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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Exactly. It's not much of a risk for Chrysler because many people lease cars for a short time, and the average time of ownership of a car is just a few years (one article about this warranty quoted someone at Chrysler as saying 3 years). But it does really stand out as something unique in the industry, and therefore is a smart step for Chrysler, which is desparate to attract buyers any way they can. Then they have to hope that the curious people who come in to drive a Sebring or Avenger like the car enough to buy or lease it.

    One little problem I see with this warranty program: when Hyundai did it eight years ago, they had a big problem with lack of confidence in the quality of their vehicles. A long warranty can help alleviate that concern. I don't think Chrysler's big problem is vehicle reliability, at least not powertrain reliability. I think it's that they need more competitive car designs, especially mid-sized cars (and small cars too). A long warranty won't help solve that problem, but maybe it will help them stay in the game better until they can improve their cars.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Well there are a few oddballs like me that buy a car new and keep it forever. Had our first two new cars for 12 years each and our 3rd for 10 and counting. Plan to keep the latest ones just as long.

    Most people in both our families are the same way and I expect our kids will be so also, so for us it would be a factor. OTOH, from the mfr's perspective, if all you attract are the buyers who come in once every 12 years (like me) you will only sell them 1/4 as many cars as you would to the same number of people who trade every 3 years. :surprise:

    I would have liked to have had a warranty like this on my windstar to cover all the gaskets in their sieve (3.8L engine). And actually, now that I think of it, it was seals and gaskets that led to the demise of it's predecessor...a Plymouth minivan.

    I think this would have caused me to give additional consideration to Chyrsler products, but pretty sure even after that I would not have chosen the Sebring.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    I tend to keep new cars in the family for a long time also, but I don't put many miles on in a year. That is why the long warranties from Hyundai et. al. appeal to me. However, the warranty is no good to me if I don't like the car. The warranty is a tie-breaker for me, if more than one car crosses the bar in every other respect. The Sebring and Avenger don't do that for me. But suppose it came down to, say, an Optima and a Milan, for about the same price. Then the Optima's longer warranty would be a plus.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    If someone was already considering a Chrysler product, this could cinch the deal. This warranty should help Chrysler retain/maintain the current number of customers, but as far as attracting more/new customers, I doubt it will be so effective.
  • jd10013jd10013 Posts: 779
    Ford's first profitable' quarter in a long long time

    even ford themselves said it would be the only profitable quarter this year, and they don't expect sustained profitablilty till 2009
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    But it sure helps with the cash flow situation.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    It also shocked a lot of so called financial "experts". :shades:

    This article appeared in the Detroit News the morning of the 26th. They should have waited to publish their guesses. :D
  • csandstecsandste Posts: 1,866
    Not a huge MT fan, but.... let the Kia haters begin the tirades...

    Buick LaCrosse 2
    Chevy Malibu 3
    Chrysler Sebring 2
    Dodge Avenger 2.5
    Ford Fusion 3
    Honda Accord 3.5
    Hyundai Sonata 3
    Kia Optima 3.5
    Mazda 6 2.5
    Mercury Milan 3
    Mitsubishi Galant 2.5
    Nissan Altima 3
    Pontiac G6 2.5
    Saturn Aura 3
    Suburu Impreza 3
    Toyota Camry 3.5
    Volkswagen Jetta 3.5
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    bet if Honda or Toyota came out with a similar warranty it would be praised as evidence of superior quality
    Hogwash, IMO - if you find Toyota or Honda offering these ridiculous warranties then it is evidence of declining market share or (even worse) declining reputation. Camcords have the warranties that they have precisely and only because that is all that is needed to sell them - some of the cars in this group don't get a second look without it - and it would be foolish (and bad business) for Toyota/Honda (and Nissan) to do such a thing when all three cars sell just fine and magically blow away the lesser competition in long term reliability studies anyway. In short, these extended warranties are more likely evidence of suspect quality (and reputation) not superior.
    The Camcords, specifically, have set the standard in this class for about 25 years now, and there is no evidence at this point that any of this has changed other than the competition seems, over a much shorter term, to be getting a bit better. It's about time - it is not like those other manufacturers didn't have plenty of time to see how it's done...
    These warranties are offered for several marketing type reasons, but 'superior quality' is NOT one of them. 'Superior quality' is something that is expected from models from particular mfgrs., and not something that any warranty of any length is ever going to imply/evidence/guarantee (or whatever), for 10 years or 10 minutes!
    From your statement you are trying to tell me that the Sebring, in this case, must be the best built car available, if we are to assume that this model is covered by this Chrysler warranty? Gimme a break!
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    We'll know in 4 years when the clean sheet new products arrive.
    oh yeah, more promises coming from Dearborn. Both the Fusion and Five Hundred were touted to be class competitive and defining 'clean sheet' new products, neither of which are or were. How about some results - the promises are getting very, very, very, old.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    We'll know in 4 years when the clean sheet new products arrive.

    I believe what the captain meant to say was:
    oh yeah, more promises coming from Dearborn. Both the Fusion and Five Hundred were touted to be class competitive and defining 'clean sheet' new productsINSERT PERSONAL OPINION HERE

    I think there is a slight mix up between class competitive and class leading. Of course, I don't think an over powered weak kneed lounge chair is class leading either, and that seemed to drive his purchase decision.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    From your statement you are trying to tell me that the Sebring, in this case, must be the best built car available, if we are to assume that this model is covered by this Chrysler warranty? Gimme a break!

    Please re-read what I posted. I guess you stopped after the first sentence.

    I bet if Honda or Toyota came out with a similar warranty it would be praised as evidence of superior quality. Neither position is accurate as warranty length has nothing to do with quality - it's just an insurance policy with a defined cost that has to be built into the product. Higher quality means less warranty cost but you can put a 10 yr warranty on anything if you have enough profit to pay for the repairs.

    My point was the Camcord lovers have such a double standard on things like this that it's almost laughable.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    oh yeah, more promises coming from Dearborn. Both the Fusion and Five Hundred were touted to be class competitive and defining 'clean sheet' new products, neither of which are or were. How about some results - the promises are getting very, very, very, old.

    The Fusion and the Five Hundred ARE competitive - not class leading but certainly competitive. The new Taurus just might be class leading.

    There are 2 things different at Ford - Fields and Mullaly - and they are making FUNDAMENTAL changes to how Ford designs and builds cars (finally) that previous CEOs either didn't know how or didn't have the guts to do. The 09 models due out next year will be the first real sign of the product design turnaround under Fields. It will take 2 or 3 more years to fully realize the global platform strategy that Mullaly is mandating now.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Five Hundred ARE competitive"

    I agree 100%. I had a 500 for a week, it had a lot of room. Amenities were ok. Acceleration was adequate, handline was annoying and it sucked gas like no tomorrow. Would I buy one over an Accord? I don't know, this car defintely fits the value proposition, pay less, get less.
  • benderofbowsbenderofbows Posts: 544
    " let the Kia haters begin the tirades... "

    I for one actually like the new Optima. From what I have seen and read, it is a big step up for that manufacturer.
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    I fail to see how a package of extended warranties e.g: Hyundai's 10 yr/100K mile powertrain coupled with a 5 yr/60K mile bumper to bumper + additional perks is "ridiculous". I have found through experience that Hyundai doesn't "need" this type of warranty any longer to sell cars. In fact I keep looking for them to drop/diminish it. However, please don't make the mistake of believing that Honda (for sure in my experience), and Toyota don't need the reassurance of a long warranty. I do have experiences (not good ones) with a 2006 Civic and keep looking over my shoulder at the end of the 3 yrs/36K mile warranty rapidly closing in on us. I for one like AND miss the luxury of a long warranty...used or not.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    no, I said what I meant to and did start that particular post with an IMO - the 500 a regurgitated Volvo, the Fusion, of course a regurgitated 6 and both hampered by old drivetrains that simply don't measure up by about any yardstick you choose to use - power and FE come to mind. Even the new Edge, portrayed recently in a magazine as something that could have 'saved Ford' has tested very poorly (CR) relative to its competition despite getting the new 'clean sheet' 3.5 which apparently isn't really 'clean sheet' after all. Yes, class leading and competitive are certainly different terms, but, it would be refreshing to see any Detriot mfgr. make something other than a truck that would cause the real Big 3 in this class to take notice.
    The Avalon, BTW, which I guess is what you diss, is anything but 'weak kneed' in the 'Touring' trim which I own, has further won outright every comparo it has ever been a part of (TMK), has the lowest COO in its class, the best power (except for the V8s, of course), the best FE, and is the highest rated sedan CR has ever tested (tied with an Acura). If you are willing to tradeoff some of smooth and quiet ride for anything not so 'soft' that's one thing but that, my friend, is exactly what 'class leading' is all about!
  • jd10013jd10013 Posts: 779
    My point was the Camcord lovers have such a double standard on things like this that it's almost laughable.

    Yes, some of them would.
    cough andres3 cough, cough

    :P
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    I have found through experience that Hyundai doesn't "need" this type of warranty any longer to sell cars.
    glad you've had apparently good luck with your Hyundais, but it would be the Korean mfgrs. that 'need' that warranty the most, IMO, not so much for what they are producing now but in payment for past sins. No car should have any sort of real problems in its first 100k, the warranties 'ridiculous' (maybe a bad choice of words) in that a well designed and built car shouldn't ever darken the dealer's doorstep until well after that mileage has come and gone. In fact, I would bet that the 7 years (for those that don't drive that much, is a tougher number (from Hyundai's perspective) than the 100k. Tell me that your Hyundai has been trouble free for several years and maybe 250k miles, that's indicative of something really good as it is for any car these days.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,528
    >Hogwash, IMO - if you find Toyota or Honda offering these ridiculous warranties then it is evidence of declining market share or (even worse) declining reputation.

    How about the transmission "extension warranty" to 100K miles for Hondas. How about the recalls to put in an oiling tube they "forgot" in engineering?

    How about the current transmission/powertrain problems with flare and hesitations in Camry (ES/Avalon), which is giving Camry a real problem in image. If you are open-minded I can link to discussions here on Edmunds where people are upset about not having the "powertrain warranty" applied even during those short full warranty periods. How about the recent sludge problem with Toyotas? They extended the warranty to cover some--at least to make it look good in the media...

    Regression to the mean is occurring.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Or it could be some people will love a lovable car.

    Just a thought,
    Loren

    P.S. on the serious side, all cars need as long a warranty as possible, as anything mechanical can need to be repaired. In the case of some cars, more often than not.
    As for Hyundai, they got some good cars. Tested the Sonata and it seemed good. Trouble for Hyundai with this group is that there are other great choices. Good doesn't trump great.
  • colloquorcolloquor Posts: 482
    Granted, the Camcords have a good track record in the USA, but marketing and consumer perception plays an enormous part in the determination of quality. Kia, which is perceived as a cheap, unreliable brand in the USA, is well-accepted in Europe.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    you buy your kid a high mileage Camcord or Civic/Corolla and that is thought to be a wise decision, do the same thing with a Kia (and many other varieties) and folks think you are crazy - perception, for sure - but also one with about 20 years of history behind it.
  • noles200noles200 Posts: 30
    guy1974 wrote this in Satun forum: To soften the blow Saturn have upto $2250 of rebates/incentives on the 07 Aura to help shift the backlog.

    Where do I get $2,250 of rebates/incentives! I just talked to the dealership and they acted like I was nuts. They said the only thing they'd give me is $500 for some conquest incentive because I'm trading in another car. $500 is crap. Tell me how to get the other $1750 and I'll buy the Aura today, otherwise I'll have to wait and upgrade to another Accord or maybe buy the '08 Malibu. I just don't understand why Saturn doesn't deal. No wonder they've only sold 9 of 128 Aura's over the past 3 weeks. That's right, they had 128 Aura's on thier lot on the 9th of this month. I don't know how they stay in business without turning inventory. The longer something sits, the worse off they are, no?
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Wonder why buying a high mileage foreign car is considered a wise decision? Seems to me like a costly repair bill would be lurking in the future. I would think the domestics would cost less to repair and be less expensive to insure. On the other hand, buying a used Kia or Hyundai seems like not so wise a move. Yeah, I would buy a used Japan make first. The Kia / Hyundai needs to be backed by the original owner warranty, thus bought new and held for ten years to pay out.

    My Dad knew a traveling salesman that bought high mileage Civic, drove them another 50K to 100K then dumped it and bought another one. Well it could work out. To buy a kid one, with the chance of it breaking, with a higher insurance rate makes little sense to me.
    Loren
  • jd10013jd10013 Posts: 779
    I agree. anything over 150k miles is a crap shoot at best. If it was properly and professionally maintained it might go another 100k. But then again, it might not. Unless it was being had real cheap, doesn't really make a lot of sense.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    Your information is all nice and dandy, but I get annoyed, suspicious, and rightfully angry when Insurance Agents (not all agents/companies, but definitely some) ask me the following question when I'm asking to get a quote:

    Is your 2.0L Turbo Audi A3 a Sport or Premium version?

    They are the exact same car, only the Sport has a "sport" suspension, and high performance summer tires vs. the Premium's all-season performance tires. Cost wise, they were virtually identical in MSRP in 2006; so I ask you..... why the question?

    I understand the need to differentiate between the 3.2 Quattro V6 and the 2.0T 4 cylinder in the A3, but not the Sport vs. Premium.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    :lemon: I disagree.

    I think Chrysler's biggest problem is having produced nothing but :lemon: 's in their long history. My experience with them and from people I know is that they have produced about as many non-lemons in their entire corporate history as Yugo produced cars in the US period.

    Either way, the biggest problem is that everyone knows Chryslers have terrible reliability, including the powertrains, and that leads to terrible resale value since they don't last much past 50K miles.

    Since the warranty doesn't transfer, the resale value (one key problem) is not helped one bit! SHAME on Chrysler!

    Plus, they won't exist in 10 years anyway, so the warranty won't be worth the paper it's written on.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    My point was the Camcord lovers have such a double standard on things like this that it's almost laughable.

    Funny, I don't think anyone became a Camcord lover at first sight. I think they all fell in love after one or more ownership experiences over years. It was a slow love affair. :blush:

    I don't think anyone hated the Big 3 in the US at first sight, but after an ownership experience, they were ready to kill them in hatred. :mad:
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    I don't think anyone hated the Big 3 in the US at first sight, but after an ownership experience, they were ready to kill them in hatred.

    Only because they stopped making my beloved Contour :)
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