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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I don't see a major price advantage on Malibu actually. It is priced in the same price range as the Accord.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    There's now a lot of good choices in this segment even if you would just limit yourself to the domestic name plates. With only Chrysler being left out of the party in my humble opinion. And even then it's not like you're being punished for getting a Sebring.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,715
    - Malibu LS I4 AT, $19,995 including destination charge.
    - Accord LX I4 AT, $21,795 including destination charge.

    I don't know about you, but $1800 is a significant chunk of change to me.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,715
    I would feel punished if I had to drive a Sebring every day. :sick:
  • tedebeartedebear Posts: 832
    You apparently have not driven the redesigned 07 or 08 Sebring with the 3.5L 6-speed autostick and all the options lately.

    It's a joy to drive. I usually go out during my lunch break just to sit in it and play. I never knew I could drive to Disneyworld from St. Louis without using any freeways until now.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,715
    I am glad you enjoy your car. Personally I don't buy a car to use its electronics to find out that I could drive from St. Louis to Disneyland without using any freeways, but as I've noted before, each of us has his/her own criteria for buying a car. If I had to look at the exterior and interior of the Sebring every day, I would not have a good feeling. A car I own has to be one for which I could live with its looks for a long time. The Sebring isn't one of those cars for me.
  • map out a trip to Wallyworld just like Clark Griswald took in National Lampoon's Vacation. Only you're not gonna be starting from Chicago you'll start from St.Louis. Remember to stop at the Grand Canyon(it really is not to be missed...Clark dissed it in the movie).

    Would the Chrysler Sebring be comfortable all the way to Los Angeles from St.Louis?

    I like the new '08 Bu from Chevrolet, as far as looks go anyways. I was looking at it on the net back at the beginning of this year but was turned off when Chevy announced that they would not sell any with manual tranny's.

    Then I bought a 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS with a CVT automatic anyway! Really, the '08 Bu is a tad big for my tastes. The Lancer GTS is just right for my wife and I.

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    That's the sound of the last almost full-page of posts disappearing. Let me suggest to all participants that if you want to continue to be a part of this conversation that you keep your posts on topic. Posts about other participants are out of bounds period. Posts about minivans, SUVs, manufacturers in general, etc., do not belong here.

    We are here to discuss midsize sedans and that's all.

    Every one of you who has had a post removed just now knows those things so let's stop and think a minute before making an inappropriate post. If you feel like a post is out of line, you have two choices - ignore it or email me and ask me to look at it. Jumping on the poster is not one of your options.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    It won't be, if you consider that you don't get a few things in the Malibu that you do in Accord. You did make a point about 6AT earlier, so why doesn't Accord have an edge on Malibu until that happens? This, besides the fact that you have to move up to LT trim to get stability control. Both are points that you often use to compare "value".

    And we are not talking long term ownership costs here, right?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,715
    Which trim lines of the Accord offer OnStar as standard equipment? Or if not standard, what is the cost of the OnStar option?

    If you require stability control on a car to consider it a good value, how about this:

    Malibu LT I4 AT with moonroof: $21,755
    Accord EX I4 AT (least expensive Accord with a moonroof): $24,495

    Until early next year, the Accord has one more cog in its AT that comes with the I4. But then the Malibu will take the lead there with its 6AT.
  • Accord's don't have OnStar as that is a GM service. But if you meant the Mailbu, it's standard from LS on up.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,715
    No, I meant the Accord. There was a comment that the Accord has features the Malibu doesn't have. It seems that is true the other way around also.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    I read the Edmunds.com review of the 08 Malibu. These are just a few of the areas where the reviewer said the Malibu came up a little short, when compared to the Accord (and some other competitors). Power (I4 and V6), fuel economy, interior, and steering feel. Not huge advantages, but advantages none the less. A couple I would have mentioned are the likelyhood of better reliability and resale value.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    It would be helpful to avoid the sarcasm and just make the point directly.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,715
    Excuse me, but my post was not intended as sarcasm. I am sorry you saw it that way. It was, however, an indirect way of noting that the Malibu has features that the Accord does not.
  • tedebeartedebear Posts: 832
    I am glad you enjoy your car. Personally I don't buy a car to use its electronics to find out that I could drive from St. Louis to Disneyland without using any freeways

    Oh, I think you already knew that was just one of many examples of the entertaining things it can do. Besides, it was DisneyWORLD. ;)

    I had a choice of vehicles to take to work today. There was Scarlett the red Sebring, Shirley the blue/black Trek bicycle (I ride a lot) and Elvira the black Viper. I know many people would not give up a chance to drive a Viper around but Scarlett the Sebring got the call. She's just so much darn fun in her own way.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Since fantasy comparisons are fine and dandy in these forums, now that you couldn't make a point against Accord LX, you want to add moonroof, eh?

    I don't know about you, but I have seen this as a cyclical process. The debate pops up every five years. Malibu started with a bang ten years ago, even louder five years ago. And now, there is yet another.

    The way you see value is not the way everybody else does. If I were to bet on value, my pick would on Accord LX/LX-P over Malibu LS/LT. There is a whole lot to cars than trying to find a feature or two that might be missing in one. One of the points you have made is with the assumption that Malibu will have 6AT (if I asked you, what advantage it afforded, we will be going back to a discussion that you couldn't digest earlier). So, why are you ignoring that it has 4AT right now? And if GM is indeed planning to put 6AT in couple of months which will drastically transform the car, as you seem to believe, then shouldn't we pity anybody who buys the Malibu today?

    The only thing we could agree upon, perhaps, is that you can't prove anything until tested against time. Give them 2-3 years, and we might be discussion "upgrades" necessary with next generation.
  • Backy...you didnt really drive from St Louis to DW using back roads...did you?
    So how do you like Sebring?Good mileage?
  • There's a pretty good review of the 08 Malibu on the 2008 Chevy Malibu forum, message 545 for those who might be interested. Looks like the LTZ model on the four cylinder will be the first to get the six speed auto, with the other trim levels to follow thereafter.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Actually, "value" is as subjective of an opinion as is "color" - everyone is entitled to his or her own definition which includes you, backy and everyone else here. No need for us all to agree, otherwise why would so many choices be available?! :)
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I agree with your opinion. :D

    And didn't think challenging another's was the point but that what one sees as value isn't that for another.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,715
    So, why are you ignoring that it has 4AT right now? And if GM is indeed planning to put 6AT in couple of months which will drastically transform the car, as you seem to believe, then shouldn't we pity anybody who buys the Malibu today?

    I didn't ignore that the Malibu has a 4AT on the I4 right now--I was very clear that it has one, and actually mentioned it more than once in this discussion. And I never said that a 6AT will "drastically transform the car." We can have a much better dialogue about these cars if we don't put words on each other's fingers and not take (inaccruate) stabs at what other people say. Agreed?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Its not taking stabs, I'm expecting consistency in arguments. It got worse because instead of sticking with the original argument (LS versus LX), you changed it to now compare LT w/moonroof to EX. I could have just as well taken it further, and we get nowhere.

    If you can make a case for value based on initial price versus features with one trim, you should be able to do so without having to change the argument.
  • tedebeartedebear Posts: 832
    So how do you like Sebring?Good mileage?

    Well, you can see from my replies to Backy how much I like it.

    The mileage is a little low but it's within tolerable limits. The two times I've actually checked it I calculated 20.7 and 20.8 mpg combined city/highway. The in-dash display shows it to be about 1 mpg less than that but I like to figure it the old fashioned way.

    I'm looking forward to testing it on a long highway cruise someday. Maybe I'll drive down to DisneyWORLD, although I only know how to get there by not taking the freeway. :D
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Do you also have average mph display to go with average mpg? If you do, could you post that as well when you do reset the trip computer?

    Based on my experience, average mph is a big factor in determining observed fuel economy. My previous experience with Chrysler 3.5/V6 was in 2007 300, that I had as a rental in Arizona. It got a decent 26-27 mpg (90% highway) in that car.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,715
    It got worse because instead of sticking with the original argument (LS versus LX), you changed it to now compare LT w/moonroof to EX.

    Uh, you were the one who asked to change the comparison. You noted that the Malibu LS doesn't have stability control and the Accord LX does. Even though the Malibu has features the Accord doesn't, I went ahead and took your suggestion to compare a Malibu with stability control to the Accord. But I noticed the Malibu LT has 17" wheels, which is what the Accord EX has. So to make the price comparison more fair to the Accord, I added a moonroof to the Malibu. So, what is the big deal with that?
  • It's funny how passionate some people are about their FWD family sedans. I'm not knocking everyone who posts here; I just find it amusing how some people can actually be Family Sedan Snobs.

    If you want to be a car snob, at least buy a pre-owned BMW or something comparable.

    Fact is: family sedans are appliances. For those who are unbiased and willing to test drive all of them, you will find very little difference between Brand X and Brand Y.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    It might be interesting to re-visit discussion from the beginning of time. Your original post on the topic:

    “Yes, I agree. Unless... they do one of those "what can you get for $XXk" comparos again and it happens to be a Malibu LT I4 with the 6-speed AT vs. the Accord LX. That could get interesting.”

    To which I responded:
    “I don't see a major price advantage on Malibu actually. It is priced in the same price range as the Accord.”

    This is where hell broke loose. You had started with LT, went back to LS to quote the lowest price possible then went back to LT w/moon roof option added to ensure you weren’t getting left behind in feature list. Regardless of where you go, my point still stands... Malibu is pretty close in pricing to Accord.

    To be more realistic, let us leave it to the market to decide “value”, shall we?

    PS. It is interesting that you put greater value to 17” rims. Give me 16” rims, unless it happens to be a sport tuned model that demands a lower profile tire. Otherwise, those things are not only going to add to the cost of tires during every replacement but also add about 40 lb to the unsprung weight of the car. I have argued about this endlessly in some Accord related forums. I've went far enough to say that Honda has gone overboard with wheel sizes even in Civic LX which uses the same size wheels as the much more heavier, performance oriented and powerful BMW 3-series. Now one can get a Civic Si with rim size that is larger than was ever offered in Acura NSX.

    There are a lot more ways to appreciate “value” than the initial price tag.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    Fact is: family sedans are appliances. For those who are unbiased and willing to test drive all of them, you will find very little difference between Brand X and Brand Y.

    Your comments, Autokritiker, are sure to rankle some posters on this thread but I for one happen to agree with you. My wife and I enjoy our 2007 SEL AWD Ford Fusion immensely but it is, after all, a four-door sedan, albeit it a very nice one.

    The four-door sedan has come a long way in the last half century but mostly all manufacturers these days offer competitive products: There is not a great deal of difference between Brand X and Brand Y, in my book.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,715
    I agree there are is more to value than original price tag. But I don't know why you seem to be so upset at my attempts to compare prices of like-trim Malibus and Accords, in reply to your statement, "It is priced in the same price range as the Accord."

    First, I compared the price of the base trim Malibu with AT to the base trim Accord with AT. You objected because the base Malibu doesn't have stability control and the base Accord does. So to accomodate your complaint, I compared the up-level Malibu LT, which has stability control, to the up-level Accord EX. And I added a moonroof to the Malibu since that is something the Accord EX has. I guess you didn't like that either. Is it that you don't like the fact that the new Malibu is significantly less expensive than the Accord? If you want to think of a difference of $1800-$2800 as "close to", that's fine with me. We'll just have to disagree on that. As we do on the value of larger rims/tires. Or the value of a 60/40 split rear seat, which is standard on the Malibu but not available on the Accord. Or the value of OnStar, which is standard on the Malibu but not available on the Accord.

    You define value the way you want, but others may disagree.
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