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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,407
    edited March 3

    @MrShift@Edmunds said: fuel is America's largest export product! We can't be toooo short of it, can we?

    Actually we are very short - we use over twice what we produce. Our oil production peaked in the 70's.

    I think some like to confuse the facts by comparing refined oil - which we do export. But overall we use much much more "oil" than we produce.

  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,648

    Don't discount that whopping difference in fuel prices---Americans have been known to 'turn on a dime" when fuel prices change radically. Think about the "old days" when diesel cars held about 6% of the US market---diesel fuel was cheaper than regular.

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,053
    edited March 3

    "Let it snow let it snow let it snow". We are getting hit again. This time with a half inch of ice underneath 6" of snow as a bonus. There have been over 300 accidents in Fairfax and Prince William County alone since midnight last night.

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622

    And everyone was laughing at Atlanta........

    I don't care where you live - you can't drive on solid ice with regular tires.

  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,648

    you can't drive on ice with ANY tires really. I mean, you can TRY, or use sheet metal screws I suppose, but really, ice and cars don't mix. You need some....substance...to GRIP....

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,623
    edited March 3

    Given that diesel costs more per gallon, sometimes there's not much of a case for diesel in terms of saving money.

    For example, a new Mazda6, Honda Accord, and Nissan Altima all have lower annual gas costs according to the EPA than a VW Passat diesel. The Passat diesel gets c. 3-5 more mpg, but the higher cost of diesel completely wipes out any savings. And since a Passat diesel costs c. $2000-$3000 more than a comparably equipped Altima, Accord, or Mazda6, you pay a premium for savings that don't really exist.

    If you're in love with diesel for other reasons, like torque, or because you never want to change spark plugs, or you want to help VW gain market share, then good on ya. But if you're buying a diesel to save money, then right now it's a tough case to make since the new generations of gas cars get such good mpg.

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622

    Exactly. Although snow tires do seem to help, even on ice.

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,623

    midsize sales for Feb....

    Altima: 30,849

    Camry: 28,998

    Fusion: 23,898

    Accord: 23,712

    Malibu: 17,448

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 1,544

    It surprises me the Altima is the best seller. It just isn't on my radar at all. Truly an anonymous car, and I always felt the CVT hurt it. Maybe the segment just doesn't care.

    2011 Buick Regal Turbo, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,623
    edited March 3

    As The Chairman says on The Iron Chef: "Let the battle begin!" Nissan, Toyota, and Ford are all offering 0% financing plus cash on the hood. They're almost giving them away! Honda's sticking with their very nice but not quite as aggressive 0.9%. And this month Nissan takes the crown. The Camry may indeed be vulnerable, but Toyota executives have said they'll pay any price to keep their car in first place in the sales race. We'll see about that....

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 13,587

    @ab348 said: It surprises me the Altima is the best seller. It just isn't on my radar at all. Truly an anonymous car, and I always felt the CVT hurt it. Maybe the segment just doesn't care.

    IMO the vast majority of segment buyers don't care about the car. Just the deal. As long as it is reasonably comfortable and mileage and performance are acceptable, it is all about the Benjamin's.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • brian125brian125 New york / S.C. myrtle beachPosts: 2,022
    edited March 3

    I'd like to chime in on sticks comment. He is right on about the dollar . I have bought and closed many deals for family, friends and friends of friends for over 40 years maybe well over one thousand vehicles bought across the country. I always said in these forums when you look at buying a new vehicle every dealer sells the same product.. lowest price closest to your home wins 9 out of 10 times. Many times my friends would give me 2 or 3 models and what ever car is the cheapest they wanted.

    Benjaminh is correct but he forgot to mention Kia , and Hyundai in the up comming price wars. If you read thru this months Cr reports on cars, trucks I'm amazed how many different vehicles are not such a bad choice after all. Im not a guy who care's much about MPG, I like my cars/ suv's, roomy , quiet, and fast but thats me. someone else who travels needs mpg or wants a sport tuned ride etc.

    If Honda doesn't want to discount there vehicles with deeper rebates/ incentives folks will look elsewhere. Perfect example Nissan and Toyota this month are outselling hondas best midsize car.. Its all about $$$$$$$$$$ Saved for most. I have had many folks emailing me saying Hey Brian I'm done with Honda and the nonsense and games they play with us...... Going for that Nissan or Hyundai.

    2013 Genesis 5.0 R-spec, 2013 Accord EXL V-6, 2012 BMW x-5, 2012 ML350

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,653

    @brian125 said: I'd like to chime in on sticks comment. He is right on about the dollar . I have bought and closed many deals for family, friends and friends of friends for over 40 years maybe well over one thousand vehicles bought across the country. I always said in these forums when you look at buying a new vehicle every dealer sells the same product.. lowest price closest to your home wins 9 out of 10 times. Many times my friends would give me 2 or 3 models and what ever car is the cheapest they wanted.

    Benjaminh is correct but he forgot to mention Kia , and Hyundai in the up comming price wars. If you read thru this months Cr reports on cars, trucks I'm amazed how many different vehicles are not such a bad choice after all. Im not a guy who care's much about MPG, I like my cars/ suv's, roomy , quiet, and fast but thats me. someone else who travels needs mpg or wants a sport tuned ride etc.

    If Honda doesn't want to discount there vehicles with deeper rebates/ incentives folks will look elsewhere. Perfect example Nissan and Toyota this month are outselling hondas best midsize car.. Its all about $$$$$$$$$$ Saved for most. I have had many folks emailing me saying Hey Brian I'm done with Honda and the nonsense and games they play with us...... Going for that Nissan or Hyundai.

    You're right. I probably wouldn't choose the Altima (I'm not in the market now and haven't compared them all...so who knows), but I took notice a couple days ago when a local Nissan dealer TV advertisement indicated $5000 off of MSRP.

    If it truly was $5k less than the competition (and not their "S" demo model, etc) then I may not even go drive the others; that is a significant discount.

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,623
    edited March 3

    Hey Brian: I don't understand what you mean by Honda's "nonsense and games"? They don't allow options, but that's how they've done things since the 70s. Having trim lines instead of thousands of combinations of options simplifies manufacturing, lowers costs, and increases quality. This allows them to offer a somewhat better and somewhat more reliable car than most of their competitors for just a little bit more money. Honda's engineering, imho, is at or near the best in most areas. Their prices seem fair for what they are offering. To me it's the others who are getting into games with 0% plus money on the hood, but there's no doubt it helps move the metal! And if Honda wants to stay in the game, they'll probably need to increase their incentives a little. But mainly Honda is selling their cars on being a good value for a slightly better car, rather than selling on the lowest possible price. I think there's still a segment of the market that will pay a little bit more for a better car. The bottom line is that Honda is moving just a little bit upmarket compared to, say, a Camry, and to me that's a good thing....

  • brian125brian125 New york / S.C. myrtle beachPosts: 2,022
    edited March 3

    I have done deals on cars for as little as 800 less than the other brand. go figure.. I would bet anything that the members who have the new Sonata are happy the Fusion or Optima with little complaint. Maybe down the road 5, 6 years when the vehicle is aging you might say this might not of been a good choice. There are many vehicles that i would Never buy but when you read about people who have these vehicles and are happy with them i say to myself maybe i was the foolish one to spend that extra 5 or 10 k. LOL

    2013 Genesis 5.0 R-spec, 2013 Accord EXL V-6, 2012 BMW x-5, 2012 ML350

  • brian125brian125 New york / S.C. myrtle beachPosts: 2,022
    edited March 3

    Honda dealerships across the country while some are good decent dealerships alot more are into deceiving folks on price, lying to get them into the dealerships and there unwillingness to sell there vehicles cheaper in some area's. If your area is sellling at xxx price i will show you how to get the dealers best price in your area. THEN its up to you if you want to buy in your area or broaden your dealership search maybe going out of state for a better deal.. Alot of people in these forums fall into the trap of seeing other posters claim they got 1500 below invoice price. But in there area or state dealerships are selling at 400 below invoice price.. So they try like hell to get that 1500 and have a hard buying process.

    Honda makes a great product they refuse to discount like the other car brands and why should they if they can get it.. Like you mentioned in your above post the other car companies will push honda to lower there profit margin and price by offering deeper cuts and incentives. There are alot of good choice's today so honda even thou reports claim they have the best overall midsize vehicle sales seem to be driven by price in the midsize market.

    2013 Genesis 5.0 R-spec, 2013 Accord EXL V-6, 2012 BMW x-5, 2012 ML350

  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,648

    @akirby said: Exactly. Although snow tires do seem to help, even on ice.

    That was a very interesting video, thanks. The studless winter tires did better than I thought they would--even though these tests are done at very slow speeds.

    It would be interesting to conduct the same tests on the ice with just a light film of water on it, like one often encounters in the real world.

  • suydamsuydam Posts: 883

    The Altima is not just for people who don't care. It's a very nice car. We had a hard time deciding between it and the Accord, and price was not the factor.

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,623
    edited March 4

    year-to-date midsize sales.....

    Altima: 53,364

    Camry: 52,330

    Accord: 45,226

    Fusion: 44,615

    Malibu: 29,270

    Chr 200: 22,958

    Optima: 21,205

    Sonata: 21,005

    Passat: 13,233

    Avenger: 12,984

    Mazda6: 7117

    Legacy: 5310

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,623

    suydam: Yeah, the Altima is impressive. The style is a bit weird, but it's growing on me. And it is currently the mpg leader when it comes to epa ratings. I've seen them advertised in Louisville for as low as c. $19,000. That's quite a good car for that kind of money....I'd definitely take an Altima over a Camry.

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