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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    You do know that the auto climate control works just like the A/C in your house right?

    As matter of fact it's even better. The house A/C unit has to be manually switched from cool to heat but the one in the car is fully automated.

    72 degree means 72 degrees all year long...

    Can't get better than that.
  • mz3smz3s Posts: 17
    Get into your car after its been in the sun in 95 degree heat. Turn the a/c on auto and tell me if it blows 72. Its never been my experience that it will blow 72 if you hit auto. Now, if you press the button or turn the knob to 72 that's a different story. But can't you get that with a knob? :confuse:

    No hate, I dont have auto a/c in my car but if it comes with it next time I won't be complaining.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I’m not sure what you’re complaining about, but how is auto blowing in your face worse than manual ac blowing in your face? Besides a simple solution that involves positioning the vent away from your face, auto is designed to maintain a set temperature. I prefer 78 degrees at home and in my car, and that is where I prefer to leave it.

    With manual AC, you have to change the settings frequently. With auto, the system keeps it steady. When at home, do you prefer to have the thermostat in “auto” or “manual” mode?

    I don’t know about the new Accord, but the auto climate control in my Acura TL goes a step further (actually couple of steps further, but I will talk about only one that relates to the topic). It uses GPS to automatically control temperature, depending on the position of the sun relative to the car. And there is no blowing in the face. Besides, you can select the vents too, independently on both sides (the dual mode feature, in addition to dual zone), and if you still prefer manual, hit that AC button, adjust the fan speed and voila!
  • I don’t know about the new Accord, but the auto climate control in my Acura TL goes a step further (actually couple of steps further, but I will talk about only one that relates to the topic). It uses GPS to automatically control temperature, depending on the position of the sun relative to the car.

    Every other vehicle uses a much simpler sunload sensor that measures the sunlight actually hitting the driver and passenger of the vehicle. Instead of using satellites to coordinate the position of the vehicle on the earth, the other vehicles measure the amount of sun on the occupants and adjust accordingly. Amazing technology :P
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    The most intelligently and user friendly dash design IMO is in 1998-2002 Accord (EX models). It is high enough to still have the road in view even when operating the lowest buttons. Controls are grouped by function and an impressively symmetrical design with clearly identified center. While not the best angle, this picture demonstrates a part of it.
    image

    The center is the preset button “2”. It has a small notch (like “J” and “F” keys on computer’s keyboard). Above the audio controls is buttons/dials for AC. Fan speed dial to the left, temperature control dial to the right and ac/vent control buttons in the middle.

    The quality of material used is impressive, and even after 10 years/181K miles of use, the markings are still intact. They operate with same precision that they did with 4 miles on the odometer.

    But, I won’t compare newer models to the old in terms of design. The basic idea of grouping buttons, and laying them out hasn’t changed at Honda. There are a few more buttons but that is also because there are a whole lot of new features. My 1998 Accord EX-L came with only a CD player and manual AC. Now we’re talking MP3, CD changer, dual zone climate control, navigation system…

    The only way to reduce the number of buttons is go the i-Drive way. I say a big NO to it. Reminds me of a quote by Einstein:
    “Things should be made simple, but not simpler”.

    Honda’s layout generally requires a quick glance to reach out for a defined function. And in some cases (as in my Accord), most of them can be operated without requiring a glance. When I see people complain about Accord’s dash, I just shake my head in disbelief.

    OTOH, the dash in my TL is confusing. Fortunately, I have other options to operate virtually everything (touch screen, steering wheel controls and voice controls). I'm not a big fan of MDX's layout either. It looks good, but everything is squeezed in a small space.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    Doesn't the Auto Climate Control adjust for the varying temperature?

    Yes, but if the temp changes outside you may want to change it depending on the system. The auto HVAC in my Mazda6 needed constant adjustment. It was by far the most finickey system I've ever encountered. All most of those things do is cycle hear or A/C and fan speed. If your body temp is warmer or cooler one day or the next you'll want to adjust it. At least I always did.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Non-NAV TL might be using that technology, but there must be something more to it than simply sensing the sun to be overhead or on the side. Perhaps greater precision (if it matters). :)
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    Every other vehicle uses a much simpler sunload sensor that measures the sunlight actually hitting the driver and passenger of the vehicle.

    Right, but the position of that and the actual temp sensor varies from car to car. I found that the sensors in the Mazda6 I owned weren't nearly as accurate as those in my dad's 87 Taurus, '96 Sable, and '06 Zephyr. All three of those did an excellent job of keeping the cabin comfy. I had to adjust the one in the 6 quite often and others on the Mazda6 thread would agree with me. We had a long discussion about it over there a while ago. Hopefully they change how that all works for the '09 model.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I haven't had to change temperature on my side in months. The passenger side does get changed frequently. And since the settings are tied to memory, even if a friend of mine (or service folks) changed temp on my side, it goes back to my setting everytime I unlock the door with my primary key.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    The only way to reduce the number of buttons is go the i-Drive way.

    Touch screen will accomplish the same task too.

    I'll take touch screen over joystick/i-Drive in any given day.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    It can be much easier than a touch screen. Many cars today use HVAC controls with 3 rotary knobs: mode, fan, and temp. And usually they have at the center of the dials push buttons for recirc and A/C. I find those controls intuitive and extremely easy to use, even with gloves on. They aren't as flashy as a touch screen and they don't cover a center console with a bunch of buttons, but they just plain work.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    3 rotary knobs ain't going to cut it with navigation system.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    I use the AAA folding paper system. ;)
    L
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Don't see it as all that great, though it has a coolness factor... well at least the first year it did. Guess it wouldn't hurt to have it.

    Now the yellow running lights, down low, like on the Corvettes C5 or the Camaro, was a great idea. Have all the cars use yellow, and placed down low and wide apart in the front of the car. Do away with headlamp running lights. L
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    I really like the auto climate control. I usually set mine for 78*. Although, at this time of year, in the afternoon I'll often "up it" to 80*, just to keep the A/C from coming on. I don't need heat, but the A/C is just a bit cooler than I'd like on this less than 4 miles ride.

    A week and a half ago I started out at 7:30 AM to pick up a buddy to play golf. Temp was set at 78* and was giving heat for a while (not blasting it). When I picked him up we were on the road about 8:15 with about an hour and a half to go to the course we were playing. Sometime during that hour and a half the climate control gradually changed over from heat to A/C automatically, without having to touch any dials or settings. That's the beauty of climate control, it maintains a (nearly) constant temperature, once the engine is warmed up, without the occupants having to make periodic adjustments. (It's like Goldilocks, not too hot or too cold.)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    Seems to work just fine with my nav system--eyes and brain. :) And then there are the voice-controlled nav systems--look ma, no hands!
  • Yeah, the thing to understand is that when you set the temp for, say, 68, auto climate systems don't blow 68 degree air, they blow whatever temp you need so that the cabin is 68 degrees. In the summer, that's ac, in the winter thats heat.

    In my 2007 Camry Hybrid with plasmacluster, the system works great. We will never buy a car without it. I had it on my 02 Intrigue as well--the TCH system, not surprisingly, is better. You can still switch between recirc and outside air, so that can temper the veracity of the heating and cooling if you want.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    There is a problem with touch screen. You have to look at it. Many times with buttons, you can get away without having to look for it. Besides, touch screen is a two step process. First, you must activate the screen via a button (so you need one anyway). For example, in my TL, if I wanted to play the third disc, I have following options:
    1. Use voice commands "DVD Play Disc Three"
    2. Press disc selection button (button 3 for third disc)
    3. Press "Audio" button
    Touch "Disc 3" on the screen

    So, while touch screen provides a visual for a quick glance, it also requires a glance and a two step process. Selecting the button 3 requires a glance (and if the button is placed well, then a glance may not be needed, like in the new Accord... just find the third button and press it).

    With something like i-Drive, there is absolutely no way to do things without taking the eyes off. Voice commands is the best way.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I'm not a fan of rotary dials for climate control selections. It is okay for fan speed control but I don't like it for mode or temperature control (especially with auto climate). I guess I'm a digital age guy. As for modes, I find this set up extremely convenient... just point and shoot.

    image

    In fact, I usually don't have to take my eyes off the road to operate this in my Accord. However, in the TL, if I were to fiddle with vents (which I don't), it will be a pain since it cycles thru selection which will require taking eyes off the road. But then, it does offer voice controls as well so cycling isn't needed.
  • Voice is great for certain things, very short commands, or things that save a visual search through a menu structure. That is one of the reasons its great for phone dialing...Call Bob is better than searching through all the names to find Bob, selecting it, and then having it dial.
    For tuning the radio, with direct presets its easier to reach over and push "1", unless its a touch screen because as Robert pointed out, you have to look. Someone at VTTI did a dissertation on how long it takes to perform all these in-vehicle tasks using different methods. I will post the link if I can find it.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    That's not bad, but its eight controls vs. five and depending on how small/flush/packed the buttons are, hard to work with gloves/mittens on. The top row appears to be a little tightly packed, for example.

    Edit: I miscounted, ten controls vs. six (forgot temp and fan controls).
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I've never had problem using those with gloves. Each of those buttons is large, an inch wide by 3/4 inch high.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    My 92 Accord had the buttons in the picture, and they were much better than the old slide levers (remember those?). The cycling isn't really a problem in the 03 Accord, because I will do that before getting on the road. Don't usually have to change it after that.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    At first glance those buttons for mode seem like they would be better than a rotary dial. I wonder how they are to operate with winter gloves on though?

    I don't think I'd like auto climate, as I do like cold air blowing in my face at times and hot air blowing on my feet at other times :). I can see where digital settings might work better for auto climate temp setting, though. With manual, I think a dial or slider for temp is better.

    For fan speed, I can't think of anything that would be better than the rotary dial.
  • Isn't the 2006-2008 Sonata ranked in the Large car catagory? And the 2008 Accord as well?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    Yes, both sneak into the EPA's large car category by interior volume.

    But then, some compact cars like the Elantra, Sentra, and Versa are considered "mid-sized" cars by the EPA based on interior volume.

    So it gets confusing. But lots of choices for people looking for a "mid-sized" sedan, depending on what they mean by "mid-sized". For me, the smaller the car is on the outside and bigger it is on the inside, the better I like it. So cars like the Versa hatchback, the Fit, the Elantra, the Sonata, and the MPV (RIP) appeal to me.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Yes, both sneak into the EPA's large car category by interior volume.

    Accord with a sunroof is still midsize.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    Accord LX with a full-sized Kleenex box in it is mid-sized too. ;)

    I was thinking that the 2008 Accord is probably one of the worst uses of extra size I've seen in a car. Consider that the sedan is 3 inches longer (to 194.1") and the wheelbase is 2.3 inches longer, and yet there is only 0.3" more overall leg room (+0.4" in back, -0.1" in front). And the trunk is only 14 cubic feet, less than in some compact sedans. Where did all that extra length go? At least the interior width is up by 1.5" with only a 1.1" increase in exterior width, and the front passengers get 1" more headroom from the 0.9" increase in height (no change for the rear).
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Comfort is more important than actual inches. Reviewers have commented that the interior is more comfortable as spacious. :confuse: Did an Accord run over your puppy?
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    Perhaps the ultra powerful large 3.5L V6 takes more room up than the ultra powerful smaller 3.0L V6?
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