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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • bv050506bv050506 Posts: 97
    I didn't challenge your numbers about the Aura XR being quicker than the new Altima V-6 until I had a chance to get the real numbers. Your statement is not correct, and in fact the Altima waxes your Aura in every category, 0-60, 45-65 passing, and the quarter mile. Information as provided by Consumers Reports. It didn't stop as well, has a smaller interior, much smaller trunk, and was said to have a cheap interior. It was slower in the slalom. I couldn't find any reason other than standard stability control, an option on the Altima that your car was better. It was less expensive by about $1,500. I know you love your car, and I am happy for you, as I said earlier the Aura is a fine car. But it doesn't stack up to the new Altima by the numbers as you suggested. Enjoy your ride!
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Taurus to Fusion (as the mainstream family car offering)
    Five Hundred to Taurus (as the full-size upscale offering)
    Escort to Focus (as the compact offering)
    Windstar to Freestar (as the minivan offering)


    I don't know whether the Taurus was replaced by the Fusion or the 500, but they had to have new names because they overlapped. The Taurus, Fusion, and 500 were all being sold at the same time. There are 2006s and 2007s of all three of them. Same goes for Escort and Focus which overlapped around 2000, IIRC.

    FWIW, My opinion is the Fusion was the replacement of the Contour and the 500 replaces the Taurus. Just like other manufacturers, each model gets bigger.

    The Freestar name was perhaps mainly because they were on a (silly) mission to have (almost) all cars names start with "F" (with the exception of Mustang).
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    First you say you would not call it an advanced timing maneuver, then you describe exactly what I meant by the phrase.

    Just to clarify and not to extend the debate...what I meant was that all I was describing is the proper way to pass.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    Carresida - Avalon
    Corona - vaporized
    Celica - vaporized
    MR2 - vaporized
    Carina - vaporized
    Starlet - vaporized

    210 - vaporzied
    510 - vaporized
    610 - vaporized
    Original BRAND NAME - DATSUN - vaporized

    Maybe its not just Ford that does this, eh?

    Honda can't do this because they aren't original enough to come up with any names, look at what happened when they renamed everything in the Acura line.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    keep in mind the 95 Accord a much much lighter and smaller car.

    So what :confuse: The acceleration times of the V6s of a decade ago are about where the 4 cylinders are today, despite the increased weight.

    So we can baseline that 9s+ 0-60 and convince ourselves that that must be good

    No, we can say today's 4 cylinders are surely more than adequate, since the performance figures are about equal to many V6s from about 10 years ago, which are still on the roads today.

    Still waiting for any evidence (not anecdotes, please) that a V6 improves safety. Statistics? Insurance discounts? IIHS report? ...Anything?
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Good work.

    How about Stanza?

    Actually Honda has done it, too...Prelude, Passport.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Since when does being the quickest equate to being the best anyway? If we all wanted the quickest then we'd all have Mustang GTs. Also high horsepower (say over 260) in a FWD car is not such a good thing considering torque steer.

    My survey of the Altima vs the Aura puts me in the Altima side of the aisle. Much more confident fit and finish. Let's see how the Aura stacks up with 80,000 miles on it.

    I get a kick out of how these newcomers get anointed status of being great and the paint isn't even dry on them.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    My survey of the Altima vs the Aura puts me in the Altima side of the aisle. Much more confident fit and finish. Let's see how the Aura stacks up with 80,000 miles on it.

    Relative to a French car being sold by a Japanese company pushing new/not totally proven technology (CVTs)with a Jack Nasser-esqe CEO? I think its pretty close to a toss up.
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    So, you can't see a passing maneuver that close making a difference? I live in Pa where the state had a program (passion) to remove as many former passing zones on the rural two lane roads as possible a few years ago. In fact this is still ongoing. But, throw in a limited number of legal passing zones with curves, or slight rises at the end of them, motorists who inevitably speed up from 45mph to 60 in a passing zone only to slow back down at the end of it, farm tractors using public roads to get from field to field, coal and garbage hauling trucks getting paid by the load (speeding excessively) believe me any time saved by a quicker pass time (less exposure in the passing lane) is greatly appreciated...
  • jd10013jd10013 Posts: 779
    and don't forget the del sol. the difference with ford is, they do it to popular branded names like taurus, escort. even the probe was meant to replace the mustang. You don't see honda getting rid of the accord, or toyota the camry, or nissan the sentra.

    and I wouldn't realy consider datsun a company. it was just the name nissan marketed their US cars as when they first entered the US. And going by that, there was also
    Geo, plymoth, and oldsmobile
  • jd10013jd10013 Posts: 779
    The one problem I have with the saturn line is the the dent resistant body pannels. they achieve that by essentialy making them all out of plastic. If you got into an accident in one it would probaly shatter into a million pices. I deffinitly prefer sheet metal on my fenders and door pannels.

    and the cvt is neither new nor unproven. Nissan was just the first to start mass producing them for thier vehicles
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    and don't forget the del sol. the difference with ford is, they do it to popular branded names like taurus, escort. even the probe was meant to replace the mustang. You don't see honda getting rid of the accord, or toyota the camry, or nissan the sentra.

    That is a valid point, I think it has to do with corporate cultures though. Back in the day, domestic manufacturers used to shift model names and trim levels around annually, as a sign of progress. The Japanese makers seem to hold on to names much longer (the 70s Civic isn't real related to today's Civic, etc).
    And not all domestic makers do that, you can still buy a Malibu.

    and I wouldn't realy consider datsun a company. it was just the name nissan marketed their US cars as when they first entered the US.

    Yeah, thats exactly my point, they changed the name but not much else. They didn't change anything about the company but the name. Kind of like the 500 to Taurus thing.

    And going by that, there was also Geo, plymoth, and oldsmobile

    I think retired/out of business names of OEMs are different than names that were changed. Geo turned back into Chevy, so that is similar to the Datsun/Nissan thing, but Plymouth, Oldsmobile, Studebaker, Hudson, etc. went out of business, so that is different.

    I think there will be another category for the companies that went out of business entirely and the name got bought (MG) or ones that just got bought out (Chrysler). This is probably a discussion for another forum though.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    The one problem I have with the Saturn line is the the dent resistant body panels. they achieve that by essentially making them all out of plastic. If you got into an accident in one it would probably shatter into a million pieces. I definitely prefer sheet metal on my fenders and door panels.

    If you knew the thickness of that sheet metal and aluminum, you would realize that its not providing much in the way of protection. The frame and side-impact door beams are providing the integrity. Also the reason you get door dings and what not is because the sheet metal is so thin.
    The manufacturing process for the plastic panels is still kind of pricey, I believe even Saturn is going away from that.

    and the cvt is neither new nor unproven. Nissan was just the first to start mass producing them for thier vehicles

    Actually, Subaru was, and it didn't go so well. Then Saturn tried and it didn't go so well either. I will give it a while, although honestly, my personal preference is a manual transmission anyway.
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    Correct the Subaru Justy was a 3 cylinder sub-compact marketed before they were generally accepted due to todays high gas prices. This was 1988 or so. It used a CVT transmission (optional) and had a manual 4 speed standard. I'm not sure the transmission itself contributed that much to its ultimate failure however or if it was the overall package...wrong time. It was even available with 4WD and I still see a few around..those that didn't disintegrate due to rust. I test drove one in the day and it wasn't too bad.
  • jd10013jd10013 Posts: 779
    It's not about safety. It's just that all that plastic give it a flimsy, kind of cheap feel to it. But don't get the wrong idea, I have nothing against saturn. I just can't get past that "flimsy" feel to it.

    and i believe saturn still uses a CVT it its vue. But it's nothing revolutionary. I think the concept first appeared a long time ago. the actual design is much simpler than a standard automatic transmission. From what I've read about them, the biggest obstacle was finding a suitable belt that could withstand the torque.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    the CVT really pioneered/mass produced by a Scandavian co. called DAF starting back in the late 50s? Used 'real' rubber bands if I recall correctly, in some vey small low HP applications. Also, test drove the new Altima and found it extraordinarily smooth with less torque steer than my wife's 03 V6, if somewhat disconcerting. I guess we'll see how the market accepts them, it does kinda redefine the driving experience - would imagine that some folks won't like it.
  • thenebeanthenebean Posts: 1,124
    a few notes with regards to the CVT - Audi has also used them, and Nissan had been using them for 10 years before they put one in the Murano (the first US offering with the CVT for nissan - which has done very well may i add)

    CVT's are great for people who get carsick. without the shift shock, people's stomachs dont get upset and people don't get as nauseated. my mom has a murano, and used to never be able to ride in the back seat of a car because she gets sick. not only can she ride in the back seat of the murano, she can read a book while she's sitting back there as well...thats huge progress for someone who gets car sick!

    just some thoughts :)

    -thene
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    Yeah I think Nissan has the best implementation of a CVT on the market right now. I drove an Altima 2.5 and thought it was very responsive to throttle. If I wanted a CVT I would think about that one.
    I still can't get the MazdaSpeed6 out of my head. That was the most fun I've had in a long time. Its biggest drawback is the 93 octane fuel requirement; I'm sure they could make it run on 91, but it wouldn't be as fun.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    It requires 93? What about the areas where 93 isn't readily available?

    I always thought cars requiring "premium" took 91 octane, like our Odyssey did.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    Yeah I think Nissan has the best implementation of a CVT on the market right now
    agreed, seems to be the one out there that can 'put up' with the HP and torque of the modern engines. Still have my doubts however about the long term durabilities of 270hp 4 bangers.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,711
    when my wife and I traded in our '01 Kia Sportage 4X4 in on a 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS. It's funny because I was a staunch supporter of manual tranny's and defended their continued usage in light of the CVT's and paddle-shifters becoming prevalent in newer cars.

    We test drove a Lancer GTS with CVT and really liked it. It is a smooth manner of transmitting the power to the wheels and the acceleration is smooth and steady. There isn't the lurching that is present in standard automatics as the transmission searches for correct gearing.

    I noticed last night coming home from the store that deceleration is fast with this tranny...no sooner had I let up on the accelerator I was quietly drifting to a stop outside our driveway.

    Fuel economy has been around 19mpg city and 31 mpg highway, certainly fair enough for us. We've been driving Kia's the past 8 years, which are heavy vehicles that don't really get maximum gas mileage but are good, steady vehicles that rarely presented us with any problems.

    Since the dealership had my color(Rally Red)and the Lancer GTS had the Sun and Sound package(Rockford Fosgate 650-watt 9-speaker stereo system with subwoofer in the trunk and sunroof)already installed I forgot all about needing a 5-speed manual tranny. My wife(who doesn't drive)offered that she would be comfortable driving this car and my son drives but not stick so the car would work for our family as a whole and I buried my 5-speed desires for this car. I may return some day to sticks but the way it's going they may be on their way out. I am one who hopes they stay around.

    The '08 Lancer GTS has aluminum paddle shifters so I can still play if I want. They work great and you can rev up the rpm's as much has you want and then just "flip" the paddle in the + direction and the small 4-door sedan responds appropriately. I like the idea and this car and it's transmission are a good fit for us. The Lancer GTS is built tight and there are no shakes, rattles or pops anywhere. I read that people have been unhappy with Mitsubishi's interiors for a while but this one is neat and clean and functionality is smartly appointed in the cabin. Mitsubishi is determined to come back and this new Lancer GTS is a great effort by them in that regard.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    It requires 93? What about the areas where 93 isn't readily available?

    I always thought cars requiring "premium" took 91 octane, like our Odyssey did.


    I would assume it would just retard the timing some, like when you run a 91 car on 89 or 87. Most "premium" cars are 91, but Mazda calls out 93 for that bad boy.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    The '08 Lancer GTS has aluminum paddle shifters so I can still play if I want. They work great and you can rev up the rpm's as much has you want and then just "flip" the paddle in the + direction

    Yeah I can't get over my thought that its the goofiest cheesiest thing ever. The whole idea is there are no steps, so why would you add them in? I guess I just don't get it.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    pretty sure that you will only find the 93 octane in larger metro areas where the EPA requires ethanol as a 'clean air' additive (down here in Houston, our premium is 93) - but don't fret, the ethanol both pumps the price a bit and costs a little in FE.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Actually, here in Birmingham you have to look hard to find a station WITHOUT 93 Octane, and we use virtually no ethanol.

    I guess we're an anomoly.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,723
    Same in Atlanta. 87, 89, 93.
  • bv050506bv050506 Posts: 97
    Which is exactly why I went on to make several more points not speed related as to why the Altima was superior to the Aura. The Aura won't last to 80K miles is my best guess.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The Aura won't last to 80K miles is my best guess.

    To be constructive, would you mind telling us why?

    The 3.6L has been around for a few years now, with no major flaws that I've heard of.

    With posts like this mindlessly bashing the Aura, the host will likely be back soon.

    The post about the Altima was good, full of information. It just seems like you are determined to bash the Aura without telling us any "why" info. Would you share with us where your 80k mile logic comes in?
  • jd10013jd10013 Posts: 779
    the only reason nissan has the best cvt out there is just because they invested more time an money into it than anyone else. same way toyota has the best hybrids on the market, they just worked harder on them. I think most every car company out there has used it on at least one model. Honda had a civic with one, ford used it some in the fiesta. the problme the cvt's had was (as you said) dealing with the greater HP and torque in larger engines. Nissan decided to put more R&D money into solving that than other companies did.

    And as for the future of 270 hp 4 banger, I think your right. In 15 years I doubt many cars will even have combustion engines in them. Once Lithium Ion batteries are perfected, the combustion engine in a car will only be for recharging the battery.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    Once Lithium Ion batteries are perfected, the combustion engine in a car will only be for recharging the battery.

    And then I will have to modify my car by changing the number of winds on the motor or the armature or the type and size of magnets used...sounds like an R/C car from back in the day.
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