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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • "Okay, fine, you win! The almighty Accord is superior to every other vehicle out there, from a Ferrari to Yugo... "

    Where in my post did I say that the Accord is the best handler? Or even better than a 6? You said that the Camcords are 'coma inducing' and I asked if you felt that both of them drove so similarly that you felt they were both 'coma inducing.'

    "Heaven forbid someone in this discussion have an opinion that's NOT in praise of the Accord and Camry"

    And heaven forbid if somone does the praise the Accord or Camry; all hell breaks loose. Same both sides, so no use taking a moral high ground.
  • "Not to but in to your heated debate, but, it is not a matter of opinion that the 6 handles better then the Accord and Camry, it's a fact, whether he likes it or not"

    Do you have problems comprehending english? Where did I say the Accord handles better than a 6? Can you point it out on any of my posts?
  • "The Mustang is classified as a mid-sized coupe and therefore competes with, or at least did before, the Accord coupe. If one is fair game then the other has to be too."

    I wasn't aware that the Mustang is part of a midsize sedan discussion. If it is, fair than your point is fair enough

    "You might want to rethink that. Unless you have a new 335i, and not a 330i, then you're sadly mistaken. Even a new Accord V6 is faster than your 330i to 60. Handling wise the GT and 330i are pretty much even. I think your thinking of the last gen Mustang or something. I think the new Camry and Accord could even give those a run for their money now."

    No, I don't have a 335, its a 330i. And no, neither the Accord nor the Camry sixes are faster than a 330i, straight line or switchbacks. As for handling, brakes etc., I would think I would be faster than you, what with your 400lb penalty (wife, kids, groceries) :)

    Seriously, my point was that the Accord is not as good a handler as a 6, but its no slouch either. And in any case, why are we even discussing a brand new model with a 5 yr old one - I think we should wait for the new Mz6. If it can hold its current weight and increase power with the 3.7, it should be a fast car. Hopefully they can improve interior quality and finish.
  • "We are all entitled to our opinions here. I will agree with you on this one"

    Similarly, the 4 cyl in the Mazda puts me to sleep - talk about coma inducing.
  • bug4bug4 Posts: 370
    I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around that one . . . . "Handling wise the [Mustang] GT and [BMW] 330i are pretty much even." I've driven several Mustangs very hard, although they were not the current generation. I have driven several 3-series BMW's hard, both current and older versions. I can't see any comparison between the two, "handling wise." The [non-permissible content removed]-end loved to come around on the Mustangs and they seemed surprisingly out-of-balance. The steering was overly-assisted and gave virtually NO meaningful feedback. Although the Mustangs had plenty of horses under the hood, the power was as unrefined as any I have ever experienced. Frankly, and I only speak from my limited experience, the Mustangs seemed good for nothing but smoke'n the tires on main street.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    This is becoming about each other instead of about the cars.

    Picking each other apart is not moving this discussion forward. Let's ratchet down the rhetoric, please.

    (And the Mustang really does not belong here, so let's drop it from the conversation.)
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    - I think we should wait for the new Mz6. If it can hold its current weight and increase power with the 3.7, it should be a fast car. Hopefully they can improve interior quality and finish.

    By the pics of the Euro and Asian next generation Mazda6, I think they have stepped up the interior ambience quite a bit. If you've seen the interior of a CX-9 you'll have an idea of where the new 6 is. It's still sporty but adds a bit more warmth. Not that I dislike the fit and finish of the current 6, but I like the improvements in the new one too.

    here's a link to the interior of the new 6: 2009 mazda6 interior
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Yep. And that pretty tells all about the expertise in handling around here. :D
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    Seriously, my point was that the Accord is not as good a handler as a 6, but its no slouch either.

    I totally agree. This all started when you challenged a 6 to pass an Accord on a back road. I was actually referring to the last gen Accord as it is still the most found on the road. Given the handling advantage of the 6 and it's comparable acceleration numbers, weaker engine and all, it's a pretty good match wiht that gen Accord.

    Obviously there was some mis-communication so your point is valid when discussing the current Accord.

    And no, neither the Accord nor the Camry sixes are faster than a 330i, straight line or switchbacks.

    According to MT a 2007 330i does 0-60 in 6.6 seconds. Both the new Accord and Camry should be faster than that. Have you read differently? Just curious. :shades:

    As for handling, brakes etc., I would think I would be faster than you, what with your 400lb penalty (wife, kids, groceries)

    Maybe in the handling dept., yes! I don't think 400lbs would make up for the 1.5 second difference to 60 between the two though. ;) I didn't buy it for it's handling anyway. The 6 was more fun in the twisites as I've stated once before even though it actually doesn't handle as well as the Mustang. It was just easier to drive and more tossable. It seemed to have the right mix of power and handling for a spirited drive whereas the Mustang has too much power for the twisties, at least around here, and can be a handful if you're not careful.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    I've driven several Mustangs very hard, although they were not the current generation.

    The last part of that sentence is the problem. The new one is night and day. Ford Racing tuned Mustangs are constantly beating BMWs on professional circuits these days. Solid rear axle and all.

    Besides, I was going by magazine test numbers which do show the two as even mostly. I'm not a professional driver and a BMW is probably much easier to drive and that makes a big difference.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    When considering a midsize sedan, I (like most people) don't put handling as the #1 attribute I am looking for. I don't want a car that has sloppy handling, but being able to pull maximum g-forces around every corner is not what I'm buying the car for. For the Mazda 6 crowd, this may be the top priority. For most of us, it's not that important.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    And the Mustang really does not belong here, so let's drop it from the conversation.

    Then neither does the Accord or Altima coupe. :P
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    Thanks for the link that shows the interior of the next 6. I don't like it. I'm not crazy about the Accord's either. Honda will probably screw up the interior of the next TSX too. Well, according to my tastes anyway. I do like the interior of the next A4 though.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    Yeah, it's not jaw dropping at all, but I do think it's better than the current version. But really, it's not a huge departure from the current gen like the new Sonata vs the old Sonata. That's one interior that took a huge leap forward IMO.

    I've resized a different pic so it's easier to view:
    image
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,749
    Based on the photo, I like the current interior better. This one looks so... plasticky. Maybe because the photo is so dark.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I agree with backy. Too plasticky and the old 6 looks more upscale.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    What's with the giant grab handle on the door? Is that door made of lead? Does it take two hands to pull it shut?
  • milkeymilkey Posts: 66
    I like it. But that's because it bears a striking resemblence to the Mazda3 that I've been driving for the last two years.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    I think that's the "O crap! You're not going to take that corner at this speed are you?!?!" handle. fyi, the driver's side door doesn't have that handle...
  • Yeah, those pics are a little more flattering than that first one. That big thing in the middle that has the numbers 1-6 on it makes my heart go a flutter as well.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I'd have to see the interior of the cheaper versions to come to a final judgement, since that would be what I would buy, were I buying. But I am pretty sure I'll prefer the current interior. I think the current version looks "sportier" overall

    I don't like the steering wheel with the silver bits and excessively chunky spokes. The button in the middle of the audio controls looks like it says "menu"...not something I want, menu implies an overly complex system to me. The woodgrain bit on the center console makes me want to puke...what's Mazda going to do next put in a partial wood steering wheel :cry: ? I much prefer the look and functionality of the round vents to those rectagular ones.

    What does "ACC" on the start button mean? (just curious)
  • When considering a midsize sedan, I (like most people) don't put handling as the #1 attribute I am looking for. I don't want a car that has sloppy handling, but being able to pull maximum g-forces around every corner is not what I'm buying the car for. For most of us, it's not that important.

    Well said. And that is why there is some variety in the marketplace. Our Legacy has been phenomenal, it is a wagon (I know, not a sedan, but it does have a sedan counterpart), has AWD, a manual transmission, about 30 mpg, and is powerful enough to get out of its own way (although not a lot to write home about). I feel that it handles really well, even on crummy RE92s. Turn in is crisp, the back end feels very stable, there is a lot of feedback on what the car is doing. In poor weather, it is very stable (unless you are messing around) and provides a lot of feedback on road conditions.
    Our Accord has returned stellar fuel efficiency (low to mid 30s), feels very powerful for a 4 cylinder (rated about the same HP as the Subie), and does a great job holding the child seat. It has very sluggish turn-in, masks what the front wheels are doing, has a lot of body roll for a car in 2007, and doesn't really do anything to inspire driver confidence. Normally some of that could be corrected with a tire upgrade, but due to a minivan tire size, performance options are severely limited w/o going to a 17" wheel. On an upside, KBB, NADA, and Edmunds all have "trade-in value" pegged at about what I paid for it.
  • What does "ACC" on the start button mean? (just curious)

    On another vehicle that has that push start, you push it once to get the ACC position, or push and hold to start the car. The ACC position is the equivalent of turning the key to the accessory setting.
  • The pics are from the European version, so I'm sure some of the trim details will be different here in the states, but I'll agree that I hope the woodgrain is a separate option (if offered at all).

    The square vents in the center stack makes me want to believe that the oscillating option for the vents returns once again (originally used on the 626). That was a surprisingly useful function. With the advent of dual climate control, I doubt it'll be so, but still, one can hope... :)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,726
    In other words, ACC stands for Accessory.
  • "According to MT a 2007 330i does 0-60 in 6.6 seconds. Both the new Accord and Camry should be faster than that. Have you read differently? Just curious."

    BMW's conservative estimates for the 330i were 6.1s to 60. CD I remember did a high 5 on one of theirs.

    "Maybe in the handling dept., yes! I don't think 400lbs would make up for the 1.5 second difference to 60 between the two though"

    I would think that difference would be more like < 1sec. And we were discussing switchbacks - so yeah, a 330i would have an advantage :)

    Before I get kicked out for being OT - let's get back to midsize cars..
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,749
    That does look better than the first photo. At least they lost those huge upright handles. Those looked really strange--and cheap. But since this is probably the top-end interior (e.g. note the nav), there's still a little too much black plastic there for my taste. The dark plood is nice looking. I agree the spokes on the wheel are too big, If those bright door pulls are honest-to-gosh metal, that would be great.

    I don't see a button to control the ocillating vents, so I doubt that feature has returned. I'd be real surprised if it had, in this era of de-contenting to save every last buck.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Do you have problems comprehending english? Where did I say the Accord handles better than a 6? Can you point it out on any of my posts?

    No I don't have a problem "comprehending english". I was commenting on what he said, not you. I did not read your posts. I read his, in which he said his opinion was the 6 handled better. If you didn't say it does, that's fine. I was just saying that it's not a matter of his opinion, it is fact. Since I didn't read your posts, I didn't know you didn't say that. So, about my "whether he likes it or not" comment, I apologize. No need to insult, we are all adults here...most of us anyways....
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    To be honest, I really like the layout of the interior. I find that it fits with what Mazda is trying to do with "connecting" the car the driver with a "cockpit" type layout. That goes very well with the "zoom-zoom" philosophy. As for the quality of materials, it is near impossible to tell until we see them in person. From what I see, they seem right on par with everything else in this class. What seems to be clear is that the dash is in fact NOT plastic for the most part, and is actually the "squishy" foam type dash, like the current 6 has. If you look at the area around the "push start" button and gauge bezel, you can see that it is not plastic.

    As of right now, all we can go on is what we see in photos and Mazda's own comments on their dedication to using higher quality interior materials.
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