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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Actually I was referring to those revolutions that the tach counts. :shades:
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Different perceptions, different points, different explanations....same conclusions...
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    So you would let an advertising slogan affect whether you take a car for a test drive or not?

    Yes. I have found that when I can relate to the advertising the product usually fits also. At least with products in this price range. When commericials annoy me I don't buy the product. Of course I don't have a choice with electric, water and sewer. :shades
  • karsickkarsick Posts: 312
    I can relate to advertising that treats me intelligently.

    Example: When, in the 1960's, VW humorously displayed every Beetle model year (almost indistinguishable) side-by-side from 1948 to 1966, they were showing the consumer that if you're willing to give up yearly styling fripperies, you can buy a car that ENGINEERS had updated, not STYLISTS & HUCKSTERS. :P
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    Ford doesn't have the capacity to build enough 3.5/3.7s for themselves right now, much less for Ford and Mazda.

    They will later in the year when both Lima plants are at full speed again. One and a half of the two plants were undergoing heavy re-tooling which is a big reason for the low capacity to produce the D35 until recently. Hence my speculation as to the Mazda 3.7L possibly being produced here.

    I also just read the 2009 Lincoln MKS order guide and the Duratec37 for that car is rated at 270 HP and 265 ft-lbs of torque. Sound familiar? Might it make financial sense to build that motor for 2 cars rather than one low volume car?
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Maybe that is why I have no interest in a Mazda, the "zoom-zoom" philosophy is a turn off. Nissans "shift" philosophy is the same turn off, and I've owned 3 in the past.

    So, you would not buy a Mazda because it is sporty? If that's your cup of tea, that's fine. "zoom-zoom" expresses how Mazda build cars. Ultimately, it is a combination of marketing and brand definition. "shift" by Nissan is more along the line of marketing only.

    Not buying a car due to a manufacturers marketing theme is just silly. Not buying a car because you don't like it actually holds weight. If I said I would not buy a Honda because Kevin Spacy is the voice is all of there commercials, and I am not a fan of him, would be just dumb, right?

    Bottom line, buy the car you like, and don't pass judgment on the car because of how it is marketed.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Might it make financial sense to build that motor for 2 cars rather than one low volume car ?

    Well, all of Mazdas trannys come from Japan. Maybe they would send the v6 engine attached w/ the tranny to save shipping costs? In reality, we will have to wait and see.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    So, you would not buy a Mazda because it is sporty

    I wouldn't buy a Mazda because the adverts don't appeal to me and I don't find the attributes of the car appealing either.

    If I said I would not buy a Honda because Kevin Spacy is the voice is all of there commercials, and I am not a fan of him, would be just dumb, right?

    If you are spending $25 large or so on a car, who am I to judge your rational. This is your hard earned money, not mine. If you asked my opinion I might give it to you, but judge you on it. Never!
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    Well, all of Mazdas trannys come from Japan. Maybe they would send the v6 engine attached w/ the tranny to save shipping costs? In reality, we will have to wait and see.

    Good point. That would make more sense. But the trannies they use aren't built by Mazda so bolting them together in Japan and shipping them here could end up costing even more because you would then be shipping one of the parts twice to get it here.

    I guess we will have to wait and see. Like I said, I don't really care where the engine is built because both the Ohio and Japan Duratec plants are very good now. I'm more curious about what else FMC is going to drop the D37 into because I seriously doubt the Lima plant is going to produce a handful of them for the MKS only. They have been very good about keeping costs at bay lately and doing that would be a step backwards IMO. Making the D37 for 2 cars makes a load of sense however.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,727
    PLEASE don't let my wife know that Kevin Spacey is the spokesman for Honda; she'll insist we buy one no matter what! :)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    If you asked my opinion I might give it to you, but judge you on it. Never!

    I will never judge, however, I am inclined to disagree, which is fair game. I think we can agree on that.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    There are pictures on the internet. The styling looks similar to the previous pics shown that were thought to be only for Japan.

    The styling is one of the best features of the car.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    There are pictures on the internet.

    Could you elaborate on this "internet" thing please?

    Sorry, couldn't resist. :shades:

    Give me AWD and a V6 with a 5 or 6-speed MTX and I would consider trading my Mustang in for one.

    In case anyone has been living in a black hole...
    image
    image
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    The front-end looks like an Accord with a Mazda emblem, the back looks like an LS460. It's clearly a step up in the styline dept IMO.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    kd-

    You really think the front end looks like an Accord? I don't see it. I do see a little Infiniti G in the front. Overall, still looks like a Mazda to me. The rear does scream Lexus a bit. I will agree there.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    Word is the V6 will NOT offer a manual - at least not in the regular version. Have not heard if they plan to offer a speed version yet.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    There will be no mtx in the V6, for 2009 anyway. I have a funny feeling it will have one in 2010.

    As for a Mazdaspeed version, don't count on it. I read from a press release from Mazda's main web site in Japan, and there are no plans for another Mazdaspeed6. With the 09 Mazda6 having the most powerful V6 in its class (270hp+ according to Mazda announced at the dealer meetings), a Mazdaspeed version will have to have well over 300hp to really make people buy one over a V6.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    Word is the V6 will NOT offer a manual - at least not in the regular version.

    Yeah, I think I mentioned that before. Then someone pointed out that the Mazda press release did not state that the MTX would not be an option either. It really didn't even say that the manu-shift ATX was the ONLY tranny for the V6. Just that it would be paired with the V6.

    If I were a betting man I'd say there is no MTX for 2009 with the V6 base on the press release and what others say. But I'm holding out hope. If they don't offer it then I'll just keep my Mustang and still be extremely happy with it.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    still the same old rough and ready Ford DT though whether it be 3.0 or 3.5 or a 'Lincoln' 3.7. If Mazda builds the 3.7 in Japan it may bespeak of better assembly quality but not any real design change in the engine itself - something it still needs BADLY. I'm not sure that even Ford knows what it is going to do about that engine at this point. They simply don't have the freedom (or wherewithall) to put the Duratechs out of its misery.
    You can go all the way back to later 80s and the Probes/MX6s - the V6s were all Ford 'Vulcan' engines while the (preferred) 4 bangers were Mazda. Not too many folks know that the Probe was originally intended to replace the Mustang or that the MX6 was a simple rebadge of the Probe which then in turn begat the 626 and the 6 - and the (unfortunately) close relationship that has existed there ever since.Those that believe that anything with more than 4 cylinders (or rotors) are 'Mazda' engines are deluding themselves IMO. This was true 20 years ago and it is still true today
    Kind of ironic that Ford should take a good 6 platform then and 'stretch' it into a Fusion. Ford may indeed have 'saved' a financially struggling Mazda many years ago but now it appears the roles should be reversed.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,727
    I also see zero reemblence to the Accord. The new 6 is much sleeker, especially in front. The rear does bear a faint resemblence to a Lexus, but no more so than most Lexii look like a Sonata in the rear. Overall a very nice update to the 6, IMO.

    And for those who like the current 6... a local dealer is offering $5000 off MSRP on any 6. And this is April. Wait 'til it's closeout time on the 2008 Mazda6, there'll be really big deals to be had!
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    The Sonata looks nothing like the LS 460 in the rear. Different strokes for different folks.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    You can go all the way back to later 80s and the Probes/MX6s - the V6s were all Ford 'Vulcan' engines while the (preferred) 4 bangers were Mazda. Not too many folks know that the Probe was originally intended to replace the Mustang or that the MX6 was a simple rebadge of the Probe which then in turn begat the 626 and the 6 - and the (unfortunately) close relationship that has existed there ever since

    The 91 & 92 Probe V6 used the Vulcan, the 93+ used a Mazda designed and sourced engine. The more powerful 2.2 liter turbo motor was a Mazda sourced engine as was the base n/a 4.This has been discussed before, along with Toyota still using the 22RE at this time. The Mazda 626 was introduced in 1979 so I don't see that as been influenced by the Probe which came out in 1989.
    Again, the 93+ (the GF) was originally set up to be a sedan with a coupe/hatch derivative. This time, both engines were sourced from Mazda (2.3l I4/2.5l V6,IIRC) while the rebadged Tribute got the 3L duratec that Captain so enjoys.

    Those that believe that anything with more than 4 cylinders (or rotors) are 'Mazda' engines are deluding themselves IMO.

    Thankfully, we know what they say about opinions :P
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    The front-end looks like an Accord with a Mazda emblem, the back looks like an LS460. It's clearly a step up in the styling dept IMO.

    I don't see Accord, I see IS250 or whatever the little RWD Lexus is called right now.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    I think the rear looks like the Lexus 250. The front sort of looks like a TSX (hood and grill), but the arch on the front fenders is just too much, and doesn't seem to match the rest of the car.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,722
    i couldn't reply to 'cap' because 'reply' was covered up by a cadillac ad.
    certainly a lot fuzzy recollections, there.
    i'm pretty sure the 3.5 and up DT are a different architecture than the 3.0 DT.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    the rebadged Tribute got the 3L duratec that Captain so enjoys.

    The 2003-2006 Mazda6 s also had the Ford Duratec30(200hp), with the addition of Mazda's VV-T (220hp).

    capitan-

    The new Duratec35 and 37 are not just bored/stroked versions of the Duratec30. The 35 and 37 are adaptable to direct injection and are equipped with VV-T. Also, fuel economy has been drastically improved. Preliminary figures have Mazda's 3.7L version getting 27mpg's and 270hp. The Duratec30 in the current Mazda6 is rated at 215hp and only gets 25mpg's.

    Duratec is just Ford's name for their DOHC engines. Their current 4 cyl "Duratec" named engines are Mazda designed DOHC engines.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,727
    No resemblence in the rear? Moreso I think than the 2009 Mazda6 to the Accord.

    image
    image
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    No, Other than both have trunks, I do not see a resemblence.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,727
    There's also the fact that Lexus put the white lenses on top, and Hyundai put them on the bottom.

    How about this? The resemblence would be closer with the 2009 Sonata, as it has a mostly red lens.

    image

    image
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I'm trying, but all I see are some tail lights, trunk and exhausts. If anything Sonota has copied Lexus on the designs.
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