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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    your projected specs seem quite possible to me as well. How those specs. would 'devastate' the 268-270hp and 22/31-20/29 already available in the Camry and the Altima is a little far fetched.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    was under the impression that the Malibu was going to be closer to the Aura XR (in top trims). Have driven the XR, and besides liking how it looked and a general improvement in the fit/finish dept (still below Camcords, IMO), I found the 3.6 to be an apparently very solid engine. Smooth, easily revved, quiet, and good power, of course - some Nissan-like torque steer, however.
    Pontiac has always favored the 'sport' side of things so I'm not sure how the G6 is related to the XR or FTM the Malibu.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Maybe all mention of outside comments, articles and reviews should be banned. This way all of us are only voicing are opinion on the matter, there wouldn't be any facts or outside authorities to lend some credence to the discussion.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    I personally can't stand CR, and some of their opinions are so laughable that I highly doubt there's a car nut on their staff.
    I think there is no doubt that CR has its own motivations and priorities in evaluating a car - perhaps - safety, reliability, and economy, in no particular order.
    But, I also think that there is a very strong case to be made for the fact that CR (and its ratings) are likely the single most influential publication to the average car buyer. Given that and the fact that they are not beholden to anybody or anything for whatever 'opinions' they do have, you are welcome to form your own opinions and/or have a different set of priorites - as I would bet they would tell you as well.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,284
    True, the guy that bought my 50 month old 65K mile '03 Accord Coupe V6 from me told his wife "the car drives like it is brand new."

    Couldn't of said it better myself to explain how the car holds up over time. Not just drives, but looks, feels, and sounds.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,284
    True... CR's priorities are not all out performance and track speed. CR's priorities lie in ease of use, overall design quality, build quality, reliability, safety, and fuel economy. Fuel Economy could carry over to show they do look at "value" and pricing to determine a "good" deal.

    Time is money, and frequent breakdowns and warranty visits cost both time and money (the gas you waste driving to the dealership every 2 months).
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,284
    Those EPA ratings you listed for the Camry and Altima are the OLD EPA system. I said the NEW EPA mileage system, so take 10-15% off your numbers.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    I think that we are rapidly approaching the limits (from a torque perspective) of FWD platforms although a few mfgrs like Honda (in the TL-S thru throttle programming) and Toyota (in both the Avalon and Camry thru tranny gear programming) have seemed to minimize the problem. I agree with you about the winter traction benefits of having 60% of your weight over the drive wheels, but also believe as we make an inevitable switch back to RWD designs that a mass driver retraining program might be needed - there are an awful lot of folks out on our roads that have never driven anything but a FWD car.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,284
    I don't understand why everyone says CR slammed the Aura so bad. The score on MSN Auto's Consumer Reports Link shows a score of 70 which falls squarely into the "very good" category.

    It is not a low score by any stretch of the imagination.

    It just isn't up to the league of Accord, Camry, TL, Altima scores.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    no you didn't say 'new' EPA but it is something that maybe I should have assummed given the effective date of the new EPA system. 280hp and what effectively would be something like 23/34 today would be an accomplishment - guess we'll see because you are right the new Camry ratings should be in the 20/28 category.
  • jd10013jd10013 Posts: 779
    True, the guy that bought my 50 month old 65K mile '03 Accord Coupe V6 from me told his wife "the car drives like it is brand new."

    so will most cars if you take care of them. I have a 9 yr old nissan that looks and runs as well as the day I bought it. and it has 145k on it.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    True... CR's priorities are not all out performance and track speed. CR's priorities lie in ease of use, overall design quality, build quality, reliability, safety, and fuel economy. Fuel Economy could carry over to show they do look at "value" and pricing to determine a "good" deal.

    I have no problem with their product evaluations on particular vehicles where they do a full report. I like that they measure leg room and cargo and towing capacity, although that information is on the manufacturer's website :confuse: And I like how they run them into things at 5 mph to see how the bumpers hold up and what not; although that information is available from the IIHS :confuse:

    I like that they mention how requirements to install an infant or child seat. I like the subjective commentary on ease of use, although I like to evaluate on my own as well.

    I think the only thing I pretty much ignore is the survey responses for reliability and what not.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    Maybe CR also understands that 'value' may not have a whole lot to do with initial price.
    Think that you'll have a difficult time finding any of these cars these days in the shop every 2 months! Things have improved substantially in that regard in recent years, so much so that reliability over even the first 100k is assumed. It's the 2nd (or 3rd) 100k that separates the men from the boys, a number that very few of us that buy new cars will ever see.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    I think the only thing I pretty much ignore is the survey responses for reliability and what not.
    that curious, being about the only thing (other than measured performance figures) that is NOT subjective.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    actually, go back an read what I have written...when referring to something that does not exist yet, there will always be qualifiers. why? because I don't know, and I won't pretend to know more than I don't.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Car and Driver were not as impressed with the Aura's interior as some. I guess it depends on what you compare the interior to.

    "As we said, almost right, until the sponges in GM’s Cheapness Department got to the project. Although styled well, the interior is executed with hard plastic, glaring panel gaps, ragged mold lines, and the scrape-scraping of a gear selector that slides through its range like a screwdriver through sand. Have GM’s cheapness freaks ever sat in an Accord?"

    When you compare it to a real nice car, it comes up shy.
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    I agree totally with jd10013. Timely preventive maintenance, attention to detail, and lots of TLC will do wonders for extending life of a car. I have a 22 year old SAAB 900 that drives, and runs, the same as it did when I drove it off the SAAB dealer's lot in April 1985. No squeaks, no clunks, and the car handles just as well as it did on Day 1.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    until the sponges in GM’s Cheapness Department got to the project
    the enthusiast mags do have a way with words don't they? CR would say something like 'ill fitting parts and pieces, and generally 'subpar' fit and finish and probably wouldn't mention the Accord at all. Have read the same thing about the Fusion interior referencing its use of 80's vintage LED displays, an interior that I personally found agreeable and 'un-Ford-like'. Regard this kind of thing in the same way as exterior styling - beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    OT, a co-worker, after driving Camrys for the past 10 years or so, just bought a Saturn Aura XR, and hasn't stopped raving about how much BETTER it is than her previous '05 Camry

    I hope so! The Aura is new for 2006. That Camry debuted more than five years ago.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    a co-worker, after driving Camrys for the past 10 years or so, just bought a Saturn Aura XR, and hasn't stopped raving about how much BETTER it is than her previous '05 Camry
    60 hp or so will do that won't it? Also a part of human nature - your coworker WANTS to rave about something she just paid all that money for, for her own gratifications (and ego) as well as those reassurances that might come from you when you nod approvingly. This would be why those 'initial' satisfaction surveys need to be taken with a grain of salt...
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