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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,433
    Good luck trading in your hooptie to the Internet. And test driving. And warranty service!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    edited October 2015
    stickguy said:

    Good luck trading in your hooptie to the Internet. And test driving. And warranty service!

    Advantages outweigh the disadvantages. There will always be the dealerships to service the cars minus the new car showrooms.
    Last I heard, every dealer makes more profits from the service center rather then the new car sales.
    Warranty is from manufacturer whose service centers will honor the warranty
    Don't call them dealerships, just call them service centers under the New World Order :smile:
    And the dealers will have to invest less capital to stock up cars and fill up their lots with unsold inventory. All cars will be delivered from giant distribution centers like Amazon warehouses . No investments in brightly lit showrooms :)

    This topic has been rehashed umpteen times on the blogs but the Dealer mafia is toooo powerful to bring the change.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    robr2 said:


    For the 99.97% of the public that doesn't track their cars, the extra 40 lbs. on the roof isn't going to make a bit of difference. For those .03% that due, take it as an opportunity to become a better driver.
    .

    More like 65 pounds or more- and it's a bit difficult for a driver to compensate for a higher CG. For me it's no biggie; if a manufacturer won't build a car the way I want it built, I'll look elsewhere. That's one of the reasons I went with an MS3 over a GTI.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    stickguy said:

    Posh, I had a 10 speed in 1973.

    A Raleigh record.

    I have a 1973 Raleigh Grand Prix that I bought new- and still ride almost daily. Last year I had it restored, replacing the original rear derailleur with a SunTour GT and also installing a cotterless crank.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It's actually ILLEGAL for manufacturers to sell directly to the public in almost all states. State franchise laws were enacted 50 years ago to "protect" the poor dealers from the evil mfrs. This also means mfrs have virtually no control over bad dealers unless they're doing something illegal.

    I think the main reason for import brands not allowing as many options dates back to when all their vehicles were imported - much easier to manage 3 or 4 versions than dozens of combinations of options.
  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676
    You pick and choose what you like. I wanted a sunroof and I like the CVT on my Accord EX-L. I did not want huge tires; the 17 inchers are fine. I have 18" tires on the Encore. However they seem to fit the vehicle well. Hope they last a long time!
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    akirby said:
    It's actually ILLEGAL for manufacturers to sell directly to the public in almost all states. State franchise laws were enacted 50 years ago to "protect" the poor dealers from the evil mfrs. This also means mfrs have virtually no control over bad dealers unless they're doing something illegal. I think the main reason for import brands not allowing as many options dates back to when all their vehicles were imported - much easier to manage 3 or 4 versions than dozens of combinations of options.
    Laws will have to be changed but the dealer lobby in DC will pay off the congressmen. 
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    suydam said:
    You pick and choose what you like. I wanted a sunroof and I like the CVT on my Accord EX-L. I did not want huge tires; the 17 inchers are fine. I have 18" tires on the Encore. However they seem to fit the vehicle well. Hope they last a long time!
    Thats why we don't need dealers who force us into options we dont want or we have to order from them and pay more and wait weeks  for delivery
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    Low profile tires look funny on compct and mid size cars  and all higher trims force you to buy them . They cost a third more when its time to replace them plus more wheel damage when hitting curb and potholes ., and they are harsh on the suspension and give a hard ride .
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    I want my moon roof, 19 inch wheels, and 240 hp turbo 4 and a car that looks good.
    That's why I bought my Fusion.
    My fuel mileage is going to be down this tank, more than I expected. Maybe we are using winter blend now.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676
    Well there are a lot of choices in terms of midsize sedan. The one thing harder and harder to find is MT but there's very few people who want it. 
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    'Mid size' cars have gotten pretty big, so I'd prefer a stick in something like a Civic, Elantra, or Focus.
    I will admit, I had an F150 with a v8 and a manual 4 speed that I loved.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312

    'Mid size' cars have gotten pretty big, so I'd prefer a stick in something like a Civic, Elantra, or Focus.
    I will admit, I had an F150 with a v8 and a manual 4 speed that I loved.

    I'm really attracted to the current STI because it does have a stick and it is also relatively compact. I only wish that it was truly fast right out of the box, but you can't have everything.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited October 2015
    carboy21 said:

    My 2015 Hyundai Elantra gives me 42 mpg on highway driveing without CVT . It is 5AT.

    It's actually a 6AT. Elantra hasn't had a 5AT since... uh... never! :)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    m6user said:

    I rented a 2015 Elantra and drove round trip from Chicago area to Dallas area.  Virtually no local driving as we drove around in my dad's Buick while there for a week.  R/T mpg was 37.5.  Set cruise at about 5 over and no construction delays of any mention.  Don't know how I would have had to drive to get 42!  Only me in car and one small suitcase.

    To get 42 mpg in the Elantra you would have needed to keep it under 70 mph... if you were going 5 over between Chicago and Dallas, I'll bet you were over 70 most of the time. I've found that the sweet spot for mpg for most cars is between 50-65 mph, over that the mpg drops off precipitously. I used to get 40+ mpg in my wife's Sonata on drives under 70 mph, if no headwind. And I've gotten over 40 mpg on rental Elantras... but not at 70+ mph.
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    edited October 2015
    backy said:

    m6user said:

    I rented a 2015 Elantra and drove round trip from Chicago area to Dallas area.  Virtually no local driving as we drove around in my dad's Buick while there for a week.  R/T mpg was 37.5.  Set cruise at about 5 over and no construction delays of any mention.  Don't know how I would have had to drive to get 42!  Only me in car and one small suitcase.

    To get 42 mpg in the Elantra you would have needed to keep it under 70 mph... if you were going 5 over between Chicago and Dallas, I'll bet you were over 70 most of the time. I've found that the sweet spot for mpg for most cars is between 50-65 mph, over that the mpg drops off precipitously. I used to get 40+ mpg in my wife's Sonata on drives under 70 mph, if no headwind. And I've gotten over 40 mpg on rental Elantras... but not at 70+ mph.
    I am still saying I got 42 on a exclusive highway driving. Mixed driving I get 37mpg. And yes, 70 is too much, I drive only 60-65 .Always set the cruise control , and drive like I have eggs under the accelerator. Let the world pass me by, I am in no hurry to go anywhere. And I use the tachometer to control my mpg . Keep it under 2000 rpm always and you cannot go wrong.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited October 2015
    That's why I just use the EPA mpg numbers for comparison rather than what people report. Way to many variables.  Don't know too many people that drive 5-10 mph under the speed limit and I certainly never do.  Nor do i keep it under 2000 rpm.  That's why when reporting mpg that is way more than EPA the extreme methods to get there is the honest way to go.  I don't doubt you got 42 on that highway trip driving like that.  
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Subaru gave the choice of an optional moonroof on both my 2.5i Premium (heated cloth seats, 17" wheels) & the 2.5i Limited (Leather, 18" wheels).  The Legacy I test drove was a limited and I was surprised it had leather & no moonroof.  The Legacy is the 1st car I've had in a while that doesn't have a moonroof.  I happen to like the clean, "slick top" look.  I also like the way the larger 18" wheels look on the Limited model.  

    You in can't generalize about low profile tires either.  Yes historically they provide a harsher ride, but the manufacturers do a good job at engineering the car to ride well even on low profile tires.  They know the majority of Americans prefer a smooth ride.

    Tires make a world of difference.  Before my legacy I had a 2011 BMW 328xi with Continental 45 series, low profile , run flat tires.  After about 20K miles the car started riding rough, crashing over expansion joints, and forget about pot holes.  I got a flat on the way home one night.  Checked out replacement costs on tire rack (for 2).  For a little bit more money, I was able to buy a set of 4 Michelin MXM ZP (zero pressure).  Same size.  Not only did they ride smoother, but the car handled better, felt more planted, and gripped better in the snow.  

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    m6user said:

    That's why I just use the EPA mpg numbers for comparison rather than what people report. Way to many variables.  Don't know too many people that drive 5-10 mph under the speed limit and I certainly never do.  Nor do i keep it under 2000 rpm.  That's why when reporting mpg that is way more than EPA the extreme methods to get there is the honest way to go.  I don't doubt you got 42 on that highway trip driving like that.  

    I don't drive 5-10 under the speed limit, but stick pretty close to them. Fortunately (for FE) the speed limits in my metro area are 65 and under, and mostly 50-60, so it's pretty easy for to exceed the EPA FE ratings if one doesn't zoom from stop light to stop light... and I see a lot of drivers do that. Just kills FE.
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    I like more rubber between the car and the road, smallest wheel available, the better. Rubber is a natural and best shock absorber if not over inflated.

    Run flat ties are a big no no. They are harder and harsher and cannot be repaired if punctured and you cannot get them when you have had a puncture and driven the permissible 50 miles :smile:

    Some brands like Michelin have higher sulphur content to make them last longer but they have harsher ride.

    Others have softer compound and ride softer but last less. To each its own .
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I had a nail in the tire of my aforementioned BMW.  The dealer noticed it when I brought it in for service.  Service advisor told me about it & asked if I had bought the tire insurance.  He and I have known each other for A while, so I said Heck No.  He replied:  no problem, I'll plug it up for you.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    So he made a lot of money off of you on the original sale - just kidding!
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760

    ral2167 said:

    Just get the moonroof people. Lower the seat if you need more headroom.

    Everyone should just get a minivan. Perfectly functional and nobody needs anything else. [/joking-sarcasm]
    carboy21 said:


    It bothers me too. Plus it creates a hazard during roll over crashes as it might be weakening the roof which we are not made aware off.

    If anything, there's a good chance the roof structure is stronger on cars with a sunroof. If you look at most newer cars the roof strength is a primary function of the pillars and side structure of the car. Beyond the windshield header there isn't much structure side-to-side connecting the outer cage structure of the unibody.

    Many don't realize that although brittle, glass is inherently very strong and items like the windshield play a key part in the structural integrity of a vehicle (which is why installation procedures of replacement glass is very important). The glass of a moon/sunroof that sits in rails to allow it to open/move isn't tied directly into the car's structure like a windshield but the automaker normally has to strengthen the roof structure to support the sunroof's frame assembly. That might very well increase the crush and deformation resistance for offset/side/lateral impacts to the upper greenhouse of the vehicle.

    While the glass itself might fracture and not be as effective at keeping an unrestrained occupant inside the vehicle in a rollover type collision, the thin steel sheet metal panel of a conventional roof doesn't really have much impact on overall strength of the unibody. If you ever get a chance to walk through a self-serve junkyard and look at various cars that have the headliner remove you'll see most only have a very small brace to help hold up the sheet metal roof panel.
    http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/9430/buick/enclave/buick-enclave-leaks-when-it-rains/p7

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    My Fusion 19s are not harsh at all - they're smooth and quiet.
  • zigster38zigster38 Member Posts: 117
    Honda's CVT's seem to be a cut above the rest. Plus if you have the paddle shifters you almost can't tell its a cvt. I avg 30 mpg in mine with 37ish on the freeway. Now if it goes out at 50k miles I will sing a different tune but I'm going to trade it in long before then anyway
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,057
    Our 2015 Outback has a CVT with the 3.6L H6 engine - the software has been set up so that it 'feels' like a traditional automatic transmission, and it also has paddle shifters to manually control what "gear" it's in.

    The only time I notice it's a CVT is when we are on the highway with the cruise control set and we go up an incline. Rather than drop down a gear or two to hold the speed, the revs simply increase. Very smooth.

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    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,433
    My RDX gets better mpg at 70 than 60. Roughly. Because I can feather it and keep it running in vcm mode. Can see on the instant MPG readout when it kicks in.

    Yes, I hyper mile drive that beast! I also get much better mileage in it than my wife the on/off lead foot.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    edited October 2015
    stickguy said:

    My RDX gets better mpg at 70 than 60. Roughly. Because I can feather it and keep it running in vcm mode. Can see on the instant MPG readout when it kicks in.

    Yes, I hyper mile drive that beast! I also get much better mileage in it than my wife the on/off lead foot.

    Most people shoot off from red light to red light with their foot pressing the accelerator continously to speed up the car. I just keep the foot steady and let the car's gears do the acceleration. Simple but effective technique to avoid guzzling gas at each stop signs . Same thing while approaching stop lights. Anticipate stops and lift of the gas pedal and let the car's gears do the breaking instead rushing to the red light and braking hard.

    On highway and interstate driving, always try to set the cruise control at the the speed limit and if a gap opens up or narrows between you and the car in front, use the acce + and decce - buttons to increase or decrease speeds instead of the brake and the gas pedals. Avoid the temptation to close all gaps between you and the cars in front as long as you are doing your steady speed on cruise. Impatient and aggressive driving consumes more gas

    And we have people whining about poor gas mileage without evaluating their driving habits
  • mtnman1mtnman1 Member Posts: 431
    zigster38 said:

    Honda's CVT's seem to be a cut above the rest. Plus if you have the paddle shifters you almost can't tell its a cvt. I avg 30 mpg in mine with 37ish on the freeway. Now if it goes out at 50k miles I will sing a different tune but I'm going to trade it in long before then anyway

    I did not feel the CVT in the Accord was any better in any way than my Fusion Hybrid's CVT. In the spring of this year I test drove the Accord and was wondering what all the hype that I always hear about was in the first place. If you want a standout CVT the Subaru Legacy had the feeling of gears shifting. I have never owned a CVT and have grown quite comfortable with it now that I have driven 9200 miles in my 2015 Fusion that I bought 3/31/15.
    2012 Highlander Limited AWD V6 and 2015 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE
  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676
    A friend of mine just got a CPO Fusion Hybrid. That is one sharp car.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Just FYI - the hybrid e-cvt is not the same as the regular CVT trans.
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    akirby said:

    Just FYI - the hybrid e-cvt is not the same as the regular CVT trans.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Synergy_Drive
  • sdasda Member Posts: 6,934
    mtnman1 said:

    zigster38 said:

    Honda's CVT's seem to be a cut above the rest. Plus if you have the paddle shifters you almost can't tell its a cvt. I avg 30 mpg in mine with 37ish on the freeway. Now if it goes out at 50k miles I will sing a different tune but I'm going to trade it in long before then anyway

    I did not feel the CVT in the Accord was any better in any way than my Fusion Hybrid's CVT. In the spring of this year I test drove the Accord and was wondering what all the hype that I always hear about was in the first place. If you want a standout CVT the Subaru Legacy had the feeling of gears shifting. I have never owned a CVT and have grown quite comfortable with it now that I have driven 9200 miles in my 2015 Fusion that I bought 3/31/15.
    I haven't had any issues with the CVT in the Accord and actually like some aspects of how it functions. Yet, given a choice I still prefer the way a modern conventional automatic feels.

    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    edited October 2015
    Obama's mandate to increase fuel efficiency to 54mpg by 2025 has resulted in Automakers shifting to CVT transmissions which were meant only for ATV and Snowmobiles due to their smaller engines and shorter range.
    It is a disposable transmission and these CVT cars will have steep drop in resale values , as CVT has a much shorter lifespan and need to be replaced if blown out, costing 4-5 k .
    I would never buy a used car with CVT.

    Nissan, Honda, Subaru have embraced CVT.
    Toyota ( non-hybrids, except Yaris) , Mazda, Hyundai, Kia , BMW, VW, do not have CVT

  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676
    I think that's quite overblown. Nissan has been using CVTs for a long time and there are no reported widespread issues with them. It's a proven technology and one way to achieve better fuel economy. Turbo is another. Hybrid technology and plug in are other ways.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    suydam said:

    I think that's quite overblown. Nissan has been using CVTs for a long time and there are no reported widespread issues with them. It's a proven technology and one way to achieve better fuel economy. Turbo is another. Hybrid technology and plug in are other ways.

    Nissan Rogue has CVT issues . Check the forums
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    While I am not a fan CVTs , citing a few problems with one model is hardly backup for your statements.  Honda had a lot of problems on a few models with regular tq covtr automatics also.  So what?  I know Nissan had quite a few problems early on and extended warranties but for the past 10 years or so they haven'th had a lot of trouble, and by that I mean widespread.  Reading several posts on a forum complaining about problems does not constitute widescale problems.  Resale value on older Nissan and Subarus don't seem like they are out of line with others.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited October 2015
    carboy21 said:

    Obama's mandate to increase fuel efficiency to 54mpg by 2025....

    from an article in Edmunds from a few years ago:

    "The 54.5-mpg figure equals about 36 mpg in the EPA's current window-sticker measuring system. So despite what the politicians and headlines say, forget the idea that all cars and trucks will be delivering somewhere around 54.5 mpg 13 years from now. That simply won't happen."

    http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/good-and-bad-news-emerges-from-cafes-fine-print.html
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • mtnman1mtnman1 Member Posts: 431
    edited October 2015
    akirby said:

    Just FYI - the hybrid e-cvt is not the same as the regular CVT trans.

    Thanks for the Info. Still feels the same as the Honda CVT. And I definetely would prefer a regular Transmission with a 6 or 8 cylinder if they only could deliver and overall average Mph of 43 like my Hybrid Fusion has so far. Nothing like the sound of a V8 under hard acceleration. If money was no issue I would buy a Roush Mustang or Dodge Hellcat and not care about fuel economy. But since I'm 60 years old the reality of trying to retire has me being more rational.
    2012 Highlander Limited AWD V6 and 2015 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,024
    suydam said:

    I think that's quite overblown. Nissan has been using CVTs for a long time and there are no reported widespread issues with them. It's a proven technology and one way to achieve better fuel economy. Turbo is another. Hybrid technology and plug in are other ways.

    Didn't Nissan have to double the transmission warranty on a whole bunch of model years? I read that they also had a "secret warranty" on transmissions with problems. That would tell me they had widespread issues.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    m6user said:
    While I am not a fan CVTs , citing a few problems with one model is hardly backup for your statements.  Honda had a lot of problems on a few models with regular tq covtr automatics also.  So what?  I know Nissan had quite a few problems early on and extended warranties but for the past 10 years or so they haven'th had a lot of trouble, and by that I mean widespread.  Reading several posts on a forum complaining about problems does not constitute widescale problems.  Resale value on older Nissan and Subarus don't seem like they are out of line with others.
    Subarus became CVT last  year 
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Yes. But wasn't that like 9-10 years ago? Nissan has went through like 3 generations of the trans by now. Literally hundreds of thousands on the road and I don't see them broke down all over the place.
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    m6user said:
    Yes. But wasn't that like 9-10 years ago? Nissan has went through like 3 generations of the trans by now. Literally hundreds of thousands on the road and I don't see them broke down all over the place.
    Google CVT problems 
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    I know someone who 'had' a Rogue with CVT. It crapped out in the middle of nowhere(western Mass Pike). It wasn't fixed right and broke down again. They traded it for a used Escape and are very happy,
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676
    And I know 4 people with Rogues who love them and have had no problem. Anecdotal evidence means nothing. The question is how they fare across a large swath of the population, not the few people we happen to know.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,433
    sounds like the Honda V6 trans problems. %wise, not that many people, but it was a fairly large #, and they were really, really vocal!

    so it IMO is the same with the rougue. A design with some weak point that for some group of owners led to very premature catastrophic failure.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I recall Nissan having a fair amount of transaxle issues some years back, but I'm guessing it was probably more related to Ghosn cost cutting than the CVT concept.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I don't have to "Google it".  If there were widespread problems everyone that posts in here would have heard about it and the press would be reporting on it.  Massive major system failures are never secrets.
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    suydam said:

    And I know 4 people with Rogues who love them and have had no problem. Anecdotal evidence means nothing. The question is how they fare across a large swath of the population, not the few people we happen to know.

    So you expect every car to break down before you are convinced there is a design flaw ?
    Maybe it will be your turn to have a CVT fail at 70mph on an interstate with an 18 wheeler semi-rig roll over you while your car staggers to a halt :smile:
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Is the sky falling and nobody has heard about it?  Plenty of regular transmissions have failed over the years as well.  Like I said , I'm not a fan of CVTs but I need a lot more solid evidence to accept the idea that an actual design flaw exists.  Got a feeling the design engineers know a little more than someone who reads some forum posts and has one friend with a tranny problem.
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