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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "There are a couple posters here who still insist than anything other than Accord or Camry are junk."

    That's not exactly the way I think. I'm not interested in purchasing/leasing any other car in this segment for one reason or another, other than an Accord.

    That's different than saying they are all junk.
  • mz3smz3s Posts: 17
    Yes, you can find a Honda broken down in a garage, but it's a one in a million shot.

    Not too sure about that... My buddy's 02 Accord EX-V6(Please die already) Died while driving - bad tranny. Rebuilt it (at his expense). Died again. New tranny (again, his expense) and it's slipping already. 68k miles. Please die already. And the sad thing is that he wants the 08 Accord.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,048
    I have a friend who bought new in 2002 Camry XLE I4 auto and replaced the Toyota emblem on hood at about 5000, the water pump at about 18000, driver-side door stripping at about 25,000 and now has a rubbing sound from steering mechanism at about 50,000. I know there has been a couple of other repairs but I can't remember what they were. Point is, it has been a good car but it's not perfect.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    The question is does he say something like his car has been reliable, except for a couple minor transmission problems? :) ;)
  • bristol2bristol2 Posts: 736
    Except for horrific 14.8 mpg in-city gas mileage, our 2007 SEL AWD V6 Fusion has been perfect for nine months and 4,321 miles.

    I looked at Fusions when I was buying last year and only barely chose an Accord. I think the Fusions are good looking cars with good content.

    I am blown away by the mileage you report though.

    You are getting similar mileage to a full-size SUV out of a mid-size sedan. I would not be happy with that by any means.

    Do you expect it to improve? If not why stay in a sedan at all when you can get twice the space with the same mileage in something bigger?
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    $28/year sounds really cheap for ANY option from an Insurance company, you sure that's not based on a 1990 Kia Sephia?

    What if you have zero down on a 72 month loan on a new BMW 335i? I'm fully aware GAP has nothing to do with reliability, but covers the amount you owe vs. what your car is worth. GAP ceases to be useful if you stick to cars that have great resale and don't buy with no money down. Cars that have great resale TEND to be, and USUALLY are very reliable, so they are inherently indirectly related.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    Boz (urnews) only drives very short trips with lots of stop-n-go. It's not the vehicle in this case - it's the driving. So while an I4 would help he'll never hit the EPA mileage estimates.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    That's not exactly the way I think

    It may not be the way you think but it's certainly the way you type.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    If you looked at why the service shop is so full of Honda's, you'd see they are all there for oil changes and other regular maintenance.
  • our 2007 SEL AWD V6 Fusion has been perfect for nine months and 4,321 miles

    Jeez - I hope so. 4321 miles in 9 months? I do that in 2 months easy.

    The 2 Fusions I test drove just seemed adequate whereas Accords and the new Sonata were at a different level altogether.

    And what's with the funky turn signal stalk at 10:00 on the Fusion? Weird.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    I am blown away by the mileage you report though.

    You are getting similar mileage to a full-size SUV out of a mid-size sedan. I would not be happy with that by any means.

    Do you expect it to improve? If not why stay in a sedan at all when you can get twice the space with the same mileage in something bigger?


    The mileage culprit, I believe, is the all-wheel drive and the type of driving, as Allen Kirky noted. Even our 2000 2.0-liter, 4-cylinder, automatic transmission Ford Focus station wagon only averages 17-19 mpg over the same route.

    But I certainly agree that 14.8 mpg is the pits for a mid-size sedan. It does yield 24-24 mpg on trips however and the revised EPA estimate for this drive train is 17 mpg city and 24 mpg highway.

    We really like everything about the vehicle except for the poor gas mileage. If I'd had any inkling whatsoever that the mileage was going to be this bad I would have bought something else.

    A mid-size sedan is plenty large enough for our purposes (and most people's). In retrospect, a 4-cylinder engine would have been a better choice. It might not have equaled the EPA estimate in our driving circumstances but it would certainly do better than the 14.8 we are constantly getting.

    Since we have 4,300 miles on the car, I don't expect any improvement either. It's a bitter pill but it is still a fine automobile otherwise.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    The 2 Fusions I test drove just seemed adequate whereas Accords and the new Sonata were at a different level altogether.

    And what's with the funky turn signal stalk at 10:00 on the Fusion? Weird.


    We didn't test drive an Accord or Sonata. Considered the Accord to be too expensive. Same dealer sells them both in our burg and we liked our Ford, Lincoln, Mercury dealer (Sherwood of Salisbury) better.

    Wife also wanted a Mustang (not practical) but was willing to settle for a Fusion. You know how that goes. Plus, styling was a big factor. We both liked the looks of the Fusion better than the other mid-size sedans.

    Yeah, the 10 o'clock turn signal stalk was a bit weird at first but we like it now.

    So, what did you buy, an Accord or a Sonata? How do you like it?
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    If I'd had any inkling whatsoever that the mileage was going to be this bad...

    Well...sorry, but I'd have to say that getting 17-19 mpg in a 2.0-liter, 4-cylinder, automatic transmission Ford Focus station wagon should have given you more than an inkling of what to expect in a V6 AWD Fusion. Your Focus Wagon would have had about 26 city listed on the sticker and you were getting 17-19.

    The Fusion had 19 city on the sticker, you should reasonably have expected to get 7-9 mpg less or alternatively you should have expected about 70% of that figure, based on your Focus. Those expectations would have led you to expect maybe 13 mpg at best. You should be actually be happy that your Fusion is doing better than the Focus relative to its EPA rating
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    I have to agree with you 100% here. If you have already owned a Ford and it delivered poor gas mileage under the old EPA rating, and then you went out and bought another Ford, you should have known there was a strong liklihood of repeat poor performance.

    You don't buy Ford's to get good gas mileage.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    But much more importantly, how long have those 25 year Ohio (has it really been that long?) Honda workers been building V6 Accords? Or even better still, V6 Accords with more than 200 HP?
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    Ever stop to think that maybe the transmission mechanic he's going to is incompetent? Not Honda's fault at all (except the initial tranny).
  • "Not too sure about that... My buddy's 02 Accord EX-V6(Please die already) Died while driving - bad tranny. Rebuilt it (at his expense). Died again. New tranny (again, his expense) and it's slipping already. 68k miles. Please die already. And the sad thing is that he wants the 08 Accord:"

    Honda extended the transmission warranty on all 1998-2002 Accords to 100k miles; why did he pay out of pocket? Sounds suspicious; not that it didn't happen, but that he had to pay for it.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Well I happen not to think highly of Nissan, Saturn, Ford, Kia, Hyundai or Mazda. If it shows in my typing then I'm being honest. I've had bad experiences with Nissan and Ford, I don't believe though, I called them junk.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    You know andres, you'd avoid a lot of heat if you didn't make such broad stroke statements like "all Hondas in a shop are there for other maintenance."

    It's not true buddy, I'm sorry. I'm beginning to wonder if you are actually serious about some of the statements you post, or if you are just trying to incite a riot (of laughter).

    I'm from a full-blooded Honda family (one grandmother has a 97 Civic LX, the other an '02 Accord LX, my mom and dad have an '07 Civic EX, my great aunt has an '05 Odyssey EX, and I have two Accords.

    Guess what? Hondas CAN have problems, just like Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Ford, etc... They AREN'T all in for maintenance. My grandparents just had their alternator replaced at 110,000 miles on the Civic, and my 1996 had an emissions recall performed at 88,000 miles because it caused 02 sensors to go bad. Our 2000 Odyssey had more rattles than any vehicle I've ridden in, and my dad's 2003 Accord had to have the headliner replaced in order to fix a rattle; not to mention the LCD display failure at 30k miles.

    Hondas are wonderful cars, but its competitors can be just as wonderful if you prefer their characteristics. I just happen to like Honda's attributes and "better than average" reliability. If I wanted perfect reliability, I'd have to walk, and even then my bad knee would probably put me down to "average" :)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    You don't buy Ford's to get good gas mileage.

    oh COME ON man!

    It's obvious that his route is the culprit of his poor mileage. You are taking every opporutnity to make an invalid argument against Ford (or, in simpler terms - BASH).

    I dont have a Ford, I don't plan on buying one soon, but this is getting CRAZY.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    I don't think I was out of line, Ford has never been known to get good gas mileage. Honda and Toyota have always been known for that.

    His mileage is POORER than normal due to his driving habits/route, but I guarantee you if he had the V6 Accord he could floor it everywhere he ever went at every stoplight, and he'd probably get the same mileage, if not better.

    I've never owned a Ford, but my impression from other's Fords, my friends Ford from a while back, a really old Escort, and other friends of friends is that they are junk; except of course, there stuff from maybe the last 2 years.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    No one is saying Honda's are perfect (especially the USA built ones) but they are really good, far above average.

    And not only that, the problems you have (even as you describe with your family and friends) are all very minor both in hassle and cost (trust me on this).

    One question: how many times have you called a tow truck in to move your Hondas?
  • ergsumergsum Posts: 144
    I don't mean to throw fuel on any particular fire, but here is an interesting article I found out of curiosity comparing warranty costs from the larger manufacturers. The numbers are not broken down on a per vehicle basis. One would have to determine the approximate number of vehicles still under warranty coverage per manufacturer during the the period in question.

    http://www.financialweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070820/REG/70817026/10- 36
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    A very interesting article, ergsum. Thanks for the link.
  • jd10013jd10013 Posts: 779
    Its much more than one in a million, my offer still stands, I'll take you around some garages show you reality.
  • jd10013jd10013 Posts: 779

    It's not true buddy, I'm sorry. I'm beginning to wonder if you are actually serious about some of the statements you post, or if you are just trying to incite a riot (of laughter).


    I think its the latter, but everybody understands that by now. But your point is right on grad. I had a sentra go 220k with no work, have a 200sx with 147k thats never needed fixed, and thats the reason I bought my alti. But, I know nissan's break down, I've seen plenty in shops and being towed, and once in awhile one on the road. It's one of the reasons I've come to believe most cars are built of fairly equal quality. They just need to be taken care of. Treat your baby right, and she'll treat you right. It's worked for me over 3 nissan's, 1 honda, and about 500k miles.
  • neteng101neteng101 Posts: 176
    The '02s were know to have issues with their tranny. Its likely that the tranny in the '08 Accords will be fine as its nothing new. The VCM V6 though is something I would be concerned about.

    Now if one wants the crown jewel of 4-cylinder motivated sedans, then one needs to look no further, this is Honda territory all the way.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Hondas are wonderful cars, but its competitors can be just as wonderful if you prefer their characteristics.

    Great observation. Sometimes we lose sight of the point that each buyer must choose the car that fits his or her needs, not our personal criteria. So while an Accord, Camry, Mazda6, Sonata et. al. may be just the right car for you or me, it won't be right for everyone. If we would all respect each other's choices this discussion (and the world maybe) would be a better place.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,776
    Yeah, the 10 o'clock turn signal stalk was a bit weird at first but we like it now.

    This is from the company that in the 1980's put the horn on the turn signal.
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