Midsize Sedans 2.0

andres3

nyccarguy said:

@brian125‌

I've heard some early adopter CVT horror stories. Specifically I know 2 people who had the CVTs replaced in their Jeep Patriot/Compass at 60K, then 120K. I'll bet 90% of the people wouldn't know they aren't driving a conventional automatic. I'm impressed with my Legacy's CVT.

60K is par for the course for transmissions from Chrysler, whether it be CVT, Automatic, or anything else.

tundradweller1_

Rented a Altima while on a recent vacation. No wonder Nissan spends so much money on advertising. Slingshot CVT trans., poor ride, worse handling. Cushy yeah....like a Japanese Buick.

Comparison:
The Big Test: 2014/2015 Midsize Sedans
Chevrolet Malibu vs. Chrysler 200 vs. Honda Accord vs. Kia Optima vs. Mazda6 vs. Nissan Altima
By Rory Jurnecka | Photos By William Walker | From the July 2014 issue of Motor Trend
Again, the Mazda pushed through the group to impress everyone who drove it. With second-best acceleration, a sweet-sounding engine, and lever-actuated manual gear selection, the Mazda proved a favorite. As Kong put it, "The powertrain is the best here, the auto shifts up and down quickly, and the engine never feels like it's wanting for more." Martinez concurred, "The 2.5-liter SkyActiv pulls smoothly and sounds great." The Mazda provided an engaging powertrain, rather than one that just gets the job done. Lieberman summed it up best: "If Americans actually cared about driving, the Mazda6 would be the best-selling car in the U.S."
Winner : the Mazda6. When we asked ourselves which vehicle we'd purchase with our own money, we unanimously voted for the Mazda. Its combination of good looks, strong fuel economy, excellent road manners, roomy rear seat, and engaging powertrain give the Mazda the one element that all its competitors seem to lack: a real personality. In a beige-and-taupe segment, the Mazda adds a big splash of red. And that's something we wish more automakers would achieve.
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1405_2014_2015_midsize_sedans_the_big_test/winner.html#ixzz3QRlTpEMs


Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/oneyear/sedans/1408_2014_mazda6_i_touring_verdict/specs.html#ixzz3TS2IGsx9

roadburner

Mazda definitely knows how to build a sweet driving car for a relatively low price. The only car that comes even close to the Mazda6 is the Accord Sport. I love my 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 and I continue to hope that Mazdaspeed versions of the 6 and 3 are forthcoming.

brian125

Most reviews will tell you the mazda6 is the next coming of Christ. 6 sales and the family buyers tell a different story here. Mazda6 cant compete in this segment with the mighty Camry and Accords labeled as family cars.

Chevy, Kia, Hyundai, Ford also hurt Mazda sales with there deep discounts. The Chrysler 200 is almost tripling mazda6 sales every month.



I like the mazda6 but like most in here passed on buying one. Mazda6 Handles great , No upgrade motor, to much road noise, smaller cabin and back seat than Accord and others. Maybe its more the design inside the 6. Upgrade models have no Zoom Zoom for the money . I test drove it last year and the negatives outweigh the positives. There is a reason why Mazda barley sells 5k units a month.

If Mazda wanted to make money on there mazda6 they should strip the family sedan label and go after the entry level sports sedan buyer. Family buyers show little interest in this vehicle.

I like what Buick did with there Regal.

akirby

Fusion has been in production since 2005 with long term reliability on par with Camry and Accord. There were launch problems with the 2013s due to the changeover to a European platform and suppliers but those were short term problems that won't reoccur once fixed under warranty. They had a few hiccups like the PTUs on AWD vehicles but most problems are simple bad parts or engineering problems that get corrected.

Virtually all engines from all mfrs now easily last 150K and longer and you just don't get the rattles after a few years like you used to. Even the worst vehicles are pretty solid now.

brian125

With the new look and bigger 2015 Sonata . CR naming 2015 legacy top choice midsize it will be fun seeing these companies duke it out for a modest share of the pie with Camry and Accord fighting for the top sales spot.

benjaminh

My local Mazda dealer has a Mazda6 base sport for sale for pretty amazing price of $19,136, which is $2800 off of msrp:

http://oxmoormazda.com/New-2015-Mazda-Mazda6-i-Sport-Louisville-KY/vd/23679751

It's a lot of car for the money. Probably the least expensive Honda Accord LX 6 MT would cost about $500 or so more. The Mazda 6 a very nice car, and the automotive press certainly likes it, but I think the Accord is a better car.

The Mazda6 is supposed to be sporty, but even with the manual transmission it gets to 60 in a rather unimpressive 7.9 seconds by C & D's test. As they say:

"Hitched up to the six-speed manual, the 2.5 drives the 6 to 60 mph in 7.9 seconds. A four-cylinder Accord manual does it in 6.6 seconds in second gear, whereas the Mazda requires two upshifts. By the quarter-mile, the 6 is a second behind the Accord. In short, the Skyactiv isn’t very active, and it won’t win you many drag races, even against other family sedans."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-mazda-6-i-sport-test-review-the-gearbox-of-an-rx-8-page-2

6.6 seconds is class leading when it comes to base family sedans. The Mazda6 is one of the slowest iirc. More than a second faster in acceleration is worth $500 to me right there, but the Accord offers a lot more standard that the 6 doesn't have, like:

alloy wheels
dual zone climate control
back up camera
1 cubic foot larger trunk
3 cubic feet more interior room (mostly in the back seat)
better visibility

The Mazda does have slightly larger tires, and is rated 2 mpg higher by the epa for the manual.

But overall I think the Accord is the better car. The Mazda 6 is very good, but....

explorerx4

Regarding the Accord going 0-60 in 6.6 seconds, we've been over this before, the brakes had to be serviced every 10k and the clutch replaced at 30k.
I'd like to report something about my Fusion, but I've only driven it 126 miles since Feb 1.
I did use it to jump start another car. It was a pain because the negative battery terminal is buried under the firewall cowl.

brian125

To bad Honda wont make the Sport model in Manuel Trans. 3 pedals on the floor. I guess they feel there is no market for it.

benjaminh

?
Brian: I assume you're joking. They do make a Sport model with a manual, as you probably know. There's one stocked at my local dealer:

http://samswopehondaworld.com/New-2015-Honda-Accord-Sport-Louisville-KY/vd/23535663

Nice looking, and starts at $22.8 before you even start negotiating.

explorerx4: C & D certainly thrashed their Accord and wore out the clutch. But still, the Accord manual beats the Mazda6 manual but a big margin in the 0-60. Some people say that's not relevant, but I go 0-60 almost everyday on an uphill freeway ramp with a very short merge distance. 0-60 is quite relevant to me and to many people who do freeway merging.

brian125

I was not........................ I did not realize or forgot.. lol

explorerx4

@benjaminh,
Load on of these apps on your smart phone and let us know what your 0-60 time is.

iPhone:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/30/automobiles/autospecial2/30phone.html?_r=0

Android:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.autotest.acceleration

benjaminh

No thanks. I don't want to thrash my car that way.

stevedebi

brian125 said:

... The CVT shifted effortlessly, ...

Do they emulate a normal shift? A CVT has no gears to shift.

explorerx4

@benjaminh, That's the only way to get that number from the car.
Personal experience, no Accord has ever beaten my Fusion from a stop light.
On my work commute, there are a few places that merge from 2 to 1.
I always take the lane that does not have to merge over to the left.

sda

benjaminh said:

?
Brian: I assume you're joking. They do make a Sport model with a manual, as you probably know. There's one stocked at my local dealer:

http://samswopehondaworld.com/New-2015-Honda-Accord-Sport-Louisville-KY/vd/23535663

Nice looking, and starts at $22.8 before you even start negotiating.

explorerx4: C & D certainly thrashed their Accord and wore out the clutch. But still, the Accord manual beats the Mazda6 manual but a big margin in the 0-60. Some people say that's not relevant, but I go 0-60 almost everyday on an uphill freeway ramp with a very short merge distance. 0-60 is quite relevant to me and to many people who do freeway merging.

That has to be a fluke, Honda clutches are typically long lasting, typically 100k miles plus.

benjaminh

I'm sure your Fusion 2.0 is very fast.

Where we'll need to agree to disagree, I think, is that I still believe car magazines can have useful measurements for comparison.

I don't own a manual version of the current generation of Accord. My Accord is a 2008 EXL navi 5 MT. I think this manual was measured as having a 0-60 time of about 8 seconds. Since I shift out of 2nd well before 60 my time is probably 8.5 or more, even when I'm being aggressive.

Our 2013 Accord EXL navi has the CVT, and it seems significantly faster. I'd guess when we floor it we go 0-60 in slightly less than 8 seconds.

The V-6 Accord is seriously quick. You might be able to beat one of a drag race. I don't know. But C & D and other magazines seems to show that it's a bit faster than the 2.0 Fusion. Both are quite fast, however, and in a sense they are both winners when it comes to speed and power.

We are each fans of our respective cars, which is understandable and fine. They are both toward the top of most magazine rankings as well. We both get beat out regularly by the Mazda 6, however, and I honestly disagree about that.

Forget the speed issue for now, the standard equipment on the Accord is just more complete than what is offered on the 6 imho. But the Mazda 6 is also a very good car. I've owned 2 Mazdas in my life and I liked them both quite a bit.

tundradweller1_

Buick Regal? Why not just drive a Century and completely give up on driving? You couldn't give me a GM right now and I was a GM guy for decades.
I love when people buy a car because "they sell allot of them". There's millions of sheep trundling around in Corollas but that doesn't make them a better car. Yeah Mazda made the 6 look sporty, far more so than the stoic 1989 styled Passat, and it is a hoot to drive. But lets face it this IS a mid-sized sedan forum.

brian125

GM's Buick line ranked # 2 in brand Reliability... Lexus is # 1. Check out article / list of 2015 Auto's reliability . You may be surprised . GM will someday get it right... until then most GM cars are only worth leasing 2 or 3 years then dumping them off. Caddy seems to be a big improvement also. Alot of positive feedback in these forums with the caddy line.

Millions of sheep buy a Toyota or Honda cause they are very reliable and have great resale value year after year. These cars very well may be uninspiring to drive but for those folks who want that thrill there are other choices.

I agree with you the Mazda6 is fun to drive but zoomless. 170 hp needs a Turbo engine

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/02/25/jd-power-vds-reliability/23982237/

brian125

stevedebi

let me rephrase . As we both know

There are no set gears in a cvt trans.Unlike a conventional automatic, . Instead, they have an infinite number of ratios..... as a belt or chain changes positions on pulleys based on engine speed.

The two variable-diameter pulleys, guide the CVT Trans effortlessly. Sounds better

Many complaints about the CVT. The one major downside is that a CVT gearbox can make the car very noisy under acceleration, the sound of the engine stays at a constant pitch, rather than rising and falling as it would with a more conventional gearbox. Another problem is CVT's are herky jerky at low speeds.

Subaru has a software update for earlier models from what I've been told that helped this problem somewhat. Another factor might be the CVT trying to learn your driving habbits. Some CVT's work better than others. Honda CVT are excellent compared to others. Honda's CRV model has a vibration problem that needs attention.

Nissan notified owners that they should have a dealer reprogram the transmission control module to eliminate belt slippage that could accelerate wear. The reprogramming was done at no charge to owners

A lot of the new Toyota Corolla's have the new belt and pulley CVT trans in them. Not sure if its made by Jatco. Have not heard many complaints with this Toyota CVT yet

Audi, Honda, Hyundai, Subaru, and Toyota all make their own CVTs. Nissan owns a controlling interest in JATCO, the firm that supplies 49 percent of the world’s gear-free transmissions to Chrysler, GM, Mi­tsu­bishi, and Suzuki. In addition, nearly half of Nissan’s current U.S. models offer a JATCO-supplied CVT.

Time will tell if these CVT trans can hold up.....especially when paired with engines with higher horsepower .

tundradweller1_

The issue with GM is when a model is flawed, like the Impala's with no rear camber adjustment or the now infamous ignition switch, they ignore it. Leaving the consumer with a sketchy vehicle.
Stats aside the Toyotas are possibly the most recalled brand out there. Sure they all have faults, I've had my 6 in for a couple corrections, but warranties are useless if they won't honor claims.

ab348

tundradweller1_ said:

The issue with GM is when a model is flawed, like the Impala's with no rear camber adjustment or the now infamous ignition switch, they ignore it. Leaving the consumer with a sketchy vehicle.
Stats aside the Toyotas are possibly the most recalled brand out there. Sure they all have faults, I've had my 6 in for a couple corrections, but warranties are useless if they won't honor claims.

They certainly are not ignoring the ignition switches now. It is a very different company from the one you seem to think you know all about. Educate yourself.

ab348

tundradweller1_ said:

Buick Regal? Why not just drive a Century and completely give up on driving? You couldn't give me a GM right now and I was a GM guy for decades.

Clearly you seem to have closed your mind to the idea that the GM you had whatever experience with can and has changed. As a former new-gen Regal owner I can attest that the difference between it and a Century of 15 years ago is astounding. They are not even remotely the same kind of car. I think you need to either educate yourself or stop posting, because in all honestly, you come across like an ignoramus.

roadburner

ab348 said:

tundradweller1_ said:

Buick Regal? Why not just drive a Century and completely give up on driving? You couldn't give me a GM right now and I was a GM guy for decades.

Clearly you seem to have closed your mind to the idea that the GM you had whatever experience with can and has changed. As a former new-gen Regal owner I can attest that the difference between it and a Century of 15 years ago is astounding. They are not even remotely the same kind of car. I think you need to either educate yourself or stop posting, because in all honestly, you come across like an ignoramus.

I'd have to agree, the Regal GS is a really nice car. I'm no fan of FWD in anything larger than a Civic/Mazda3, but if I was looking for a midsize FWD sedan the GS would be one of the finalists.

otis12

Welburn couldn't design a proper square, let alone a car! The Malibu is beyond bland and from the looks of the 2016 revamp, the new Malibu will continue to be the Velveeta of midsize cars.

nyccarguy

@roadburner‌

you do know the Regal can be optioned with AWD

mtnman1

I am considering trading in my 2009 Fusion SEL V6 for either a 2015 Camry XSE 2.5 or a 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Limited. I love all the things about the Legacy just looking at it and the overall reviews, but I am concerned that the engine was the slowest of all the Mid-Sized Family sedans for 0 - 60 in the latest CR. If memory serves me right it was close to 2 seconds slower than the Camry.We travel frequently to Pittsburgh from Columbus Ohio to visit both our families. There is some very steep terrain and I was wondering how acceleration might effect climbing that terrain with possibly 3 to 4 adults in the vehicle. I don't want the V6 (really I would prefer) because I want the better fuel mileage. I have not driven either vehicle but have an appointment to test drive the subaru next Tuesday afternoon. I have gotten quoted great prices for both vehicles. Below what CR Car Buying service included in my subsription for ConsumerReports.org says is a great price for the Subaru. $500 below what CR says is a great price and about $800 below TrueCar.com. I got a quote from a Toyota Dealership for the Camry that was $3900 off the MSRP of $30,600 which included a $500 rebate and 0% financing. Subaru is offering 1.49% financing. Is there anyone out there that has driven or currently own the 2015 for either car that can give me their thoughts on the cars?

nyccarguy

mtnman1 said:

I am considering trading in my 2009 Fusion SEL V6 for either a 2015 Camry XSE 2.5 or a 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Limited. I love all the things about the Legacy just looking at it and the overall reviews, but I am concerned that the engine was the slowest of all the Mid-Sized Family sedans for 0 - 60 in the latest CR. If memory serves me right it was close to 2 seconds slower than the Camry.We travel frequently to Pittsburgh from Columbus Ohio to visit both our families. There is some very steep terrain and I was wondering how acceleration might effect climbing that terrain with possibly 3 to 4 adults in the vehicle. I don't want the V6 (really I would prefer) because I want the better fuel mileage. I have not driven either vehicle but have an appointment to test drive the subaru next Tuesday afternoon. I have gotten quoted great prices for both vehicles. Below what CR Car Buying service included in my subsription for ConsumerReports.org says is a great price for the Subaru. $500 below what CR says is a great price and about $800 below TrueCar.com. I got a quote from a Toyota Dealership for the Camry that was $3900 off the MSRP of $30,600 which included a $500 rebate and 0% financing. Subaru is offering 1.49% financing. Is there anyone out there that has driven or currently own the 2015 for either car that can give me their thoughts on the cars?

You have picked the right place to come. Don't be put off by the Legacy's slower than average 0-60 mph times. Before I bought my 2015 Leagcy 2.5i, I leased a 2011 BMW 328xi. The Legacy is no rocket by any means, but has no trouble getting up to or maintaining speed. The CVT transmission is very responsive. Just stab the gas pedal and go. You just can't be afraid to put your foot to the floor. It is a great car. I'm really happy with it. Very well screwed together. It rides smooth on the highway. It is a good thing you "don't want the V6" because Subaru doesn't offer one. It is actually an H6.

You won't find gigantic discounts and massive rebates at your local Subaru dealer. There is a lot of value packed into a Legacy. The AWD system is truly magnificent. You really have to drive the car to appreciate how well it performs in less than ideal conditions.

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

@roadburner‌

you do know the Regal can be optioned with AWD

Yes, but not with a manual...

stevedebi

brian125 said:

stevedebi

let me rephrase . As we both know

There are no set gears in a cvt trans.Unlike a conventional automatic, . Instead, they have an infinite number of ratios..... as a belt or chain changes positions on pulleys based on engine speed.

The two variable-diameter pulleys, guide the CVT Trans effortlessly. Sounds better

Many complaints about the CVT. The one major downside is that a CVT gearbox can make the car very noisy under acceleration, the sound of the engine stays at a constant pitch, rather than rising and falling as it would with a more conventional gearbox. Another problem is CVT's are herky jerky at low speeds.

Subaru has a software update for earlier models from what I've been told that helped this problem somewhat. Another factor might be the CVT trying to learn your driving habbits. Some CVT's work better than others. Honda CVT are excellent compared to others. Honda's CRV model has a vibration problem that needs attention.

Nissan notified owners that they should have a dealer reprogram the transmission control module to eliminate belt slippage that could accelerate wear. The reprogramming was done at no charge to owners

A lot of the new Toyota Corolla's have the new belt and pulley CVT trans in them. Not sure if its made by Jatco. Have not heard many complaints with this Toyota CVT yet

Audi, Honda, Hyundai, Subaru, and Toyota all make their own CVTs. Nissan owns a controlling interest in JATCO, the firm that supplies 49 percent of the world’s gear-free transmissions to Chrysler, GM, Mi­tsu­bishi, and Suzuki. In addition, nearly half of Nissan’s current U.S. models offer a JATCO-supplied CVT.

Time will tell if these CVT trans can hold up.....especially when paired with engines with higher horsepower .

My post started out as a joke but then turned serious. I believe some manufacturers are setting their CVT to actually perform as if they are switching gears; it can be done with programming. I was curious if that was the case here. It sounds like they are using a normal CVT.

I had a CVT in my 2006 Freestyle. That one had a steel belt in the transmission. A few people had trouble with it, but I never did. My other rides since then have been hybrids, with their special transmission (continuous, but without a pulley), an Escape Hybrid and a C-Max Energi.

explorerx4

Mid size sedans are like all season tires, lots of compromises, but work well for most people.
I bought my Fusion because I really liked how it looks, outside and inside. It has plenty of power, gets good fuel mileage, lots of features.
Being a first year design, it has had it's share of recalls,.
It's inexpensive to maintain, other than the tires, which will cost me a bunch to replace.
I've saved up the money for the tires. They should go another 2 years based on their expected life and how much I drive the car.

tundradweller1_

Yeah, sorry I did come across as a bit of a Troll
Honestly when I switched from GM to Ford the reliability increased by a great margin. Not sure if I could go back regardless of how much GM has changed.

mtnman1

You have picked the right place to come. Don't be put off by the Legacy's slower than average 0-60 mph times. Before I bought my 2015 Leagcy 2.5i, I leased a 2011 BMW 328xi. The Legacy is no rocket by any means, but has no trouble getting up to or maintaining speed. The CVT transmission is very responsive. Just stab the gas pedal and go. You just can't be afraid to put your foot to the floor. It is a great car. I'm really happy with it. Very well screwed together. It rides smooth on the highway. It is a good thing you "don't want the V6" because Subaru doesn't offer one. It is actually an H6.

You won't find gigantic discounts and massive rebates at your local Subaru dealer. There is a lot of value packed into a Legacy. The AWD system is truly magnificent. You really have to drive the car to appreciate how well it performs in less than ideal conditions.

Hey thanks for the reply. I actually felt the price I was quoted was much better than I expected. It was at invoice and being that there are only 3 Subaru Dealerships in the Columbus, Ohio area and two of those are owned by the same company, I was very surprised. The Legacy Limited comes very well equipped. The two I am interested in have the package with the Nav, Moonroof, push button start, BSD and auto dimming mirrors. Plus comes with Homelink and a bunch of other great features. I could get a similarly equipped Camry for about $2000 less, but the reviews from CR really woke me up to the Legacy. So the next day I stopped in a dealership and walked the lot. Just from the standpoint of appearance the Legacy was better to me. The only problem now is my Wife told me last night when we were coming home after we had been out for dinner that she didn't want me to go for the test drive. She knows that I am like a runaway train when the new car bug bites me. Said we are going to have our 3 year old Highlander paid off in May and she was hoping we might go awhile without a car payment. I am still going to slip over there because I will be working in the area that day and I can't resist. Maybe there is some kind of vaccine I can get to prevent this in the future.

suydam

Would you be replacing the Fusion or the Highlander? If the Fusion, the wealth of safety features in just the last year or so is pretty compelling. I hear ya about not wanting 2 car payments though.

explorerx4

Although I like my recently acquired Escape, drive my Fusion today. It's so smooth, really enjoyed it.

mtnman1

suydam said:

Would you be replacing the Fusion or the Highlander? If the Fusion, the wealth of safety features in just the last year or so is pretty compelling. I hear ya about not wanting 2 car payments though.

No way I would trade my Highlander. That vehicle is so nice and it is continually rated the top Mid-Sized SUV. Plus the Boss, my Wife, drives it 98% of the time and she wants to keep it another 5 to 6 years. My current Fusion has been a great trouble free vehicle. It has all the options that were available with the exception of AWD back when I bought it. Great riding car with superb handling. It has the Audiophile option which is one of the best factory Audio systems I have ever heard in my 59 years. I would say there is at least a 50% chance I will drive it one more year. My problem is I get bored with cars and the fusion I have is looking a bit dated since there have been two re-designs, one minor and one major, since I bought it. Leasing has been suggested, but I drive about 15,000 miles per year in my current position in my company. The new Fusion is still and option, but I am a bit tired of Fords since we have owned a 2004 Mercury Mountaineer (best car I have ever owned) and the Fusion. Anyway, I am looking for reviews from anyone that drives or has taken a test drive for the Legacy or Camry. Preferably the 2015 versions. I haven't been reading the Forums much at all the last couple of years, but what happened to Backy? I used to see his reviews for many vehicles on the Edmunds Forums.

stickguy

the Legacy is a great car. comfortable, drives nice. AWD. good MPG. If he wanders by, NYCCARGUY bought one a few months back and loves it (and it replaced a 328 BMW). Not the fastest mid size car, but more than adequate for normal use. And if you really feel a "need for speed" you can get the 6 cyl.

The Camry? Nice enough, but still an unengaging couch to drive.

also, you definitely can do a lease with 15K/year. Costs a little more, but if you really are trading by the 3 year mark anyway, could easily be more cost effective, since often the miles in the lease are cheaper than the hit you take for trading in a high mileage car.

Edit: Just noticed your Fusion is the V6. so yeah, you would notice the change in power in the 4 cyl Legacy (or Camry). Up to you if it matters, but you can get a 6 in either model.

nyccarguy

@stickguy‌

Done. See my post above from 3/5 you know I'll take any chance I get to get someone behind the wheel of a Subaru!

jpp75

nyccarguy said:

@stickguy‌

Done. See my post above from 3/5 you know I'll take any chance I get to get someone behind the wheel of a Subaru!

You're really making me want to go drive one.

mtnman1

stickguy said:

the Legacy is a great car. comfortable, drives nice. AWD. good MPG. If he wanders by, NYCCARGUY bought one a few months back and loves it (and it replaced a 328 BMW). Not the fastest mid size car, but more than adequate for normal use. And if you really feel a "need for speed" you can get the 6 cyl.

The Camry? Nice enough, but still an unengaging couch to drive.

also, you definitely can do a lease with 15K/year. Costs a little more, but if you really are trading by the 3 year mark anyway, could easily be more cost effective, since often the miles in the lease are cheaper than the hit you take for trading in a high mileage car.

Edit: Just noticed your Fusion is the V6. so yeah, you would notice the change in power in the 4 cyl Legacy (or Camry). Up to you if it matters, but you can get a 6 in either model.

Thanks for the post. I think the new Camry is pretty sharp too, but until I actually drive both I can't judge either. I will probably test drive the new Ford Fusion and possibly the Chevy Malibu as well to find out how their Turbo engines perform. That is unless the Subaru blows me away next Tuesday when I go to test drive one. I read NYCCARGUY's post and it's helpful. I really want to avoid a 6 cylinder if I can because I want the extra fuel mileage. I have never owned a vehicle in my 59 years that wasn't a 6 or 8 cylinder. I am sure it would take some getting used to and I would have to lower my expectations for performance. Like I mentioned to NYCCARGUY I am concerned the 4 bangers can easily handle the steep terrain out in eastern Ohio and western Pa. We travel there a lot because both our Mothers and a couple brothers and two sisters and many nieces and nephews live in the Pittsburgh area. When we go we sometimes take my youngest Son when he is home from College visiting us. And other times we will go get our mothers and bring them back to Columbus to spend time at our house. Of course, we have our Highlander which is more roomy and has a 272Hp V6, but gets 22mpg on the Highway on a good day. Or even if we use the car to travel to S.C. for our summer vacation. The mountains of W.VA. or Virginia would really be a tough job for an engine like that I would think. Unfortunately Columbus is very flat and there aren't alot of steep hills to test one on.

suydam

My Honda Accord 4 cyl. Handles those areas with ease. The Penn turnpike too to Philly. I'm sure Camry would too. And my Honda gets at least 36 mpg doing it, as do most midsize 4 cyls these days.

m6user

You should rent a 4 cyl. and take it on one of your trips. I use to rent cars to visit my Dad in Texas from Chicago and, through Costco, it wasn't much more than driving my own 6cyl vehicle down and back. Maybe cost a $75 to $100 bucks over and above what it would have cost me to drive my own and the miles didn't climb on my vehicle as a result either. It's a cheap way to find out if you can live with a 4cyl. and if it's a car of the type you are looking at anyway it's a heck of nice long test drive. Just a thought.

Michaell

mtnman1 said:

stickguy said:

the Legacy is a great car. comfortable, drives nice. AWD. good MPG. If he wanders by, NYCCARGUY bought one a few months back and loves it (and it replaced a 328 BMW). Not the fastest mid size car, but more than adequate for normal use. And if you really feel a "need for speed" you can get the 6 cyl.

The Camry? Nice enough, but still an unengaging couch to drive.

also, you definitely can do a lease with 15K/year. Costs a little more, but if you really are trading by the 3 year mark anyway, could easily be more cost effective, since often the miles in the lease are cheaper than the hit you take for trading in a high mileage car.

Edit: Just noticed your Fusion is the V6. so yeah, you would notice the change in power in the 4 cyl Legacy (or Camry). Up to you if it matters, but you can get a 6 in either model.

Thanks for the post. I think the new Camry is pretty sharp too, but until I actually drive both I can't judge either. I will probably test drive the new Ford Fusion and possibly the Chevy Malibu as well to find out how their Turbo engines perform. That is unless the Subaru blows me away next Tuesday when I go to test drive one. I read NYCCARGUY's post and it's helpful. I really want to avoid a 6 cylinder if I can because I want the extra fuel mileage. I have never owned a vehicle in my 59 years that wasn't a 6 or 8 cylinder. I am sure it would take some getting used to and I would have to lower my expectations for performance. Like I mentioned to NYCCARGUY I am concerned the 4 bangers can easily handle the steep terrain out in eastern Ohio and western Pa. We travel there a lot because both our Mothers and a couple brothers and two sisters and many nieces and nephews live in the Pittsburgh area. When we go we sometimes take my youngest Son when he is home from College visiting us. And other times we will go get our mothers and bring them back to Columbus to spend time at our house. Of course, we have our Highlander which is more roomy and has a 272Hp V6, but gets 22mpg on the Highway on a good day. Or even if we use the car to travel to S.C. for our summer vacation. The mountains of W.VA. or Virginia would really be a tough job for an engine like that I would think. Unfortunately Columbus is very flat and there aren't alot of steep hills to test one on.

A quick point of reference. We just took our 3.6R Outback on a quick road trip ... about 100 miles round trip that included a 7300' pass. Averaged 27 MPG, which is bang on the highway rating for this car. Granted, it's not the low to mid 30's MPG you'd see with the 2.5i, but still pretty decent for a car with 256 HP and 3 grown adults.

jpp75

Michaell said:

A quick point of reference. We just took our 3.6R Outback on a quick road trip ... about 100 miles round trip that included a 7300' pass. Averaged 27 MPG, which is bang on the highway rating for this car. Granted, it's not the low to mid 30's MPG you'd see with the 2.5i, but still pretty decent for a car with 256 HP and 3 grown adults.

That is great, I would imagine the mileage will also improve slightly after a little more break in. Over the course of a year it will cost you $300 - $400 more to drive the H6 (assuming 15,000 miles per year and gas between 2.80 and 3.80), so if you can swing the extra $30 - $40/month and prefer the power it's probably worth it. Plus for you being able to buy regular now vs. premium probably evens out any premium (no pun intended) you pay for the decreased mileage.

thebean

2,000 mile report on my 2015 Accord EX:
Background - I was considering a 2014.5 Camry, a 2015 Outback, a 2015 RDX, and the 2015 Accord EX (all 4 bangers except for the RDX) to replace a 2002 Civic EX. Ultimately I went with the Accord (bought in December) after much anguish and research (most of it on Edmunds boards - thanks to all that responded to my questions back in the summer). My final two were the RDX and Accord, and the Accord features and gas mileage won me over. The Accord just passed the 2K mileage mark, and has been much as I expected it would be. Mileage has been a solid 30 mpg, with a 65/35 highway/city driving ratio. I was impressed with the LaneWatch feature, and it has not disappointed - it will be a must-have on cars for me in the future. I use the backup camera much more than I thought I would. I didn't get leather because I am not hard on interiors (my Civic cloth interior still looked great) and I am happy with that choice. The EX cloth is much more attractive than the LX cloth, I thought. The EX rode better than the LX on my test drives which is probably a function of the larger tires. No rattles in the car so far, which is impressive considering the amount of rough roads I have had to subject it to.

The 4 banger, while a little bit buzzy (not a surprise), provides all of the power I need. I am impressed with the acceleration, especially in the 30 to 60 mph range needed to merge onto the highway. I was very wary of the CVT (hate driving a manual in Dallas rush hour traffic), but so far it has been a non-issue. No vibration of any sort that I can feel, and I forget that it's not a conventional automatic trannie. The Accord does not have the smoothest ride (which, of the cars I drove, was the Camry), but it does have good handling in the curves and is pretty confidence inspiring. I suspect the handling will get better when I replace the Goodyear tires with Michelin or Pirelli tires. Recently, we had snow and ice here in Dallas, and the Accord acquitted itself superbly. No issues at all sliding or fishtailing in the snow and slush. It just pulled through with no drama. The only issue was avoiding several Mercedes drivers who were sliding all over the road after they tried to accelerate like they were on a dry road.

The one area I am a bit disappointed in are the front seats. They are not as wide as either the seats on my Civic or my wife's Lexus ES300. I have to maneuver around a bit to get the seat belt fastened, and I do not have a big butt. I am somewhat large - 6', 225 lbs, and these seats are about an inch too narrow for me. Not a huge deal, and something that I didn't even notice on my test drives. The seats are comfortable enough for me so far (except for the width), and I will get to put them to the test with two long driving vacations this year. The trunk is bigger than the Lexus trunk, and it should have no problem swallowing enough luggage for a 3 week trip.

Overall, I am very happy with my choice and if I had to do it again, I would make the same choice. I loved the Outback, but with it being a new design (I do not buy cars in their first year of production after introduction or restyle) I was very wary of quality issues. Plus, I am not convinced they have fixed their head gasket issues on their boxer 4's. The RDX would have been my first SUV, and if it had a LaneWatch feature, I might be driving it today, even with the anecdotal stories about the VCM vibrations and the lower gas mileage. I value reliability above all in a car, so that influenced my choice of the Accord over all the others. I hope to drive it for 10-15 years.

brian125

Bean

Congrats on the Accord . I shut my lane watch off the 2nd day driving it . To much noise going on in the car especially with city driving. I have to say the right side mirror camera is a homerun.... Nice feature. All cars should have it. I'm also a big guy 6'2, 245 and I found the leather seat in the Honda on long trips to be bothersome by the seat belt where it buckled. The contoured seat is the problem. The seat will get better as you break it in more. My Exl V-6 Accord came with Michelins and handled fine.

My only other complaint which is minor I don't like where Honda put its parking brake . Right in the middle of the consult. Bad job Honda. What where you thinking??? The Nissan Altima got it right.

click on interior pictures to see

http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/altima/2015/?sub=&ps=

benjaminh

" I was impressed with the LaneWatch feature, and it has not disappointed - it will be a must-have on cars for me in the future."

Then it's likely you'll be buying Hondas from now on, because as far as I know this is an exclusive feature so far only found on Hondas.

brian125

My above post was for the Lane departure warning system. Or noisy bells as I call it. Not lane watch.

I'm sure there will be other Car companies trying to duplicate Honda's side camera viewer soon.

explorerx4

Pulling out of my parking space at work, I saw a Fusion with an exhaust finisher that had a soft sided trapezoid shape. Turns out it was a new Sonata.

akirby

brian125 said:

I'm sure there will be other Car companies trying to duplicate Honda's side camera viewer soon.

Not likely. A simple light in the side view mirror is easier and cheaper, like Ford's BLIS.