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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    :D I loved it, it made me laugh.

    If you'd rather, I can make like a tree and buzz off. :)
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Could get subtler and say "it's not brain science"...which does not even sound like a mixed metaphor.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I do think it can give a false sense of security at times,

    Right, and people who have huge Brembo brakes in their car have a false sense of security about being able to stop on a dime. Interesting how a positive can try to be turned into a negative.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,963
    How true must the auto enthusiast be to like convenience if it's available. Plus we are talking about midsize cars here not sports cars. I personally love my key fob that locks/unlocks the doors and opens the trunk. Does that make me not an auto enthusiast? I'm not a fan of the auto key/start button yet as I think some bugs still need to be worked out before I'm trusting enough both from dependability and security aspects. I know my daughter who has a newborn and a 1.5 year old loves the fact that she can just walk up and open the car as her arms seem to always be full.

    Oops. I forgot. I'm not sure she's an auto enthusiasts (although her and I do talk cars a lot) or not so she may not count. ;)
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    It is one thing to like a feature and another to give it an importance like there is no tomorrow. If getting the key out is a pain in the rear, I can't help but imagine how much pain turning the steering wheel etc might be, much less shifting manually, braking, accelerating... and still wanting to feel every bit of the road.

    Personally, I could do without added complexity and another thing to maintain. The fob battery dies, then what? You worry about going home in limp mode.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,671
    And we could do without your self-righteous diatribes about what you consider important or not important or what we should or shouldn't buy.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,963
    Right. It's all in the degree of want or need. I actually thought power windows were something I didn't need or even want due to expense and possible costly repair. This was back in the late sixties and seventies. After moving to an area that has lots of toll roads and having to go through 4 of them on my commute for awhile, I came to appreciate power windows. Now I wouldn't consider a midsize sedan without them. Hell, I don't even know if you can get a midsize sedan without them anymore.

    So I guess there is a wide spectrum between "I would like" and "absolutely can't live without".
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Power windows may be considered a safety feature actually. It lets you operate with little fuss WHILE you were driving. Between pressing a button on the fob, or expecting the car to read you, I don't see that urgency, or how it affects driving.

    In fact, a friend of mine bought an Altima. She lives in an area where carrying a can of mace is advised. A lot of attacks have happened when people get out of their car or are getting in. Couple of times she was driving, I noticed she had her key chain (with the mace can on it) safe and secure in her purse. When we got out the second time, I asked her whats the point of carrying the mace if it were in the purse? In the past, she would simply have the key in her hand and would be much more ready in case someone attacked her. This is a prime example of how things can make people less sensitive to surroundings.

    Giving a little more attention to what you're doing, be it driving or walking to or from your car, can go a long way. Someone didn't think about that, did they?
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    There's a great reason why most units of the best selling cars in America sell with four cylinder engines
    that reason would be purchase price (as opposed to FE) I would guess. The Camry V6 gets a whole 1 mpg less than its 4 cylinder counterpart yet costs about $2600.00 more - all this in a vehicle category that a $2k price difference can make a big difference to a buyer. That $2600.00 is really what the great power of the V6 costs (net of a higher value at trade-in), the difference in FE only amounts to a few bucks per year. 15k miles/years = 600 gallons of gas at 25 mpg, 15k at 24 mpg = 625 gallons = $75 dollars more gas at $3.00/gal - PER YEAR.
    And I agree a Camry SE V6, for example, in the hands of your average 16 year old would not be my first choice either - all good things should be used in moderation....
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Personally, I could do without added complexity and another thing to maintain. The fob battery dies, then what?

    That is why there is a full function metal key hidden in the credit card sized device. No need to limp home.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    that reason would be purchase price (as opposed to FE) I would guess.

    Not necessarily. When I got my Accord EX-L, it was $800 more than LXV6 and $1200 less than EXV6 (which was within my budged). So, price wasn't a factor, sensibility and features were. Automakers seem to be realizing it, as a result you can't get an Accord LXV6 anymore. People are buying Accord EX-L/NAVI over EXV6 without NAV. BTW, Accord EX-L/I-4 is only $100 less than Accord EXV6. Do you think that would make a difference?

    And if price were the sole factor, base trims should handily outsell the more expensive ones. That is not the case with cars like Accord.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Seems to me, if you have to have one hand free to open the door anyway, you can use that same hand to pull the key out and push the button. More gadgetry than convenience, if you ask me. I still don't see the big advantage.
  • Seems to me, if you have to have one hand free to open the door anyway, you can use that same hand to pull the key out and push the button.

    Pull the key out of what? Jeans pocket? Back pack? Purse? I guess if I was going to devote a hand to carrying my keys my entire life it wouldn't be such an issue.

    More gadgetry than convenience, if you ask me. I still don't see the big advantage.

    Yup, just like they said about microwaves before everyone got one.
  • Not necessarily. When I got my Accord EX-L, it was $800 more than LXV6 and $1200 less than EXV6 (which was within my budged). So, price wasn't a factor, sensibility and features were. Automakers seem to be realizing it, as a result you can't get an Accord LXV6 anymore. People are buying Accord EX-L/NAVI over EXV6 without NAV. BTW, Accord EX-L/I-4 is only $100 less than Accord EXV6. Do you think that would make a difference?

    Alas, my Accord EX I4/5M sedan was wayyyy cheaper than the V6/6M combo. I have no interest in something that shifts gears for me (unlock doors, yes, shift, no). I would be much more inclined to go with a V6 with a manual than a 4cyl with Nav. I don't travel out of my area enough with that car to warrant a nav system. Mapquest and Google maps have been fine so far.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    I think I can manage to pull the key out of my pocket and push the button with the same hand I will use to open the door. Is that too difficult for you? Small hands? uncoordinated?
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    A question. When you walk up to the car, will it unlock the driver's door only, or will it unlock all doors? If I am walking up to the car with stuff in my hands, I will usually put the stuff in the back seat, or the trunk, which I can do with my remote key.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    When I got my Accord EX-L, it was $800 more than LXV6 and $1200 less than EXV6 (which was within my budged). So, price wasn't a factor, sensibility and features were.

    Isn't that just another way of saying value (according to your wants) for the dollar spent?
  • I think I can manage to pull the key out of my pocket and push the button with the same hand I will use to open the door. Is that too difficult for you? Small hands? uncoordinated?

    Pretty much. With the infant carrier in one hand and the groceries in the other, its nice not to have to try to pull the keys out of my jeans pocket. Most of the coordination stuff got corrected with physical therapy already, thats why I can drive a manual trans.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    guess. The Camry V6 gets a whole 1 mpg less than its 4 cylinder counterpart yet costs about $2600.00 more - all this in a vehicle category that a $2k price difference can make a big difference to a buyer. That $2600.00 is really what the great power of the V6 costs (net of a higher value at trade-in), the difference in FE only amounts to a few bucks per year. 15k miles/years = 600 gallons of gas at 25 mpg, 15k at 24 mpg = 625 gallons = $75 dollars more gas at $3.00/gal - PER YEAR.

    For what it is worth, www.Fueleconomy.gov has combined fuel economy on the V6 Camry at 22 MPG, with the 4-cylinder having 25 MPG combined.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    It is. The want being features, not more power. I just don't see the point. And as gas prices go up, a larger chunk of the market would too.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    That is the point many of us Hyundai owners have been trying to make people understand; value for the dollar.

    The Sonata now offers the 4 cyl in all trim levels. If I had to buy now, I'd take a serious look at the Sonata Limited 4 cyl (it's only 8 HP less than my '05, 6 cyl).

    Anytime from 11/1 to 11/30/07 I could buy a Sonata Limited (with the optional floor mats) for $17,878 + $189 doc fee + ttl. That, to me is value for the dollar. The features and reliability are awesome. So far, my small business' Sonatas (there's only 2 of us), 2.5 year old '05 and 9 month old '07 have been flawless.

    Enjoy your Honda. It may be the best value for what you want.
  • I remember earlier in the year looking at the leaked redesigned pics of the 2008 Mazda6 and saying damn thats a nice car. I was all for buying one when it came out.... but then the hoopla died down, and a carryover from 07 was put out. What was that about? That was one of the few new cars I was looking forward to since the dissapointing Camry. I don't like the new design of the Accord, except in the coupe version. The 08 Malibu shows a promise.... but I hope they put that "redesigned" Mazda6 out in 09. Not that i'd buy one.... but it'd be a nice addition to see on the road. Cuz I get way too much pleasure outta zoom zooming buy the boring looking Mazda6's out there now in my lowley Platinum ed. Sonata.

    Oh... here's the link for the news and pics of the "new" Mazda6.

    http://www.autoblog.com/2007/09/06/2008-mazda6-breaks-early/
  • Yeah but what good is an extra 3 MPG if you can't merge onto the freeway at 80 MPH and dangerously pass everyone on the right?
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    Should see more exact plans at the Detroit Auto Show in January and the there are rumours that we should see the 09 Mazda6 in the second quarter of 08. I do emphasize rumors by the way! Anywho, reviews on the the new Mazda6 have started to hit european car mags and it suggests that the car is a bit more nimble due to weight loss, while increasing size and comfort. NVH have been reduced as well so for some this may be good (though I am perfectly happy with the current model's NVH). It still is not clear whether the hatchback or wagon version (both of which look great in the next generation Mazda6 imo, and I don't often, if ever, say that about wagons). I have the current Mazda6 hatchback and find it extremely useful for things like trips to IKEA, Home Depot, or business trips. So I hope Mazda doesn't give away one of it's huge advantages in the current market and not bring the next generation hatchback to North America.

    and as to boring and generic... while beauty is a personal judgement, I can't say many would say the sonata's exterior is anything but unoffensive.
    image
    image
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    If people can merge onto the freeway in a Yaris, a Fit, or heck, my 12 year old 130hp Accord, you can do so safely in a Camry 4-cylinder too. (I say this just in case you weren't being sarcastic).

    The Camry 4-cylinder is more lethargic than the current Honda 4-cylinder, but it's still better than many larger engines from 10 or 15 years ago, when the interstate speeds were still 70-85MPH.
  • Yeah but what good is an extra 3 MPG if you can't merge onto the freeway at 80 MPH and dangerously pass everyone on the right?

    If people can merge onto the freeway in a Yaris, a Fit, or heck, my 12 year old 130hp Accord, you can do so safely in a Camry 4-cylinder too. (I say this just in case you weren't being sarcastic).

    Yes, that last post of mine was complete sarcasm. Nobody needs to be going faster than 65 when merging onto the freeway. Passing on the right is dangerous --- unfortunately, many people just don't understand that.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,671
    The pictures of the redesigned Mazda6 were of the European version that is out for the 2008 model year. The U.S. version should arrive next year as an 09 model but will likely have different sheetmetal.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    perhaps the Mazda6 is suffering from a case of Ford-itis - things that are promised scheduled or otherwise publicized then magically happen late - or not at all.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    ummmm...what are you talking about? what date on the mazda6 has been delayed... I can understand people are impatient about the new mazda6 coming out b/c press reports have been very positive and the responses on sites like this and on autoblog were resoundingly enthusiastic, but there have not been dates released by Mazda that have not been met regarding the Mazda6 (mostly because mazda has released very few dates or details for the North American launch). Once again your efforts to sling mud are defeated by lacking one important element...facts.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    More gadgetry than convenience, if you ask me. I still don't see the big advantage.

    I originally agreed with you, however, after using them quite frequently, I find them really convenient
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