although both are fine cars. The Altima, Malibu, Camry don't turn me on. There's very good deals available on Fusions and Passats so I'd have to consider those if I were shopping for a mid-sizer.

The way Kia keeps improving, the 2016 Optima should be a winner when it debuts in a few weeks.

m6user

Accord LX lease ads from several dealers in the Chicago run from $198 to $215 a month with 0 down. I'd lean toward the Accord for a few dollars more a month. I like the equipment you get with the Accord LX like alloys, big 8" media screen, backup camera and auto climate control. Now that IL(since Jan. 1) only computes sales tax on the total of payments versus total price of car, leasing has finally popped up on my radar. Not saying I will but it's at least a consideration now.

backy

I wish the dealers in the Twin Cities offered deals like that on Accords. I never see 0 down leases on those and after all is said and done it's about $270/month, including down payment, tax (paid up front in MN), title/license. An LX for under $200/month with nothing down is a great deal.

The odd thing about Honda dealers in the Twin Cities is, they NEVER advertise selling prices on cars--just lease rates. It makes me wonder about collusion... but, dealers would never do that, would they?

benjaminh

Honda corporate discourages advertising on price. But big discounts are available when inventories are up, but you have to email the dealers and probably get them to compete with each other for your biz.

My current car, a 2008 Accord EXL bought new, is more than 7 years old and has about 72k miles on it. In another year, I think I'll be in the market, because even though the car probably has a lot of life left in it, I don't want to be playing the whole "replace the car a part at a time" game once my HondaCare warranty wears out. Anyway, I might well be in the market then, and although I can afford a higher end and loaded up midsize car, and maybe even an Acura TLX, I'm considering getting one of these "bargain" base models. There are a lot of features that back in 2008 were only on the high end Accords that are standard on the LX now, like dual zone climate control, bluetooth, alloy wheels, etc. If the Edmunds price tool is right, the trade in value of my 08 might be c. $10k, and then if I can snag a new LX for c. 20k, I'd be out just 10k plus TTL and into a new car. Hmmm. But the Sport model is tempting, as is the EX, and I love navi, and at that point maybe I could try an Acura ILX, even though it's a bit smaller....Decisions, decisions.

m6user

backy, that policy seems to be everywhere for Honda.  When I used to travel a lot I would check car ads in different cities and Honda was always lease prices only.

brian125

Looked at my new CR reports. The 2015 Subaru legacy is there top choice midsizer. The Impreza faired very well to. When I was in the dealership last week I sat in both vehicles. Impreza had a nice interior lay out, good head rm . for a small car. The Legacy was impressive with a nice upscale feel inside with plenty of room . Sharp looking exterior. Subaru's whole line up offers nice quality vehicles.

I did manage to test drive the Outback 3.6R which is on the legacy platform. Very nice all around vehicle . The CVT shifted effortlessly, its 256 hp seemed like a well balance of power, inside the cabin was well isolated. Everything in the Outback felt right and well placed. Its upscale look and layout inside was a surprise . My only knock was a combined 22 mpg's. Visibility is very good in this crossover. Subaru's Eye sight and Cross traffic braking are two top features we all should want in our new vehicles today . If your a family guy this Outback should be on your short list. Nice job................. Subaru

Michaell

brian125 said:

Looked at my new CR reports. The 2015 Subaru legacy is there top choice midsizer. The Impreza faired very well to. When I was in the dealership last week I sat in both vehicles. Impreza had a nice interior lay out, good head rm . for a small car. The Legacy was impressive with a nice upscale feel inside with plenty of room . Sharp looking exterior. Subaru's whole line up offers nice quality vehicles.

I did manage to test drive the Outback 3.6R which is on the legacy platform. Very nice all around vehicle . The CVT shifted effortlessly, its 256 hp seemed like a well balance of power, inside the cabin was well isolated. Everything in the Outback felt right and well placed. Its upscale look and layout inside was a surprise . My only knock was a combined 22 mpg's. Visibility is very good in this crossover. Subaru's Eye sight and Cross traffic braking are two top features we all should want in our new vehicles today . If your a family guy this Outback should be on your short list. Nice job................. Subaru

Thanks for the quick review and affirmation. The wife is loving her new Outback 3.6R that we picked up on Saturday. She calls it a luxury car without the luxury badge.

I'm OK with the mileage; the Mazda we traded in got 17/23 and required premium fuel. The Outback gets 20/27 and uses regular unleaded.

brian125

@michaell,

It sure was a great choice. With gas prices creeping up the extra money saved will be well worth it.

nyccarguy

My Legacy earned its stripes so far this winter, but especially tonight. It started snowing in the late afternoon, then turned to sleet. Lots of cars on the road, people left work early, and the plows didn't have a chance to do their job. Needless to say, the roads were atrocious. My 32 mile commute home took me 2 hours & 23 minutes. Tonight, more than ever, I know I made the right choice buying the Legacy.

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

My Legacy earned its stripes so far this winter, but especially tonight. It started snowing in the late afternoon, then turned to sleet. Lots of cars on the road, people left work early, and the plows didn't have a chance to do their job. Needless to say, the roads were atrocious. My 32 mile commute home took me 2 hours & 23 minutes. Tonight, more than ever, I know I made the right choice buying the Legacy.

Never thought I'd say it- but I am going to take a hard look at the new Golf R. The Brit magazine CAR liked it better than the Audi S3.

brian125

roadburner said:

nyccarguy said:

My Legacy earned its stripes so far this winter, but especially tonight. It started snowing in the late afternoon, then turned to sleet. Lots of cars on the road, people left work early, and the plows didn't have a chance to do their job. Needless to say, the roads were atrocious. My 32 mile commute home took me 2 hours & 23 minutes. Tonight, more than ever, I know I made the right choice buying the Legacy.

Never thought I'd say it- but I am going to take a hard look at the new Golf R. The Brit magazine CAR liked it better than the Audi S3.

The mighty mouse of hatchbacks with a overall 26 mpg combined. A Turbo 296 h/p best in class ride and handling. What's not to like. Worth every penny @‌40k. The S3 is a close match but @ 12k more . Comparing to the A3 tight back seat and no trunk space. I like the golf. For the price the Golf R is a game changer. I want one ...lol.

Get in line for one............................ the demand is high

Does Audi make a hatchback version anymore?

andres3

akirby said:

berri said:

If you stop and think about how many new platforms and new vehicles and new engines/drivetrains Ford has put out the last few years it's no wonder they had some teething problems. If we don't see improvements over the next 2-3 years then I'll get worried. But not yet.

Wow, that's decidedly optimistic. I'm more in the camp of "If Ford can make reliable durable cars for at least 10 to 20 straight years, and certainly for longer than "faking" it for a couple of years," I'd trust their manufacturing more. I feel like the Big 3 have more experience making junk than they do reliable cars... they need to string together a decade or 2 of reliable cars.

andres3

brian125 said:

roadburner said:

nyccarguy said:

My Legacy earned its stripes so far this winter, but especially tonight. It started snowing in the late afternoon, then turned to sleet. Lots of cars on the road, people left work early, and the plows didn't have a chance to do their job. Needless to say, the roads were atrocious. My 32 mile commute home took me 2 hours & 23 minutes. Tonight, more than ever, I know I made the right choice buying the Legacy.

Never thought I'd say it- but I am going to take a hard look at the new Golf R. The Brit magazine CAR liked it better than the Audi S3.

The mighty mouse of hatchbacks with a overall 26 mpg combined. A Turbo 296 h/p best in class ride and handling. What's not to like. Worth every penny @‌40k. The S3 is a close match but @ 12k more . Comparing to the A3 tight back seat and no trunk space. I like the golf. For the price the Golf R is a game changer. I want one ...lol.

Get in line for one............................ the demand is high

Does Audi make a hatchback version anymore?

Nope. The hatchback A3 is the GTI. The hatchback S3 is the Golf R. For less money than the S3, the VW Golf R is probably the best bang for your buck if you don't need a sedan. Remember though, VW doesn't nearly have the quality control or assurance of Audi, and you get a shorter warranty, and no free loaner vehicles.