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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Incentives have to be offered on clearance. Are you telling Hyundai and these other automakers that offer long warranty don't have to offer incentives?

    Seriously, I find it rather amusing that you dig really hard to find things to talk against anything but Hyundai.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,626
    That is not what I said.

    Glad you find my posts so amusing, but why not stick to cars rather than taking jabs at those who have a different opinion than you do?
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I prefer point and shoot.

    What does this mean :confuse: ?

    At home, I prefer leaving the thermostat in auto mode. And don't like vents blowing air on my face.

    Yes, well that is not a very good anaology, there really are not a lot of similarities there. One difference is when I walk into my house it is not over 100 degrees from sitting in the sun all day, like the car.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    Some pics to hopefully distract people from the warranty discussion (yawwwn...)

    image
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    I like those I beams - very cool. This is a covered parking garage, which is a tough of class, no doubt. So what car is that with the big butt? It is getting to the point, when in a darkened view, they all look the same. Is it the Mazda6? L
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Looks like Monday it is strike a deal, or strike GM day for the Union. Yet another element of a buying decision, the stability of the company selling the vehicle. Could come a day when GM pulls out of the manufacturing in USA and Canada. Not saying it is planning on doing so, but it sure looks like profits would be greater, and it is tempting to manufacture elsewhere, as they seem to be doing better at selling elsewhere, such as the popularity in China. Another what if, is that GM could decide to go into bankruptcy, after or during a strike period, and start over as a leaner company, not necessarily as a USA manufacturing based one. Just a thought. What would this do to the USA economy, and the stock and bond markets if GM just said, we throw in the towel, the debt is too much and we can no longer make it?

    Management these days may be thinking a bit farther ahead than in the past, and the Unions perhaps may want to consider all possibilities at this stage of the game. A high stakes chess match is soon to unfold. L
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    Fortunately the Mazda6 has projector type headlights, so changing the halogens over to HID's doesn't create much glare for oncoming traffic. But I can see more when driving at night, so I love having them.

    I used a fisheye lens for that pic and although I tried to use the de-fishing part of my picture developing program, but there are still some minor proportion issues in that pic. The angle also accentuates the rear of the car a bit too, but maybe the Mazda6 does have a big butt (I don't personally think it is too big since my view out the back is good so reversing is safe).

    I just put on some window visors (although the pic is a bit dark and small so it may be hard to see) but ever since then, I've been getting nice comments from people (mostly from people I don't even know) saying how they like how my car looks. I'd like my car without these compliments of course, but its nice that other people also see my car as good looking enough to tell a total stranger and not looking like everyone else's where they wouldn't even notice it.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I had to say it after seeing your “points” that relate more about dismissing Accord. Here is another example.

    I was thinking that the 2008 Accord is probably one of the worst uses of extra size I've seen in a car. Consider that the sedan is 3 inches longer (to 194.1") and the wheelbase is 2.3 inches longer, and yet there is only 0.3" more overall leg room (+0.4" in back, -0.1" in front). And the trunk is only 14 cubic feet, less than in some compact sedans. Where did all that extra length go? At least the interior width is up by 1.5" with only a 1.1" increase in exterior width, and the front passengers get 1" more headroom from the 0.9" increase in height (no change for the rear).

    Yet, and you either missed it or deliberately left it out, all those increases have added up to increase the interior volume to 106 cu ft, larger than any of its direct competitors and on par with bigger cars. As for trunk space, Honda’s approach to use a 5-link double wishbone in the rear (as opposed to less bulky but simpler multi-link/torsion beam/MacPherson Struts suspension that others use) eats up space. In addition to that, I don’t know if everybody uses a common standard to calculate trunk space. Honda uses VDA method globally, and it results in a smaller number compared to other standards as it disregards small nooks and crevices (akin to filling up cargo with sand/water and measuring the volume versus using standard size blocks to measure volume, the latter is VDA process).

    That said, overall length is not a good measure to draw the conclusion you just did. A car can be longer for a lot of reasons (for that matter, Accord V6 is slightly longer than Accord I-4, and that is due to a lip spoiler which is standard in V6, and as you may have guessed by now, it doesn’t add to the interior volume). First generation TL was a compact sedan and actually only 2” shorter than this Accord. Acura RL has the same exterior dimensions as this Accord (including the wheelbase), and it is about 3 cu ft smaller.

    Bumpers and shape of cars can contribute to additional length too. Compare Camry or 300 to Accord. Honda went for a real bumper (which adds 1-2 inch to the length). Camry and 300 have no bumper. The Toyota and Chrysler are also flat nosed. Accord’s nose has a slight tapering (additional couple of inches). An inch or so might be extra in the rear bumper. Add them all up, and you will figure out that not always do a car’s length dictate interior volume.

    And that aint no opinion. :)
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I don't think your explanations have anything to do with the wheelbase, which increased by 2.3 inches. Where did that 2.3 inches go?

    BTW, the same question would apply to the Fusion vs. the Mazda6. Fusion stretched wheel base by 2.1 inches, but only 0.5 inch of that shows up in increased leg room.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Explain to me how did Accord gain 3 cu ft? You guys are making it sound like the increase in dimensions went nowhere.

    And no, wheelbase doesn't explain legroom. Do you think Chrysler 300, which has 120" wheelbase (10" more than Accord) offers almost as much advantage in legroom? Accord has 80", while 300 has 82" (total).

    Altima's wheelbase is about an inch shorter than Accord's, but it has about 2" less legroom than the Accord. Again, is it all determined by wheelbase?

    Besides, measurements are one thing, reality is another. The points of measurements are critical in the outcome.
  • Explain to me how did Accord gain 3 cu ft? You guys are making it sound like the increase in dimensions went nowhere.

    Width is a big chunk of that, I bet.

    I think a lot of length went into the fact that the car has more style (good or bad) than the previous more practically shaped model. Same thing happened with the Civic I think.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    My opinion on the new Accord...
    Like the overall exterior design. Lack of standard bodyside mouldings and bulging headlights are two items I would change.
    Climate and audio seem to be a bit busy with too many buttons. I'd prefer more dials though after I spent more time with the car it might change my opinion.

    Did not drive it, so no driving impression.

    Will be interesting to compare it with the new Mazda6 and Malibu once they are available.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    This is where I don't find a lot of importance in the cabin volume stat... if it doesn't result in more room for the passenger or driver as measured by leg room or shoulder room, what good is it? Who knows, maybe some of this extra square feet is below the windshield or back window in which case it has little impact on passenger comfort. To me, passenger comfort is more related to the space that a person needs to fit in so leg room and body room are the key measurements not cabin volume. Volume is important for a trunk, though, since that is where you will put stuff anywhere in it's area and not in assigned spots like people.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    There is a fractional gain in leg room, and some of the use of length may have gone into the trunk space. I mentioned VDA method for that reason and since we're nitpicking on inches, if the additional space isn't large enough for a "VDA block", it is left unaccounted for.

    Accord's primary gain in interior volume comes in front seat headroom, shoulder room and hip room (which saw the most improvement but it is not a part of cabin volume measurements, only legroom, headroom and shoulder room are).

    As for width, Honda added 1.5" to the track which brings with it a shorter turning radius than 2007 despite of longer wheelbase and larger tires. The track grew more than the overall width, which also provides for a squarish footprint for greater stability, a Honda tradition.

    Longer wheelbase is used primarily to improve ride quality. Also worth noting is that Honda bumped up the size of the fuel tank from 17.1 to 18.5 and moved it further, but lower, towards the front.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    As I mentioned in my previous post, cabin volume accounts for only:
    Head room (front and rear)
    Leg room (front and rear)
    Shoulder room (front and rear)

    So, it doesn’t account for space under the windshield or the rear glass. You can’t add space under the windshield and add EPA volume to the size. At least one of the three measurements quoted above will have to change.

    That said, those measurements don’t necessarily depict everything. There are set points from which those measurements are performed. So, if I were measuring leg room, I could push the lower part of dash further at that point and advertise a longer legroom (and in turn, gain EPA volume). But it is unlikely to be appreciated in reality unless people fit those measurement criteria.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    But a double wishbone suspension is a good thing. Perhaps more costly to manufacture, but a good thing for handling no doubt. If I needed more trunk space, I guess a minivan or suv may be the call of the day. Honda trunks look large to me, but then again I once owned a Corolla and a Miata, so any trunk looks huge. ;) L
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Yep. In Accord, double wishbone is not for namesake. To me, it is a huge selling point. Someone who notices small things will really appreciate what it brings to the plate.

    To me, 14 cu ft of useful space is plenty. There are a few cars with as much or more advertised volume but not as practical. I fit more stuff and easily in my Accord (also attributable to wider openings). I have never understood why people want more (Taurus, for example, has a whopping 21 cu ft of trunk space).
  • Well that's a REALLY easy answer -

    I took a road trip to Oklahoma City (750 miles away) with two friends this summer. We spent 6 days, and had the clothes for a trip of this duration. My 2006 Accord's trunk was at capacity with all of our "stuff." We originally had 4 of us going total, and I'm glad we didn't; we couldn't have fit the last persons stuff in without leaving some things behind.

    When you can have more without a penalty elsewhere, more will always be better than less.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Assuming equal space distribution for the three of you, the fourth person would have forced you to have at least 19 cu ft of trunk space. Perhaps only Taurus would have worked in that case. :D
  • Personally i'd take more legroom in the backseat(although I never sit in the back) or possibly a reclining back seat(nice touch that utilizes extra trunk space) over a larger trunk anyday. My Sonata's trunk has plenty o' space, i've yet to run into an instance where I didn't have enough cargo space.
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