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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    From many of your previous posts, you were not satisfied with your old (93) Accord, yet you bought another Accord (07). Which makes me wonder, why you keep buying these cars, if they are so bad? I don't get it.

    Do you REALLY own an Accord? I'm really beginning to wonder. :confuse:
  • From many of your previous posts, you were not satisfied with your old (93) Accord, yet you bought another Accord (07). Which makes me wonder, why you keep buying these cars, if they are so bad? I don't get it.

    Do you REALLY own an Accord? I'm really beginning to wonder.

    I wasn't dissatisfied with the '93, it was about as good as the Contour and the Jetta, it just was apparently not this holy grail I should've been expecting.

    As far as the '07, it was definitely a mistake. It was a very good deal at the time but generally speaking one of the most soulless cars I have driven. It was at a low point of other things going on in my life. My goal right now is to keep it as pristine as possible and hopefully learn about the incredible resale it should have in a year or so. I have no idea why I bought it, I have never been so underwhelmed with a vehicle.

    I take that back, as I mentioned previously, it does a fantastic job with holding the infant seat, and it gets mileage in the mid-30s. That screams driving enjoyment to me.
  • Ride: Are you saying Accord rides harsher than Mazda6? Then we need to go for a ride together.

    No, I think the Mazda is aggressive, but at least it can go around a cloverleaf without feeling like it was scrapping its doorhandles on the pavement.

    Tires: I haven't noticed any decline in mileage since I replaced the OEM Michelins 132K miles ago. In fact, it went up. I'm thankful that Michelins that came with the car were overly expensive to replace. It gave me a good excuse to explore other options.

    That treadwear number on the tire - the higher the number, the harder the rubber, and the longer the wear. The number is also roughly inversely correlated with rolling resistance - soft, sticky tires by design have more rolling resistance and thus, lower mileage, while highway tires are designed to roll quietly and efficiently.

    Quality/Features: At one point, you had to buy floor mats (they are included now, or at least were a few years ago).

    Yeah, the floor mats on the '93 were an additional ~$90. I wouldn't pay anything for the floor mats that came on the '07 EX.

    My 98 actually has better quality to the controls than your 93.

    You know, that is one area I never complained about, the controls always had a great feel to them. Same with the '93 and '07.

    And back then, Hondas were well known for being ridiculously underfeatured and undertired (now I'm complaining about them going overboard with features and rim size). Heck, even the mainstream Civic now has bigger wheels than my 1998 Accord.

    The '93 had 195/60R15s on alloy wheels. I thought that was fine for the size and weight of the car. When I replaced the highway Michelins with performance oriented Kumhos (and the stock 130k shocks with aftermarket replacements), the car handled very well and was fun to drive.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,697
    I got a 2007 Mazda6 rental the other day. It was a 6i VE with the 17" wheels, sport cloth interior with power seat, leather wheel, ground effects, even a rear spoiler (thought that was unusually sporty for Hertz). I thought the I4 with 5AT was plenty peppy, but then, my daily driver has only 138 hp. Re the ride, I was mildly surprised at the ride comfort with the 17" wheels. The car glided over all but the biggest bumps smoothly and quietly, yet handled crisply. I would say that it did indeed ride more smoothly than an Accord, at least the 2003-2007 generation. Maybe the Accord's ride has been smoothed out for 2008, as per some reviews.

    One nice thing about traveling a lot is that I get a chance to try out lots of cars... except Accords. :(
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    Sorry if you were confused by my response.

    The EPA rating on my '05 Sonata is 19/27. I average, year round, including summer with A/C and winter temps in the teens, right about the EPA estimate for city. I drive less than 3 miles to work and most trips are less than 5 miles. I do very little highway driving so I can't really comment on that except for 2 instances. I bought the car new in Florida and drove it home to CT (1300+ miles) and after about 700 miles did better than the EPA estimate, going with the traffic flow and using cruise control when traffic permitted.

    I know the EPA uses their own definition of class sizes. I was merely responding to your earlier post questioning if the Sonata & Accord should be considered in the large car rather than mid-size forum discussions. I was trying to say that comparing the milage figures for the Sonata & Accord would lean in favor of those cars when compared to cars than are larger in exterior size (and probably weight).

    BTW, have you finally learned the information you claimed to be trying to obtain for your friends to help them determine what car they should buy?
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    I replaced the OEM Michelins on my '01 Elantra with Kumhos that cost about 1/3 of what the Michelins cost, and they were quieter, had better all-weather performance, and lasted longer.

    Well according to you, anything Korean is better.
  • orbit9090orbit9090 Posts: 110
    I keep hearing how bad American car sales are...

    If American branded cars are selling so poorly, then why aren't there more for sale on dealers lots?
    The local Saturn dealership has turned into some 'used car' headquarters, with very few new Saturns to see, the two Ford dealerships have very few cars to choose from, and the "Number 1" Chevy dealership in town has fewer than 10 cars under $20K (but over 50 dumb trucks). Meanwhile, the Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai dealerships are balls-to-the-wall in new cars of all colors, shapes, sizes, and prices.

    It's no wonder American branded car sales are down - there's no reasonable selection to choose from.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,697
    Can't someone make a post around here without a personal attack?
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    It's no wonder American branded car sales are down - there's no reasonable selection to choose from.

    During the recent short-lived strike against GM (thankfully short) I read than GM had a 90 day inventory of cars compared to a 60 day inventory a year ago.

    Maybe the problem in you area is a distribution problem.
  • My Kumho Ecsta ASXs were $40/tire in a 195/60R15, have a VR speed reading, were great in the rain and okay in the snow, and had great turn in and a responsive ride. The Energy MXV4s they replaced were over $100/tire, okay in rain and good in snow, and handled like a pig on rollerskates.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    No you moron, we can't! :) :P ;)

    KIDDING buddy. I'm right with ya on that one.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    No, I think the Mazda is aggressive, but at least it can go around a cloverleaf without feeling like it was scrapping its doorhandles on the pavement.

    I will be glad to "follow you" in your Mazda. Where do we meet? That would be better than internet racing, or worse, pulling arguments out of thin air. :)

    Eventually, I will let you follow me. :D
  • No, I think the Mazda is aggressive, but at least it can go around a cloverleaf without feeling like it was scrapping its doorhandles on the pavement.

    I will be glad to "follow you" in your Mazda. Where do we meet? That would be better than internet racing, or worse, pulling arguments out of thin air.

    Alas, individual differences may also play a part, I wouldn't want to disadvantage the Accord any further with your driving :P

    I will see if I can borrow the GPS tool from work - its kind of like one of those g-analyst things you see advertised in magazines.

    Bench racing aside, I have gotten the '93 to go faster around the I94 to Michigan Ave cloverleaf than the '07, and I wasn't wrestling with it as much and it definitely didn't feel like the doorhandles were dragging. My '89 Galant did that, but at the time it was probably a good thing.
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    Well, have you considered the possibility that may be true? Maybe anything(insert your choice of country of origin here) is "better" for you. Kindly don't insist it should be mine also.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    Oh, what the heck is Mazda thinking with not having a trunk release button either on the remote or in the car? That was idiotic. Even a 2006 Civic has the buttons.

    My 2004 6 had a trunk release on the fob and on the lower left (of the steering wheel) dash. I don't think they changed that for '05 so I'm not sure what you were missing.

    The hatchback trunk was strange.... are all Mazda sedans equipped with the lifting rear window/trunk combo?

    No. Only the hatchback model. The sedan has a regular trunk opening and the wagon has, well, a wagon hatch.

    I mostly agree with your assessment of the engine too. I felt the V6 was a bit underpowered when paired with the ATX. However, when paired with the MTX, which I had, you are free to access the power, that doesn't come in until about 3500 RPMs as you stated, freely and then it really comes to life. Even with the lack of low end power it was always more than adequate to putz around town in. Drag racing required some high revving lauches though.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Like I said, no more arm chair racing. :)
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,973
    I bought a Mazda6, same as Backy drove as a rental recently, and drove Honda Accords before I bought. I'm a mature driver(read what you want into that term) but really appreciate a decent handling car. I totally agree with Backy and that is one of the main reasons(besides price)that I bought the Mazda. When driving the Honda I felt the princess in the fairy tale that feels the peas under her mattress---nearly every expansion strip was felt. I expected to feel more bumps with the Mazda but was pleasantly suprized that I don't.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    May be my experiences have been an aberration. So, perhaps I should replace the vanilla Sonata rental, that is parked on my drive way at this moment, with a Mazda6.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    My 2004 6 had a trunk release on the fob and on the lower left (of the steering wheel) dash. I don't think they changed that for '05 so I'm not sure what you were missing.

    I think perhaps the hatchback and the wagon are missing a trunk/hatch release, while the sedan has the buttons on the key fob/remote and by the steering wheel...... I'm just assuming that's the difference that occurred, or did Mazda run out of trunk release buttons at the factory in 2005? :P

    The hatchback model looks just like the sedan; doesn't it? It had a big spoiler and the ground effect aerodynamic trim too. All things I'd give up for 25 more HP.

    I was a bit concerned at the interior scuffing and wear and tear shown on this 2 year old 36K mile vehicle from Mazda. I don't care if it was abused, it needs to handle the abuse better. It did seem as if the dealer kept it very clean too.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Can't someone make a post around here without a personal attack?

    Personal attack? Huh? I was referring to your obvious slant (to be mild about it) towards Korean products. I've made pro-Honda/Nissan/Japanese assertions that have attracted similar respnses and don't go round with my feelings hurt.

    I guess only the kumbaya comments are expected around here.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    The point is that the personal comments are inappropriate and only serve to derail the conversation (as we see here). If you want to post something about the cars - kumbaya or boobayah - that's great. If you want to make some kind of comment or insinuation about a poster, then - please. just. skip. it.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,697
    I didn't know the Mazda6 is made in Korea. Did Mazda open a factory there recently? I also thought the Versa is a Nissan design, made in Mexico, not Korea. And that's interesting that GM is making (or will soon make) the Malibu in Korea. But that is why these discussions are so great, you can learn something every day.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    Vanilla??

    I thought the color was called "powder white pearl."
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,973
    I also drove the Sonata twice in my quest for a new vehicle. I was pretty impressed with how quiet it was and it drove very nice but like you say, it seemed rather "vanilla". Just couldn't put my finger on it but it seemed just a little rough around the edges here and there. My daughter had an 2002 Elantra and she had good luck with but she would be the first to admit that it was about 95% there in relation to the Japanese cars. Price/value though Hyundai is hard to beat unless you want something that drives a little sportier.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    I think perhaps the hatchback and the wagon are missing a trunk/hatch release, while the sedan has the buttons on the key fob/remote and by the steering wheel...... I'm just assuming that's the difference that occurred, or did Mazda run out of trunk release buttons at the factory in 2005?

    IIRC, the 5-door unlocks ALL the doors when the unlock button is pressed on the fob, including the hatch. I don't know why they don't have an interior release though. zzzoom6 can answer this one better than I can, since he's got the 5-door.

    All things I'd give up for 25 more HP.

    ...Or driving a manual compared to the power-sapping slushbox. Trust me, the manual pulls nicely, without the need for 25 more HP on the freeway onramps.

    I was a bit concerned at the interior scuffing and wear and tear shown on this 2 year old 36K mile vehicle from Mazda. I don't care if it was abused, it needs to handle the abuse better. It did seem as if the dealer kept it very clean too.

    The dealer can clean it as much as they want to, but it's still a rental, subject to much more wear-and-tear and abuse than what anyone would do to their own car. My '04, OTOH, is free of any scratches or blemishes on the dash and center console. The carpeting and the back seats look as good as new as well, even with all the abuse they get from my job (visiting construction sites, carrying equipment, etc.)

    The only thing I'm not too thrilled about is the cloth seat material on the drivers seat. With only 57K miles on it, it looks worse than many cars with 100-150K miles on them. It's worn almost down to nothing. It's a common problem with the '03-'05 models, and the '06-up material was changed with the seat redesign, with no significant complaints since.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    The unlock button does indeed unlock the trunk/hatch/door, however, I'd still like a "trunk open/release button" that actually OPENS the hatch by a 1/2 inch or so and you know its unlocked.

    The auto slushbox has 6 gears to work with, so it should be a good slushbox and not saap too much power. Too bad they don't have manual tranny rental/loaners.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    The hatchback model looks just like the sedan; doesn't it?

    Pretty much, yes. The hatch has a slightly longer C pillar and shorter trunk lid. The big giveaway is the rear wiper on the hatch which the sedan does not have either.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The number of gears won't make driveline loss due to having an automatic any less, I believe - it'll just make better use of the power due to better ratios.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,679
    The new automatics seemed to be almost on par with the manuals as far as efficiency. You don't see the big difference in performance and FE as you used to.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I get about the same mpg in my Mazda6, 5 speed automatic as I used to get in my 5 speed manual Contour. This despite the Mazda'a weighing several hundred pounds more.

    I think the acceleration of my 6 is also about the same as the manual contour...both were measured at around 9.5 sec. for 0-60, IIRC. To me, this is adequate. Of course, a manual in the 6 would be faster...depending on driver skill.

    Once upon a time, I bought a manual Voyager to get 5 gears, instead of 3 and 5 mpg better gas highway mileage. Also once upon a time, I felt power of 4 cylinders was always inadequate with an automatic.
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