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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,730
    Not necessarily. The Focus and Escape interiors were done prior to Fields taking over and from what the insiders tell us the Flex interior is closer to what we'll see on the 09 Fusion (with adjustments for cars vs. CUV, etc.). Remember the Flex will hit the streets next summer before the 09 Fusion.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I'm surprised at your low highway MPG. I averaged about 32 mpg in automatic mazda6 I4, which is the same engine. This was over a 1600 mile round trip at about 72-77 mph most of the time and A/C on part of the time.

    I've been getting 23-25 mpg in my normal suburban commute...speed on my route varies from about 30 to 60 mph with an average speed around 40-45 mph. There are quite few stop lights but no congestion.

    I think the I4 sounds great, at least in the Mazda variation. I don't feel there is excessive engine noise at all. I could do with somewhat less tire noise than the Mazda has on some pavement, though.
  • jd10013jd10013 Posts: 779
    the altima was at 25,935, and the accord was at 28,900 (surprisingly, down 14%), the camry was at 46,630, and the fusion was 12,425. also down from last year.

    the two that are really surprising are the altima and camry. even though fusion and accord sales were down from last year, both companies saw solid growth in their compact cars, (both focus and civic were way up)which probably explains the drop. but corrola and sentra sales were also up significantly.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    in this era of $4 gas, pretty much all mfgrs. of smaller/economical sedans should see increases. The Altima has been a solid #3 for some time now and is further reinforced by its update, the Accord is an outgoing design and should be 'suffering' at least until its redesign, while the Camry is well, the Camry.
  • jd10013jd10013 Posts: 779
    I think the altima was the most striking, sales figure wise. the camry growth can be attributed to the hybrid version. but the altima saw a 77% increase from june 2006. they didn't sell enough coupe's to attribute it to that. and actually, that was the fist decline in the accord in a long time. Have the rebates stopped or something? seems they were keeping the sales going strong for most of this year.
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    Well, as I said since this was the first time driving the Fusion on this particular trip. And I can't comment on an extended drive as yours that probably included a lot longer time at cruise speed on an interstate/turnpike. I can, however, equate this car to others including my own (the 95 Stratus and a 2006 Civic) on this re-occurring trip that follows the same route..speed (more or less) and load week in and week out. I was somewhat surprised by the fuel economy but I knew about what was coming by the amount of fuel left (per the dash gage)upon return home. Also, I don't really know what Ford was thinking leaving the amount of induction noise intact when designing this. I have not encountered this much noise on a new car...ever! Yeah, there is muted intake/induction noise on other brands but this seems to have been left intact to simulate "sportiness?" maybe. It really is unrelenting unless you absolutely are on cruise with no additional acceleration needed. But, accelerate for any reason and it becomes evident again. This may be pleasing to some but it is annoying when it drowns out the radio (low volume to be sure).
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    As an addendum I have researched the hp/torque figures on both the Stratus 2.5 V-6 and the 2007 Fusion 2.3 I4. As follows:
    1.) 2.5 Stratus V-6. 164 hp 163 lb./ft.torque.
    2.) 2.3 I4 Fusion 160 hp 156 lb./ft. torque.
    3.) Stratus weight...approx. 3180 lb.
    4.) Fusion weight..unknown at this point but possibly something very similar.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Fusion weight..unknown at this point but possibly something very similar.

    Yep, it is 3101 pounds with manual, according to edmunds, then add about 75 pounds for the automatic and it is right there with the Stratus. 75 pounds is the added weight for automatic, based on Mazda6 brochure I have.
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    While this car isn't within this size class (and therefore not to be dissused here) I think this is interesting. I had occasion to rent a 2006 Chevy Impala to make "the trip" about a month ago. It had the base 3.5 liter V-6 and 4 speed auto. At the end of "the trip" the fuel economy readout said....29.4 mpg. I believe this to be due,in very large part,to the gearing..approx 1600 RPM @ 72 mph.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,730
    Ford has suffered on fuel economy because Bill Ford's mandate for the last several years has been emissions. Ford has a V6 Explorer that puts out less emissions than a Prius, yet they never advertised it and the public never seemed to care. I always thought that was the wrong focus but it seemed to be a personal thing with Billy. Now the gloves are off and we've seen a hint with the new Taurus having a mileage increase while adding 60 hp with the new 3.5L engine. I expect mpg increases across the board for all the new stuff starting with the 09 models.
  • benderofbowsbenderofbows Posts: 544
    Oh, coasting seems harmless enough but what if a powered move becomes necessary? By the time one realizes they are in neutral and remembers to engage drive the need for the powered move has passed..to what harm?? Not for me!

    It's a manual, I wouldn't shift an automatic into neutral while cruising.

    My last automatic... if I was cruising along in gear and decided I needed to make a "powered move" and punched it, I would get... nothing. The car would hesitate for a moment as if to say, are you serious? Then, the revs would fall as it shifted out of the gear it was in and worked its way down... when it found the gear it wanted, wham! the revs would shoot way back up, and acceleration would begin.

    Even if I forget I'm in neutral, I can shift into gear and get going as quick as an average slushbox can react to your right foot.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    In a perhaps more controlled test, EPA has 29 mpg highway for the Fusion I4 and 28 for the 3.5L Impala. So they are close on the highway. Difference is only 2 mpg in the EPA city test.

    Also, I beleive in contrast to your results...in the March 2006 issue CR measured 32 mpg highway for the I4 Fusion (milan, actually) and the sonata 4 cyl was measured at 33 mpg highway in that same issue.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    in my V6 Accord. And I drive with a lead foot and at 80 MPH when I can and traffic will allow me to. Also I drive in heavy traffic often. On long trips I'd easily hit the EPA estimate of 30 highway at 80 MPH.
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    Yeah, you know the often used phrase..."results may vary" is true. I try to maintain 72 mph on the Pa Turnpike on all the cars I travel in, rented or not. Then on the more rural stretches of 2 lane in Bedford and Somerset County Pa. I am constantly aware of the deer population even during the daylight. This past trip we saw 3 doe with 4 fawn in the middle of the afternoon. At night things get worse + bear + bobcat so all kinds of wildlife is around. I hit two deer last fall so I am especially aware with a rental. As a result I drive moderately especially at night. It would be safe to say my driving is about as sedate as possible off the Turnpike. So fuel economy should be at its best as far as speed is concerned..BUT factor in the mountainous stretches and economy falls to some degree or another.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    ..BUT factor in the mountainous stretches and economy falls to some degree or another.


    We traversed the PA TP (worst road in the world I say) from Pittsburgh to Lancaster two weeks ago in our '06 Explorer. Just under 22 mpg for the trip which was 95% highway, 70-75 mph, A/C on all the way, and CC on most of the way. I thought that was pretty darn good. Now we're back to 13 mpg for our 90% city commute where you have to start from full rest on long steep hills. I think that's where mileage suffers, not on highway hills.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Altima Recall

    Uh oh, not good for Nissan.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Uh oh, not good for Nissan.

    Replace the air filter and add a screen.

    I'd say that is a very minor recall.

    Not even close to "sludged engines" or breaking camshafts or having to replace engine coils.
  • jd10013jd10013 Posts: 779
    yea, a $6 air filter isn't really that big a deal. every car gets recalled for something. this is about as minor as it gets
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Apparently, cars with the 2.5-liter four-cylinder have an air filter that can cause some serious problems. It seems that if something hot is sucked into the filter, like ashes from a cigarette, it can catch on fire. Four incidents have already been reported to Nissan.

    Uh, yeah, replacing an air filter is no biggie but the reason behind that isn't so "minor" as it seems.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    1/10th as much as a single problem that isn't admitted to across the board.

    I know from reading MSN's user reviews that everyone had the same problems I did with their domestic, (well, okay, not all, but many). Dodge never admitted to any wrong doing or recalls. What a sham!
  • jd10013jd10013 Posts: 779
    its still minor. so far, .003% of the cars sold have had a problem. deffinitly not minor if you one of those 4 people, but for the 139,996 whose car's didn't suck something hot up the air intake and cause the air filter to catch fire, not that big a deal. no worse than the 165,000 accords that were recalled in march because of an engine problem.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,387
    Sounds trivial to me. I can't recall the last time I drove through flames or burning embers. The closest I came was 18 years ago a foreign car pulled out to pass in front on my on way home with wife from day surgery at hospital. Apparently he gunned it or something as he changed lanes in front of me (I was in left lane). IT blew up as he pulled into my lane spraying engine parts and oil and coolant all over my car. Pieces looked like rods. But no flames. Next time, who knows. :blush:
  • My thoughts exactly. Even the rear of the new Accord is similar to the Saturn L-series. Having disliked the current Accord, I had high hopes for the 2008 model. Unfortunately, I the new design is among my least favorite of the midsize segment. I hope that it looks better in person.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    I've owned many, many cars in my 49 years of driving but I've never owned one with 100,000 miles.
    ***

    Meh. My 1975 Volvo 164E? 230K. My 1990 Volvo 240? 270K. My Toyota 4-Runner?(currently running) 345K and still going. 4 cylinder Toyotas are as close to indestructible as it gets.

    Oh - and I had a couple of Buicks at 150K+ before I got rid of them.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    What year , make and model had that unresponsive slushbox tranny? My '05 Sonata with automatic tranny is responsive. I haven't driven the latest generation Sonata, but my brother says his '07 Sonata SE has plenty of juice at any speed.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    Lead foot doesn't mean dink if you are on highway run. Once you've attained the speed it doesn't take much to maintain the speed. A long steep hill will affect it some, but nothing like accelerating from 0 to 60, regardless of how easy or hard one is on the gas.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    On my last longish trip going through very hilly parts and going 85 most of the way, I got 28 mpg so getting 30 mpg in an Accord shouldn't be considered that big of a deal.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    so, with 20,000 miles and after driving it for 18 months, my car is worth MORE THAN WHAT I PAID FOR IT (using their suggested retail price)!!! And private party value is about $2200 less than what I paid for it. Some were saying resale value is mostly dependent on what car you buy...I would suggest that this piece of information indicates that price paid is a bigger factor. So when a car can be had at a great price (I've heard of Mazda6's selling new for $6k+ below msrp), resale value as a percentage of price paid will be much better than brands who charge a premium for their product.

    But I should mention that this info is not too important...I plan on keeping this car for quite a while since I really enjoy driving it. For my tastes, it's still the best mix of practicality, attractiveness, performance, safety, and value in this segment.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Why wouldn't somebody just buy a new one like you did and get the better price?

    I wouldn't put a whole lot of anything into KBB or NADA etc. Your car is worth what someone will pay you, and that could be a lot less than you think.
  • tallman1tallman1 Posts: 1,874
    so getting 30 mpg in an Accord shouldn't be considered that big of a deal.

    I get at least 30 around town in my 06 I4 Accord with a manual. I've only had a couple of tanks of gas that got 29. Highway is always well above EPA.
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