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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,532
    > Accord I owned. She went about 170K before blowing her engine.

    The motor blew at only 170K miles? Wow. I'd have been disappointed.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    It must of been a operator error as those baby's are set up to run till the end of time. :blush: Well that's what I hear anyways from owners and fans ;)

    Rocky
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    I lean toward the Hyundai Sonata as my next sedan but this constant Fusion Accord Camry debate makes me want to drive the Fusion and see exactly why some seem to think it is not worthy. I may even go out of my way to rent one next time a rental is necessary. In that respect the Fusion Challenge seems to have prompted a response from me...is that the media doing something to get me, at least superficially, interested in the Fusion?? Nah, the media has no influence with consumers right?.
  • bv050506bv050506 Posts: 97
    I've enjoyed the banter between several of you on the Accord, Fusion, Camry. I had a 2007 Camry and it was the V-6 XLE. The 4 cylinder is a toally different car, and much less expensive. The Camry V-6 is a rcoket compared to anything in the other models. It also has a beautiful, Lexus like interior. Perhaps best of all it takes regular fuel and gets strong mileage numbers. My only problem with it was it didn't handle well, and I felt like a fuddy duddy in it. So on to the Nissan Altima and another V-6 with 270 h.p. with the SE package and far superior handling. Consumers Reports ranks it right there with the Honda and Volkswagon Passat for top honors. The 4 cylinder is very quick and also gets a strong write-up. Funny the Fusion finishes well down the list and once again Ford puts no ponies and mediocre mileage in an inferior engine. It does handle very well. I'd tell anyone to look at either the 4 or 6 in an Altima and you'll get great exceleration, good mileage, great handling, push button start and a transmission in CVT form that is extraodinary. Just weighing in on behalf of the Nissan fans.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    We get Fusion 4 cyl rentals to go from LAX up the coast to my folks place pretty regularly. I have always found them to be pretty thrifty on fuel and they seem to feel bigger on the inside then they look on the outside (which is kind of the opposite of my old Contour). It's easy to drive and has good visibility. The next trip home we will have a lot more baggage with us so we will see how the trunk does then, so far it hasn't been an issue.
    I am really leaning towards the Mazda6 right now. I made the mistake of driving a Speed6 last night, which I think is the most fun I've had in quite some time. I can't swing a new one, but it looks like Mazda 6s GTs are a pretty good deal used and reasonably easy to find in a manual transmission.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    'selling' and 'paying' takes a number of forms - think OJ Simpson.
    A lousy 23.9 mpg in a Fusion? my wife's V6 Altima has been running at 26 for 4 years now - my Avalon 27. Tell me you drive the streets of Manhattan, then maybe that 23.9 is something to crow about.
    BTW if you really want to know what Car and Driver thinks:
    http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/11106/2006-toyota-camry-xle-v-6.html
    A comparison test, not under Ford's influence, won by the Accord, of course - in which your Fusion actually did pretty well. If only they could have had that 3.5 under the hood, then, the car might really 'win' something.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    You really should grab a Fusion or Milan rental and check it out. Hertz for one has a lot of them. I thought the base Fusion (stick, no options) I drove was a very nice car even in stripped form, with a great blend of ride and handling. The stick was pretty good too. Now that the IIHS crash test scores are improved, I think the Fusion and Milan are solid offerings in this class. I haven't quite warmed up to the Gillette grille on the Fusion, so I prefer the Milan styling-wise (also because the Milan comes very well equipped even in base form, with ABS standard).
  • thenebeanthenebean Posts: 1,124
    hooray for nissan!!

    i don't have any of the cars in question, but everyone has different priorities when choosing a car. some are super brand loyal, some like power, some like handling, some like style. there is no wrong answer to what car you pick or like. i've enjoyed reading a lot of this (though i would like to see the altima mentioned more often! it too gets lost in the shuffle unfortunately).

    all i can say is there is a reason why the camry and accord are the two highest selling cars in this segment. i think that is the true sign of consumer opinion on what they think is the "best" car...

    i'd still pick the altima though over all of the other cars in this segment. i like power, i like style, and i like handling...and i like to row my own gears...

    anyways, my two cents...

    -thene :)
  • micro99micro99 Posts: 51
    it sounds to me like the Fusion Challenge mainly focussed on styling and handling---Did the survey include questions about which cars the concumers thought had the best quality/long -term reliability, or which cars would retain the most value?

    Isn`t there something to be learned from this statement ? When any of the actual current CARS are compared (styling; build quality; handling; ride quality; comfort and convenience features;safety features;acceleration;fuel economy etc.) the Accord lovers on this forum have a very hard time defending their 'best in class' arguements. So they inevitably abandon discussion of current CARS and instead revert to discussion of how the market place rated reliability and /or resale in previous years ( where the Accord does have an excellent track record).It`s hard for any competitor to come to the table with out giving it time to devlop it`s own record ! Don`t get me wrong, these are important considerations - it`s just that a singular focus on them to the exclusion of all else is, in my opinion, counter productive.
  • tallman1tallman1 Posts: 1,874
    In that respect the Fusion Challenge seems to have prompted a response from me...is that the media doing something to get me, at least superficially, interested in the Fusion??

    I think there is a difference between "media" and advertising. Yes, advertising is delivered through different media but I think that when someone here complains about the media giving preferential treatment to a particular car model, he or she means the journalists reporting about the cars. The complaint is about a perceived bias toward that car.

    Advertising is very biased. That's kind of the point, isn't it? ;)

    So the Fusion Challenge is an example of good advertising because it gets people to consider a car that they might not have, not an example of unbiased media.
  • 03accordman03accordman Posts: 671
    "I too loved the 1977 Accord I owned. She went about 170K before blowing her engine. I then bought a brand new 1991 Accord - expecting the same kind of reliability. I swapped it for a Dodge at 20K miles because it was constantly in the shop, and, was a bottomless money pit"

    That must have been really disappointing; expecially with your good experience with the earlier Accord (though I would say 170k for the motor is pretty low). Didn't the warranty cover the expenses while you were getting it fixed, since you had only 20k miles on it?
  • 03accordman03accordman Posts: 671
    "Please, Please read this whole comparison. The event was paid for by Ford but Hosted by Car and Driver a non bias mediator. I can completly understand if Ford had paid these people or they were all Ford employees. The Accord did not win, the Fusion did. The Fusion was chosen by the consumer not an "expert". This goes to show ya! Don't always believe what you read"

    Scape, this post is confusing. Are we supposed to believe what we read, or not? First you say look at the Fusion challenge, then you say don't always believe what you read. Does that mean we should only believe when the article picks a Fusion over other cars, that too in an advertisment?
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    I too loved the 1977 Accord I owned. She went about 170K before blowing her engine.

    Actually I found it wasn't a mechanical issue that killed those, it was the shock towers rusting out and the car collapsing. And this was in California.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Let's go with the "Don't always believe what you read", good advice wherever you go. ;)

    Let's drop this circular conversation about that particular comparison. It was what it was and there really isn't anything left to say about it that hasn't already been said - over and over and then again some more!

    Let's move on! :)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    When any of the actual current CARS are compared (styling; build quality; handling; ride quality; comfort and convenience features;safety features;acceleration;fuel economy etc.) the Accord lovers on this forum have a very hard time defending their 'best in class' arguements.

    Car and Driver didn't have a hard time defending the 2007 Accord as best-in-class against all new-for-2007 models. It was certainly best in class for my dollar as well, and that's all that needs to be said on my part. Analyzing forum posts is something that the host doesn't take kindly to.
  • I drove an Altima was it was pretty good, The Camry seemed to heavy and cumbersome to me. I am an old hot rodder and have had couple of sports cars too. I had to find a quick, agile, 4 door that would make me proud in the stop-light grand prix.
    I got a sedan that does 0-60 in 5.9, shift when I want, with leather and a sun roof for under 26K
    Saturn Aura XR. Out handles the Camry and beats the Altima to 60, 80, 1/4mi, and 100.
    Can you tell I love my XR?
    The underdog that took Car of the Year. Saturn is leading GM into the next generation of automobiles with European styling .
  • 03accordman03accordman Posts: 671
    I think the best decision GM has taken in the recent years is to get the Euro Opels here and sell them as Saturns. The Aura is a strong contender and I have only heard good things about, expecially with the 3.6.

    I haven't been inside one yet; but externally it sure looks very nice. One of these days I am going to check it out.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "You are contradicting what you said just two posts ago, when you said Ford paid for the entire event. Ford paid for the whole "SETUP" including the people running the comparison. If that's not bias, what is? "

    You are good at mixing words here. Just read the comparison. Ford did pay for it, Car and Driver Hosted it, consumers came to it.. geese.. :sick:
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "Everything I've read about that "test" has made me very skeptical. Ford paying, the way the questions were asked, the fact that the Fusion was AWD and the Camry and Accord were FWD"

    So, I guess the Camry/Accord having stability control has no merrit? What do you mean? how Ford paying the way questions were asked?? this makes no sense?? Car and Driver was there asking the questions.. The fact that an AWD Fusion can be had for the same price.. and offer more for your dollar is a bad thing?? :confuse: These were comparable vehicles. Read the article again.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Once again, you don't seem to get it. This was not "under Fords influence". It was everyday consumers. Why wasn't the Car and Driver comparo "influenced then? because the Toyota won? Once again, what makes this C/D comparo so significant is that the people are everyday consumers, not media, not a car magazine "expert".
    You also missed my saying my MPG has been going up steadily. It has gond from 23.4 to 23.9 and is on a steady trend up. We can talk all day about V6's and this HP war with family sedans. Kind of like my Dad is bigger than your Dad. The fact is most of this HP war is all bragging rights. And last I read is Nissan now has the bragging rights ;)
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    Actually, I consider this forum a form of media..no? This forum and its unrelenting debate of the legitimacy of that Challange test is what I meant when I said that. The actual commercial itself has prompted intense debate here and in a backhanded sort of way that debate interested me in trying the car..research prompted by media.
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    bv050506 wrote: " . . . push button start . . ." I certainly wouldn't buy a car because it has a push button to start the car. It certainly proves that everything of this nature is cyclical. In fact, the car in which I learned to drive, had a push button start on the dash - a 1951 Ford Custom 2-door! And, the 1950 Ford pick-up's starter was a "large" push button on the floor board. The more things change, the more they stay the same!
  • Hey! Push button start is cool! Especially when it is on my Auras key-fob
  • thenebeanthenebean Posts: 1,124
    sounds like a very nice car :)

    saw the opel version when i was in greece last year - i was hoping we'd end up with one of those for a rental...no luck!

    enjoy your aura!!

    -thene :)
  • tallman1tallman1 Posts: 1,874
    You need to look where I put the comma so that it would make sense to you.

    I've got lots more to say based on all that I've read but our good host has said we are done with this discussion and I wholeheartedly agree. :sick:
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    oh no, I 'get it' exactly for what it is - horse puckey! The same magazine that you like the results from when Ford pays for it, comes up with a different result when Ford doesn't - and you don't think Ford paying for the test (and stacking the deck) had anything to do with the results? I give up - believe what you wish - but I do have some swampland in Phoenix.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    Has anyone used the OEM (not the lil wire hanging out of your tape deck to your iPod, not the thing that makes it play on FM, and not the aftermarket adapters) integrated iPod player unit on any of the cars in this class?
    I believe the Nissan with the bazilion dollar technology pkg has Bluetooth hands free. Is that an option on any of the other vehicles?
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Let's move past the comparison that Ford paid for, that the Fusion won, that regular people decided, or however that went.

    We have wasted way too much bandwith arguing about it and I'm sure we can find other subjects to, um, banter about. :)

    Move on please...
  • tncarmantncarman Posts: 82
    Isn't it ironic, that even though the Toyota Camry is the lowest Consumer Rated midsize sedan on this site, that it still sells more and now Toyota is the biggest car co.?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Well, out of 450,000 Camry owners, I'd say 300 people surveyed allows for a pretty large margin of error. That goes for any of the consumers surveyed for any of the cars.

    I'm not a Camry advocate, by any means, as I've never owned a Toyota (they're too boring for my tastes).
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