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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Oh I do. I know a relative driving the same VW he had in college. But then again, it is a rather simple piece of machinery. New cars may not be around more than a couple decades. L
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Its the same block. The old 3.0 and the new 3.5 should be about the same size, and the 3.5 may actually be lighter.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I already responded earlier, those buttons are big enough for all but hulk-sized fingers (even with gloves on). If 1 inch by 3/4 inch button is small, what is that tiny slider knob going to do?

    You may like rotary dial or slider knob, for me that is 80s/90s era. I prefer point and shoot.

    As for manual ac over auto climate control, latter is still a luxury, but will likely become a norm eventually. At home, I prefer leaving the thermostat in auto mode. And don't like vents blowing air on my face. If I needed air, I would by a pedestal fan. :D
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    If I were to buy a 1-2 year old car, I would look for certified cars like those from Honda, Acura and Lexus. You get extended warranty with those, much more than the base warranty.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    AGain, proven companies don't need a warranty, unproven one's do.

    I am wondering then why Lexus' warranty is longer than Toyota's and why Acura's is longer than Honda's. I consider Lexus and Acura to be proven companies. :confuse:
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I wonder how many people trade for a new car at least partly so they can get a new-car warranty and not be at risk to pay for expensive repairs, especially to the powertrain e.g. automatic transmissions that are very expensive to fix/replace.

    That would be being penny wise, pound foolish. With new cars, you lose money when one drives car off the lot (a lot more than a transmission repair might cost), and then comes monthly payments.

    I considered trading my 1998 Accord when it hit 100K mile mark. The idea wasn't around saving money from repairs, but the new car factor. Then I realized, if I have a car that was paid off in 2.5 years, has absolutely no problem, why splurge?

    A few years later, the same thought came back. I finally did buy a second car, but only because I have been driving a lot and found an exceptional deal on a car I wanted (TL).

    Ten years and 181K+ miles later, I can reflect back and consider not having made a single loan payment in 7.5 years on the Accord, and only expense has been around gas and scheduled maintenance. $15 radiator hose doesn't count.

    IMO, it is a bad idea to buy a new car based on the fear that it might start giving you trouble. Unless, you opted for a car with a proven history of problems, then you got into trouble by choice and deserve it. Unless repair costs almost equal monthly payments, I don't consider it a bright idea to buy new.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Additional warranties and stuff in Lexus and Acura are sold as an incentive to buy those brands. They aren't doing that to show to the world that they are any more reliable.

    Or, are you still trying to make a point that longer warranty = better quality?
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Yesterday, at the local Cadillac dealership, they had an '07 base CTS parked next to an '08 CTS fully loaded - direct injection and blah, blah, blah extras. The '07 is $31K before any discounts, but that new '08 is $47K. I kid you not! What, a baby Caddy? They look pretty close, though the new one has less balance to it. Seems like the eye goes to that overdone front, and kinda stays there. Looks like the Cadillac emblem is looming large these days, as it is now closer to that of a Frisbee. If you could say bargain the base '07 down to a cost of $29K, it would make the difference between the two some $19K. Now, take $2K off the overpriced '08 and it is still $17K difference. Heck, you could buy another car to run around town with and keep the Caddy for the longer drives, with that sort of pricing.

    Here is another jaw dropper; a Volvo C30 for $31K. Has the World gone made? Loren
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    Or, are you still trying to make a point that longer warranty = better quality?

    I, for one, don't believe a longer warranty equals better quality. However, a longer warranty certainly does have the potential to be a real money-saver should an engine or transmission decide to self-destruct.

    A life insurance policy for a drive train is a good thing; the longer the better. It's common sense.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Oh heavens, there have been warranty wars since I was a child. Chrysler ups warranty, then GM & Ford would up their warranty, which in turn would lead to yet another one upsmanship. Many years ago that was the famous 7 yr. plan, and in more recent times it is, well the 7/70K plan, which in turn gets beat by the 10 year plan of Hyundai, and now ends with the Chrysler lifetime warranty. Somewhere in the middle of all this is the GM 5 limited 100K plan.

    Guess the real question to ask is would you buy a car you did not like, just because it has a longer warranty, so you can be miserable for a longer period of time? If you had two cars in mind, which both seemed very-very fine to you, then a warranty difference could tip the scale. It is all about adding up that which is good, that which is mediocre, and that which is less in a car when comparing, so yes, the warranty is important as a part of the buying decission. Due to $85 per hour labor and so much electronics, and more high tech transmissions, which are expensive, and such, the warranty becomes a bit more important than it once was for those keeping a car for many years. Cars hold up well, and last a good long time, but what will happen to the technowizard cars of today ten to twenty years down the road? Alas, so many buy or lease every three to five years, it becomes someone else's worry.L
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I don't expect my cars to have major warranty related issues under 100K miles anyway. If there were, I probably won't settle for that brand.

    When the dealership tried to sell extended warranty to me on the Accord, I smiled and said, no thanks. I'm here for a reason, instead of signing papers at the VW dealership couple of miles down the road.

    $900 (the number I was quoted for extended warranty) would have expired 4 years and 81K miles ago, and without getting used.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    I had a PT with the 7/70 plan, which was good, but have now sold the car, and don't see me in a Chrysler any time soon. That said, what is the deal with this lifetime warranty. Is that not one of those, "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" , things? Or do they rob Peter to pay Paul? Is the bumper to bumper then 3 years? That is not so bad I guess. One could a be a smarty and ask if that is the life of the car, or the life of the company, but I won't do that :P . Guess it is a good thing they offer here, though perhaps not as good as the Hyundai plan. Guess it all boils down to fitting the need of the individual.

    If I was to be choosing between a Sonata and a Sebring, I am sure it would take all of one second; the Sonata is the car, but due to warranty so much as every other element of the buying decision, then one can add the nice warranty. Same goes for the car I did buy, the Honda, which has shorter warranty. Simply can not see driving what you could not stand to own just to get a lifetime warranty. Now perhaps a Dodge Charger or 300 would be much nicer, and thus throwing in the warranty is a bit more candy. And yeap, Honda, please feel free to offer more warranty in the future. :shades:
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    I have never bought a car warranty, but isn't an Accord 5 sp. tranny like some $5K to replace? Just thinking down the road a ways here.....
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I wouldn't know. :)

    I will be surprised if any transmission in mainstream cars would cost as much to replace.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    From what I have seen, certified means they have added yet another thousand or two to the price. It is like a $15K private buy, becomes a dealership $17 to $18K buy, which gets upped another notch to $18k to 20K when it is a certified car. Which, to me is certifiably crazy. I have seen USED Scion tC cars on the lot for the same or higher pricing than a new one. Just nutso! Is this just not adding $2K in warranty. I realize they are suppose to do all this checking and fixing, but for at least Ford dealership I went to, this was NOT the case. Tested a Mustang with a grinding sound from the front drivers side wheel, and a clunk when it went back into first on a stop. Then I test drove another Mustang, from the same dealership, and told the salesman, " hey look the check engine light is on." Then there was the Sonata test drive. I wanted to use a used one to test out how it accelerate and such. Well I tried to adjust the lumbar support and the lever fell to the floor.

    While you hope to be getting a better car, inspection wise and well serviced, I do wonder. Perhaps it is not worth the extra paid over the private buying of a car. Seem to save $2K to $4K. That said, a dealership, once bargained down price may be closer; say $1K difference???
    Loren
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I worry about price on a car when I start to negotiate. On a new car, it starts with MSRP, and on used, depending on age and mileage. I won't pay whatever the dealer tells me. I did just that on 2006 TL a little over a year ago, paid $28K for a 1 year old car (MSRP $36K). :)

    There are plenty of private buyers that try to overprice their cars anyway.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    I don't recall saying anything like that. I was asking why Lexus and Acura have longer warranties than their non-luxury counterparts even though there was an assertion that proven companies don't need long warranties.

    Personally I think companies offer long warranties for two reasons:

    * Buyer expectation: this applies to luxury brands, i.e. people expect a better warranty when they pay a lot more money for, say, a TL than an Accord.

    * A way to stand out from the competition: this applies to brands like Hyundai/Kia, Mitsubishi, Suzuki, GM, Ford, and Chrysler. There are only so many ways to stand out from the competition in the mid-sized family car class. You can do it with features (and some do that), you can do it with power (some do that), you can do it with a reputation for quality and reliability (ala Toyota and Honda), you can do it with price, etc. It's expensive to add features and you can't build a reputation for quality and reliability overnight, and prices can only go down so far. But you can add a longer warranty overnight. As long as your product quality is OK, it won't cost the manufacturer much to do it and may actually help improve long-term reliability scores because people may tend to have their cars serviced better knowing that if they don't, it could void the warranty.

    I am rather puzzled as to why Honda, Toyota, and Mazda among others grant competitors this advantage. It would cost them very little to offer longer warranties (at least I think it would) and it would take away a competitive differentiator.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Probably not that much. For example, a friend of mine recently replaced the failed 5-speed tranny on his Odyssey (about 90k miles) and the cost would have been around $3000 had he not had an extended warranty.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I am rather puzzled as to why Honda, Toyota, and Mazda among others grant competitors this advantage. It would cost them very little to offer longer warranties (at least I think it would) and it would take away a competitive differentiator.

    Because they don't need it, like Chrysler, GM, Suzuki, Isuzu, Hyundai and Kia have. Do you think if Hyundai didn't have the reputation that it did, they would still offer that warranty? No.

    When a company struggles to do business, they need steps that helps them grab attention. Look at Chrysler. Why did they start offering lifetime warranty in the middle of the year? Because their sales suck. This is yet another marketing strategy to get customers to their door step and not unlike offering massive rebates. Many automakers don't need it, or not to exceptional levels. Why would they do it?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Maybe, for example, because the increase in sales of Sonatas to individuals over the past two years is coming from someplace?

    When you have up-and-coming competitors like Hyundai and Kia, and desparate competitors like Chrysler and Mitsubishi, you don't wait for them to get in better health before taking action. You try to kill them, or hurt them, when they are relatively small and weak.

    Maybe if Honda, for example, had offered a longer warranty on the last-gen Accord, they would not have had to offer such large incentives--and even then see its sales fall off.
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