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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    That would explain why they made the 2-piece folding rear seat one piece for 2008.

    Actually, it has been one piece ever since I remember (my 1996 is a one-piece, as is my 2006).

    My dad had some base model (DX) Civics that didn't have A/C standard, but they had that split rear seat!
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Mazda may not be selling in CamCord territory, but they are quite possibly the ONLY division making $$$ for Ford.

    Mazda will never sell anything close to numbers you see from Honda/Toyota. They are OK with that. Mazda is making lots of money, showing Ford great return on their 33.4% stake in the company.

    Keep in mind, Mazda has the youngest average aged buyer in the entire industry, and they want to keep it that way. It is very important in terms of building brand loyalty when you have the youngest buyer. As long as Mazda keeps doing what they are doing, they will be around for a long time, and will only get bigger and more profitable.
  • Actually, I've understood this to be for rigidity, but I don't really know. If I needed a car for cargo more often than my limited use, I'd get a CR-V. Similar driving experience to an Accord, just a little slower.

    If you feel that a chunky sport-cute with a higher center of gravity and high profile tires has a similar driving experience to an Accord, that doesn't speak to highly of the Accord. That is not to say you aren't correct though.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,728
    I stand corrected then. I read that the rear seat was 60/40 in the prior generation (2003-7) but is now one-piece. Maybe the review was in error?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I'm sure you're not alone. :)

    BTW, the Civic-like steering spoke design has made it into a Hyundai... let us talk family resemblance. :shades:

    image

    If it were just another "family resemblance" thing, why would you bring it up? I guess you're not used to it in the Hyundai world. :D

    As for rear seat back, my 1998 Accord has one piece too. That is very un-Civic-like. And my 2006 TL's back seat doesn't even fold down (and neither it does in my friend's BMW M5). It has got cross members for additional structural rigidity. But that may not be important to you.

    As for 4-speed versus 5-speed, well, you have to first have a clue about why engineers go for additional speeds. I'm willing to bet you don't.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Another good reason to not rely on "reviews" by automotive journalists. :D
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    It speaks highly of CR-V, actually. It is one of the very few SUVs I would ever consider getting (but I won't).
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,728
    Actually a one-piece folding seat back is very Civic-like. Those are pretty common on Civics in recent years.

    For me, the utility of a 60/40 folding rear seat is important. If an automaker can't make a car rigid enough and still offer a 60/40 rear seat, well, that's not my problem.

    As for not having a clue, every time someone takes a personal shot here rather than having a civil discussion, I just figure they have nothing else of value to say on a subject.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    Why do you take an innocent little comment and turn it into an argument with derogatory personal comments?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Actually a one-piece folding seat back is very Civic-like. Those are pretty common on Civics in recent years.

    Civics have had 60/40 split-folding seat backs for years. I know, because I had a 2000. Accords haven't had it in several years. So, I'm still trying to figure out the point you're trying to make here.

    the utility of a 60/40 folding rear seat is important. If an automaker can't make a car rigid enough and still offer a 60/40 rear seat, well, that's not my problem.

    May be it is to you. But I'm sure BMW and Honda engineers have good reasons for it.

    So, I read something about taking a "shot" here. Are you talking about me posting a picture of "civic-like" steering wheel on Veracruz? :D
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,341
    Game. Set. Match. Malibu is and will be a loser, there is no way it can compete as I quote from Edmunds' own review "Despite a standard six-speed automatic, the V6 Malibu returns EPA fuel-economy figures of 17 city and 26 highway — a couple of mpg worse than its competitors."

    There is no way people are going to buy an inefficient 6 speed auto mated to an inefficient V6 engine. Gas is way to0 expensive to be buying less for the same amount of money. Also, our environmental future relies on companies that produce more fuel efficient vehicles. Again, why would anyone in their right mind settle for less power and less fuel economy at the same time?
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    If it wasn't for Ford buying the 33.4% share in Mazda, I doubt Mazda would EXIST (let alone thrive) in 2007. Mazda has set personal sales records with both the 3 and 6 since being "Fordified", and there wouldn't be ANY V6 for the NA-market 6 without Ford
    Mazda's engine development capabilities WERE adequately demonstrated in the Speed6 - and now all we get is a lousy 200hp and mediocre FE in a definitively non competitive Ford engine - and this is good? Mazda sets 'sales records' only because of some non-Japanlike discounting, whether the divison makes any real money is dubious at best. The company has historically been quite innovative and made some quite good cars. What happened, if not for that 33.4% you mention?
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,341
    Yes, it seems the Speed6 was a much more competent effort than the 3.0 Ford V6.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Mazda sets 'sales records' only because of some non-Japanlike discounting, whether the divison makes any real money is dubious at best

    For the 2007MY, Mazda's discounting is similar to that of Honda/Toyota/Nissan. Keep in mind, Honda/Toyota/Nissan/Mazda disounting plans are devised by their North American opperations team, not headquarters in Japan. You have to look at how these companies do business in Japan to see what the "Japan-like" business tactics really are. Can you show any proof of that?

    MY2006 Mazda sales figures/profits here...

    http://www.mazda.com/publicity/release/2007/200704/070427f.html
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,728
    The current Civic DX and LX have a one-piece folding rear seat, according to Honda:

    http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.aspx?id=2005083038429

    So that is something that the new Accord shares with the Civic. Although at least with a Civic, you can get a 60/40 rear seat if you move up to the EX or Si trim levels.

    The "shot" was saying I wouldn't understand why an automaker would put 5 speeds rather than 4 speeds into a transmission. That is another way of calling someone an idiot.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Since Accord hasn't had split folding rear seats, at least for three generations now, but Civic has had it, it is only logical to say Civic is more Accord-like than otherwise. But you won't get it, would you? :)

    The "shot" was saying I wouldn't understand why an automaker would put 5 speeds rather than 4 speeds into a transmission. That is another way of calling someone an idiot.

    If that is the only you way you can look at the argument. But as far as I'm concerned, most people don't have a clue about transmissions and how they work. That doesn't make them idiots, it makes them less informed (not quite the same thing, is it?).
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,341
    The "shot" was saying I wouldn't understand why an automaker would put 5 speeds rather than 4 speeds into a transmission. That is another way of calling someone an idiot.

    Glad you agree the domestic companies are "idiots" for those who are still using 4 speed automatics in their 4 cylinder vehicles (or even worse with V6 motors).
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    It seems to be a problem handed down from Aura. Is Malibu getting the 3.6?
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Are there really car buyers who think "I sure wish this car had big intrusive hinges, instead of struts...I just know those struts are going to break"?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    This discussion came around last week when a friend of mine who has arthritis had borrowed my Accord for a day while her Jetta was in the shop. Later in the evening she was telling me that the Accord's trunk was so much easier for her to operate. I told her why it was. And then also told her that struts can fail to boot to which she responded that she had to get one replaced in her Jetta (which is just a 2002 model).

    If there were more who analyzed things like I do, we won't be having this discussion. And this is the car that helped me learn a few things (Lexus GS)...
    image
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,728
    Please re-read my post--that's not what I said, or implied, at all.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,728
    So with the 6-speed automatic available in the I4 Aura and also, early next year, in the I4 Malibu, does that make automakers like Honda "idiots" for only offering 5 speeds?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    While driving back to Dallas from Houston over the weekend, I noticed three 1990-1993 generation Accords over a short distance and that got me into thinking about longevity of cars. I can’t recall the last time I saw a Camry from that era, and in fact, 1993-1996 Camry has become a rare thing too despite of being a high volume seller in its day. OTOH, 1990+ Accords are very easy to find on the roads, and mid-90s Taurus is too, as are mid-late 90s Maximas. I don’t expect to see many Sonatas either but they can get the benefit of doubt for being low volume sellers.

    I would like to see the percentage of cars still on road that have been sold since 1990. Anybody knows a credible source?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Yes. That is one area I have been complaining about from Honda. They have been selling 6AT in European Civic which has the same engine as American version, just haven't considered it yet for American market in any of its cars.

    But at the same time, I don't want Honda to put a 6AT for namesake (that would be simply to appeal to less than informed buyers). When they do, it needs to be the real thing. The best candidates for it are 190 HP Accord I-4, and to some extent, the Accord V6.

    Interestingly enough, I feel Honda could stick better 5AT ratios in Accord than they have, and have it even better than some 6ATs being sold in front drivers.

    With powerful front drivers, it is more difficult to extract the full potential of 6AT.
  • OTOH, 1990+ Accords are very easy to find on the roads, and mid-90s Taurus is too, as are mid-late 90s Maximas.

    I think this is very regional. I see a lot of 90-93 Accords on the road but they are starting to lack rear quarter panels. I actually did well selling mine because being from California, it had no rot.
    The Taurus with the Vulcan V6 will run forever, even the A4OD was somewhat under-stressed by that application. The later 3.8L was a motor that had a lot of longevity as well.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,728
    I see lots of Camrys from the '92-'96 generation, probably more than any other mid-sized car from that era, and lots of Buicks--many even from the '80s. Lots of Taurii from '95-on. I also see some '90-93 Accords, but like you I see a lot of rust on those. Lots of '94-97 Accords out there, they don't seem to have been hit by the rust bug as much.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Maybe you guys remember me posting pictures from being clipped on the interstate over the summer. Did a nice sum of damage, and I got my car back not too long ago (maybe 1,000 miles?). Well, I got rear-ended today, once again, in my 1996 Accord. That brings the total number of incidents (none of which I caused or was found at fault for) to FIVE in that car. None in my new one thank-the-lord.

    I'm beginning to think my beloved 12 year old Honda has a curse. Either that, or a magnet, which draws other cars to me! Luckily, I'm ok, and the damage is minor, but once again I get to play the "deal with their insurance company" game. UGH!
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Glad you're fine. It sucks to be in that situation.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    :cry: Yep, just lucky to have my 2006 while that one is in the shop. I'm actually thinking of selling old faithful (she needs some work that will be expensive - timing belt at $650 plus struts which would cost $800+ I've been told). Maybe when I get 'er fixed I'll put the sign in the window. I can't promise I won't cry though :cry: :cry:
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,341
    I think guys driving domestics are jealous of the "last and run forever" Honda's and try to play target practice on them with the "won't run for long" domestics they have. :P So you better crash um while you still can! :P

    They try to run the Honda's into the junkyard due to collisions.

    My GF got rearended by a Taurus and a Jetta in her Civics.

    I got rear ended by a Mustang in my Accord.

    I've never hit anyone else's vehicle excluding hits under 3 MPH.
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