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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    This discussion about which cars can be discussed in this thread is becoming tiresome. The Malibu replacing the Aura because it's a better seller??? Oh brother. Both vehicles have been discussed here and both will continue to be discussed here.

    Below is a list to go by. They're not all classified as mid size vehicles by the EPA but they're either at the high end of the compact class or the low end of the full size class. I believe those in the auto industry would agree that all of these vehicles belong in the same segment.

    LaCrosse
    Impala
    Malibu
    Sebring
    Avenger
    Fusion
    Accord
    Sonata
    Optima
    6
    Milan
    Galant
    Altima
    G6
    Aura
    Legacy
    Camry
    Passat
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Sure, the Malibu (and the other cars in that list) should be, and are discussed here, but the Malibu is not included in the list for user reviews. I just think the Malibu should get the spot over the low-selling Aura. It's a very similar car, but with a larger audience.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,727
    Yes, exactly. That was the point. Not that we shouldn't discuss the Aura and other mid-sized cars that won't fit into the list you see on the right, but there's only so many cars that will fit there. Hence my suggestion of Malibu vs. Aura.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    That is a pretty good list, there are probably a few others. Anyway, I would think anything on Edmunds lists of midsize sedans would be fair game...at least up to some price point such as $30 or 35K.
  • Cant agree with that list.Impala in the same category with Optima? Imapala is bigger ,higher powered and more expensive.
  • I miss the days when we actually talked about the cars themselves instead of the EPA standards for fuel economy, or which cars should be included in "the list".

    Seriously, I'm getting bored of these pointless conversations, can we PLEASE move on?
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668

    Seriously, I'm getting bored of these pointless conversations, can we PLEASE move on?


    Do any, reasonably priced that is, mid-size sedans have turn signals in the outside rear-view mirrors? I think this a nice safety feature (and it's just plain neat). Quite a few Benzs have this feature, as do Caddys and a lot of SUVs. I think it should be a mandatory safety feature.

    Our 2007 SEL AWD Fusion has heated outside mirrors -- a nice feature -- and so-called puddle lamps, white lights on the bottom of the outside mirror that light up when the doors are unlocked. These are nice touches but blinkers in the mirrors would be even nicer.

    All Fusions also come with a steering wheels that tilt and telescope. A big plus when it comes to obtaining a good driving position.
  • Do any, reasonably priced that is, mid-size sedans have turn signals in the outside rear-view mirrors? I think this a nice safety feature (and it's just plain neat).

    It's not a deal-breaker for me, but I'd like my next car to have them. Unfortunately, some of the turn signals are only seen from the front/side or the rear. I think they should be seen from every angle for them to be effective.

    Even the repeater placed behind the front wheels works well also. My sister's Aura has them, and doesn't VW still include them on the Passat and/or Jetta as well?

    Our 2007 SEL AWD Fusion has heated outside mirrors -- a nice feature --

    The Mazda6 has them as well, and they should be standard in northern climates AFAIC.

    All Fusions also come with a steering wheels that tilt and telescope. A big plus when it comes to obtaining a good driving position.

    Are there any other cars in this class that does NOT have a tilt/telescope wheel? The wheel in my old Grand Am tilted, but no telescope, and it had notches where the wheel needed to be located, unlike the infinitely-variable tilt/telescope that my 6 has.
  • Do any, reasonably priced that is, mid-size sedans have turn signals in the outside rear-view mirrors?

    Honda, Subaru, VW pop into my head. I am sure there are more in the class.

    In the olden days, say back in 1995 or so they rage was to put "signal repeaters" on the front fenders. The tuner crowd figured out that everywhere the US market cars had a badge (the 24v badge on the Contour, the Accord had a trim piece in that spot) there was a "signal repeater" in another country. Thus, going trough the JDM/Euro parts catalogs would get the appropriate part to fit in that location.

    Actually, I assumed you were talking about the signals that were on the front of the mirror as opposed to the one on the face of the mirror like on the Expedition. I think that real estate might be given up to collision warning systems anyway.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    In the olden days, say back in 1995 or so ...

    Boy, you sure are a young whippersnapper, huh? 1995 = olden days. I've had my laugh for today.

    Actually my preferred position for the turn signal repeater is the outward edge of the outside rear-view mirror, so it can be seen from both front and back. I've only noticed a few cars with this feature and the models do not come immediately to mind.

    Honda has repeaters in the mirrors? Did not know that. What models? The Accord?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Our 2007 SEL AWD Fusion has heated outside mirrors -- a nice feature

    My 2006 4-cylinder Accord EX (I do not have the more upscale leather model) has heated mirrors as well. They may get used 10 days out of the year here in Birmingham, AL, and that's typically due to fog, not ice.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    I think they should be seen from every angle for them to be effective.

    Agreed. It defeats the purpose if they don't work that way.

    ... unlike the infinitely-variable tilt/telescope that my 6 has.

    Same for the Fusion. Very handy.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,006
    I like those repeaters in the side mirrors(since when did they start being called "outside rear view mirrors"?) as I think it cuts down on the people that leave their turn signals on. The turn signal sound is so low now that most people can't hear it and are leaving them on all the time. I personally do it sometimes as I like my steering wheel low and the rim blocks out the signal lights. In older cars the signal made a lot more noise (aggravating to some) and really prompted you to turn them off which is what they were supposed to do. I guess it doesn't matter much now that so few people even use their turn signals at all.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    I think they should be seen from every angle for them to be effective.

    Agreed. It defeats the purpose if they don't work that way.

    ... unlike the infinitely-variable tilt/telescope that my 6 has.

    Same for the Fusion. Very handy.
  • In the olden days, say back in 1995 or so ...

    Boy, you sure are a young whippersnapper, huh? 1995 = olden days. I've had my laugh for today.

    I am glad you got a chuckle, that was the intention. I'm not that young, just making a funny.

    My buddy refers to the repeaters on the mirror face of the SUVs as the blinker of death. I was driving with him in a Miata as the SUV next to us simultaneously signal and move over on a 4 lane freeway. Luckily there was no one behind me so I could brake fast enough to let the 3 ton barge go by, but when you look directly overhead and see that mirror blinking...I see how he found that name for them.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    My buddy refers to the repeaters on the mirror face of the SUVs as the blinker of death. I was driving with him in a Miata as the SUV next to us simultaneously signal and move over on a 4 lane freeway.

    Yet another humorous tidbit -- the blinker of death. Actually my wife and I had a Mazda Miata for a while. I always felt intimidated in it, especially when alongside the tank-like SUVs. I feel more comfortable in the Fusion. It's too bad I didn't have the Miata in my youth, when I would have appreciated it more (and had more fun with it).
  • We drove to Pa from Il this week and I actually saw two Auras on the road.Those were the first two Auras I have seen not at a dealer. :)
  • I think all of the KIA Optimas have heated power mirrors.Pretty sure it's the same for the Hyundai Sonatas.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    I think all of the KIA Optimas have heated power mirrors.Pretty sure it's the same for the Hyundai Sonatas.

    The SEL Fusions also have heated outside mirrors. The S and SE do not, however. I think FoMoCo is wise to offer just the three models of Fusion and only two Mercury Milans, standard and premium. It keeps things simple. There is just one Lincoln MKZ, I believe.
  • The SEL Fusions also have heated outside mirrors. The S and SE do not, however. I think FoMoCo is wise to offer just the three models of Fusion and only two Mercury Milans, standard and premium. It keeps things simple. There is just one Lincoln MKZ, I believe

    I think Ford would be wise to continue to follow the Honda example of DX/LX/EX (or S/SE/SEL) and bundle everything in as opposed to having 150 different options and configurations. It makes it less confusing for the consumer and it makes it easier to source and build. Fewer configurations means fewer parts, reduced complexity, easier build and theoretically, increased reliability and lower cost.
    Even Toyota has options at each trim level, although the higher you go, the fewer options left to choose. Honda actually defines the Nav system vehicles as different model numbers.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,727
    And, in response to the related question re tilt/telescopic wheels.... all trims of the Optima have that, but the Sonata doesn't have the telescopic wheel on the base (GLS) trim. Hyundai did the same thing with the Elantra, so maybe Hyundai thinks only people who can afford the up-level trims of their mid-sized sedans deserve a telescopic wheel. :surprise:
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    Honda actually defines the Nav system vehicles as different model numbers.

    I realize I am just an old fuddy duddy but all navigation systems seem like a waste of time and money to me. Maybe its because we take so few trips, live in a small community. I know they are a popular option but it's not something I would ever want in a car.
  • I realize I am just an old fuddy duddy but all navigation systems seem like a waste of time and money to me. Maybe its because we take so few trips, live in a small community. I know they are a popular option but it's not something I would ever want in a car.

    I think its partially a price point thing. At $2k its hard to justify vs stopping at AAA and getting a trip-tik or something, but if you travel a lot, or if you are looking for specific locations, it can be really handy. Some work I did in grad school centered around nav systems and I usually had one in my vehicle, so I got somewhat spoiled.
    It's been very handy on trips when I had to cut through unfamiliar territory to get around a highway back-up/road construction or looking for a restaurant in a foreign town.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    ... but if you travel a lot, or if you are looking for specific locations, it can be really handy.

    I can see where some people could get a lot of use out of a nav system, but certainly not a majority of drivers. Still, probably a "must-have" for the gadget-conscious consumer.
  • I think Ford would be wise to continue to follow the Honda example of DX/LX/EX (or S/SE/SEL) and bundle everything in as opposed to having 150 different options and configurations. It makes it less confusing for the consumer and it makes it easier to source and build. Fewer configurations means fewer parts, reduced complexity, easier build and theoretically, increased reliability and lower cost.

    It may lower the bottom line, but I'm sure they're plenty of car buyers that would rather have one or two options, instead of having to buy a model with options he/she doesn't want or need just to get what they want. Why should I be forced with a leather interior if I want a moonroof? Or be stuck with an overpriced Nav system just to get HIDs?

    "Fewer parts, reduced complexity"? Not if someone has to deal with a integrated Nav system just to play a CD. "Increased reliability"? I doubt that too, especially when said Nav system breaks down, and takes out the radio with it.

    Bundling may save $$$ and complexity, but only for the automaker, not the consumer.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    I'm sure they're plenty of car buyers that would rather have one or two options, instead of having to buy a model with options he/she doesn't want or need just to get what they want.

    I doubt anyone gets exactly what they want, and don't want, when they buy a car. I want leather seats, but I would rather have manual adjustments for them, instead of power. I don't think any car can be optioned that way, so I have come to the conclusion that I will never get a car optioned exactly the way I want it. There are just too many options/combinations for each person to be completely satisfied.
  • mrsyjmrsyj Posts: 77
    I have likely seen 50+ Auras on the road since the car came out. I don't go a single week without seeing a few. I cant imagine that there are still people who have not seen one on the road yet.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    I've seen two Auras on the road (it may have been the same one seen twice). I have seen more 08 Accords on the road (probably 10 so far). There are no Saturn dealers in my local area (40 miles).
  • I can see where some people could get a lot of use out of a nav system, but certainly not a majority of drivers. Still, probably a "must-have" for the gadget-conscious consumer.

    There is a slippery slope when one projects their needs and buying habits into a broader population. Your particular driving habits might not necessitate a navigation system, but when you only drive 5000 mi/yr, you probably aren't going very far or very often. A navigation system, for a multitude of reasons, can be very handy. The issue might stem from the $2k price, but as that drops under a grand, it will be more feasible.
  • It may lower the bottom line, but I'm sure they're plenty of car buyers that would rather have one or two options, instead of having to buy a model with options he/she doesn't want or need just to get what they want. Why should I be forced with a leather interior if I want a moonroof? Or be stuck with an overpriced Nav system just to get HIDs?

    Understanding how to pick the trim levels and what features should be standard on each model is the role of the market research team. Because Mazda (and VW) does a poor job of it doesn't mean its a bad idea.

    "Fewer parts, reduced complexity"? Not if someone has to deal with a integrated Nav system just to play a CD. "Increased reliability"? I doubt that too, especially when said Nav system breaks down, and takes out the radio with it.

    I can't think of any non-premium vehicle currently available that requires getting a navigation system for any other features.

    The fewer components and variations you have, the fewer parts required to be stocked, the fewer chances of someone picking the wrong one, and the lower percentage of one of those parts being bad (volume on steady state manufacturing is a good thing). The tier 1 suppliers and integrators have fewer components to contend with, and can spend more time developing each one vs having to divide that time and resources over more products (re end of Oldsmobile, Plymouth).

    Bundling may save $$$ and complexity, but only for the automaker, not the consumer.

    Riiight, because if the automaker can spend less money designing and building the car, it would never occur to them to make the car cheaper...
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