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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,278
    My 2003 Accord V6 Coupe sold for 53% of its out the door cost of when I bought it. This was 50 months and 65,000 miles later. It works out to a cost of $235/month. Not too shabby.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    I see quite a bit in the North. And, quite a few were Milans - both to my surprises.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    KBB is not in the car business. They do not buy, or sell cars. KBB is a publisher. They make money offering you free estimates on vehicles by having sponsors on their site. What reputable company do that?

    You're in the car business so I'm sure you know more about how accurate KBB is... I'm sure KBB is just a guide, kind of like the weatherman. Thing is, even though the weatherman is often wrong, I still listen cuz it's better info than what I could usually come up with on my own.

    How long has KBB been around anyway? I'm sure they were around before the internet was big... long enough to have a decent level of credibility anyway. If they were a total joke and just randomly fixed values to cars who would go to their site? Nobody, which would mean zero ad revenue.

    Now I'm not saying KBB is totally accurate... I'm sure there are many instances where it's a bit off. But I don't think they randomly choose numbers either. So they are a referrence point that many people use when buying or selling a car... As an individual who is not in the car business, how would I ever know what a car is worth were it not for resources like KBB? Am I to go to the nearest car lot and trust what they tell me? Or should I ask captain2 since he seems to know exactly how much I could sell my car for?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Leave it to Honda to show us how to do more with less

    "Make no mistake: the Honda Accord is a terrific automobile no matter how it comes, but it also compels us to consider something we don’t think about too often: at what point does horsepower become truly superfluous? Especially as fuel efficiency and low emissions, both longstanding hallmarks of the Honda brand, become more important than ever before, we are looking for cars that are both fun to drive and easy on the earth.

    We just found one."
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    In fact, with a starting price of $20,995, the Accord is the least expensive full-size automobile available today. We’re sure that’s no accident, as size matters in America as it does in no other country in the world.

    I think they left out the $17k Sonata...dummies!
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    I think they left out the $17k Sonata...dummies!

    Is the Sonata officially full-size though? The Accord sedan (coupe is shorter) just hit the magic number to be classified as such but IIRC the sonata is a couple of inches shorter which keeps it in mid-sized land. No?

    If I were shopping for a full-sizer, the Accord would be at the bottom of my list. Have you ever seen the room inside the cabins and trunks of the Accord's competitors, Taurus and Avalon? They rival some living rooms I've been in. :P
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    Is the Sonata officially full-size though?

    From all the sources I've seen, yes.
  • colloquorcolloquor Posts: 482
    I've been a subscriber to most auto enthusiast magazines for over 30 years, 40 in the case of Road & Track. My profession is magazine publishing, not on the editorial side of the ledger, but the business side (display advertising). Although ideally there is supposed to be a definitive line of demarcation between editorial and advertising in the print media business, the reality is more pragmatic - advertising, and the amount a company places in a magazine, does certainly impact editorial.

    If Honda, or Hyundai, Toyota, etc., would pull its display advertising from C&D, it would be interesting to see what they would have to say about any, or all, of their vehicles.

    Given my experience, I would not take anything written in advertising-supported print media as gospel. FWIW, news stand and subscription sales of major monthly consumer magazines pay for the only the fixed cost administrative and production expenses. Without display advertising revenue, the magazine(s) would cease publication.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Bingo. While we sit here discussing models and proclaim one is "better" than the other, there are a bunch of numbers known as sales figures that really tell the story.

    For example, it is said the Sonota is a "better value" than the Accord, but when will America wake up and realize this?
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Is the Sonata officially full-size though?

    EPA certified since 2005:
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Are there people out there that are going to get better then $3,300 off MSRP on a Mazda6? Probably.

    I am one who did, I got about $5000 off on a sport value automatic (this included a $2000 rebate) back in Jan. If like me, one is able to get a better than average discount on a car this reduces the depreciation.

    I paid $16,124 (after adding back in document fee) for a car where the average deal is perhaps more like $18,000??? If the average depreciation is 1/3 in the first two years, the car would then be worth $12,000. This would mean my depreciation would be around 25%. Also my loss of value would be "only" about $4000 vs. the typical $6000. Not that I plan to sell anytime in the next decade, anyway :D .

    The particular deal one gets can have more impact on one's personal depreciation than whatever the average depreciation figures show. I am pretty sure I will lose less to depreciation on my Mazda6, than I would have had I gotten an average deal on an Accord...of course a lilengineerboy discount on an Accord would be a different matter.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    So are we now accepting EPA's decree on the size class of cars? If so, Pontiac G6, Accord coupe, and Subaru Legacy are compact not midsize.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    It's always been EPA. We are talking about dimensions - usable space (size class), not market class.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855

    EPA size class is compact for the cars I listed.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Better value generally only translates to sales leader for commodity items. Car buyers never buy on price alone. Well, almost never - I did know ONE guy that did many years ago.

    Even value minded car buyers have subjective preferences for styling, features and performance.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248

    The C/D article had the Accord as a full-sizer, according to EPA. thegraduate and I pointed out the Sonata is also classified as full-size per EPA.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    And...who cares what EPA "size class" is. It is a silly way to classify cars. The only purpose of that is to decide which vehicles are included on the mpg sticker for comparison.

    Maybe my point about the cars classified as "compact" was too subtle or do you argree with EPA that the those vehicles are compacts? Does the Legacy compete with the Accord (sedan) or the Civic...or maybe neither...or maybe only with the Accord Sedan sans sunroof? How about the G6...does it compete with the midsize (and kinda similar ;) ) malibu or the compact Cobalt?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I've heard that one before. So, what did you disagree with in that test drive? Other than two errors I noted. One, Accord V6's pre-PZEV rating was 273 HP which they have stuck with, PZEV version is 268 HP). And two, they forgot Sonata is another full size car. But perhaps because, Sonata is a forgettable car? :P

    J/k. I appreciate its qualities, and I'm sure it works well for a lot of folks. But it doesn't appeal to me. And I think C&D is one of the rare automotive source that actually knows a thing or two about cars, or it might be because I too see some of the things that they note in their tests. Must be in the driving style.
  • Maybe my point about the cars classified as "compact" was too subtle or do you argree with EPA that the those vehicles are compacts? Does the Legacy compete with the Accord (sedan) or the Civic...or maybe neither...or maybe only with the Accord Sedan sans sunroof? How about the G6...does it compete with the midsize (and kinda similar ) malibu or the compact Cobalt?

    Actually, that raises a good point. The new Accord to me seems like the Avalon and Maxima, so I do consider them in another class. The old Accord (03-07) is noticeably bigger than the Legacy of the same time frame, but they might be close enough to be in the same category. How big is the Passat, that car seems huge to me as well. The G6 always seemed snugger than the Malibu, so maybe that difference is big enough to make the G6 compete with the Cobalt or maybe not. That doesn't mean the car doesn't have a place even if its closer to a smaller car. My Contour wasn't much bigger than an Escort but I liked it a lot more.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Car buyers never buy on price alone.

    I start with an upper limit on price, and get the car that offers me the best combination of everything I care for. So, I don't take price out of the picture, in fact it is the starting point to consider a bunch of options out there. I'm not one to compare a Mercedes E55 AMG to a mainstream family sedan. Price alone determines that. Next are the attributes of the car, again, within a price range.
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