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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    What I'm noticing now is that Toyota cars seem to be getting noticibly cheaper looking, and Toyota seems to be doing a less than stellar job of restyling their bread and butter.

    I agree with you. Maybe that is why I don't have a Camry in my garage. However, there are a lot of buyers who for their own reasons look deeper than the sheet metal and decide the car is the one for them.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    So 20 years of reliability means nothing more than 0 years of reliability? I think as long as CR puts the word "PREDICTED" in front of reliability, the company who has consistantly produced reliable cars can get that assumption. Again, as long as they use the word "PREDICTED".

    The problem is, the lemmings out there don't catch the word "predicted". All they catch is "Consumer Reports" and "recommended". And of course, the ad agencies will emphasize this "fact" to no avail, while the fine print gets ignored.

    Sorry, but I'll take the words of JD Power and TrueDelta over CR terms of vehicle reliability.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    The people who have not had a problem, imo, won't care. They will get another Camry or Accord.

    Maybe. But reports like this may convince others to look around besides the Camry and Accord, and they may find something else they like, with the lower price and better warranty being the icing on the cake.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "But reports like this may convince others to look around besides the Camry and Accord, and they may find something else they like, with the lower price and better warranty being the icing on the cake."

    I don't think so, and most people don't give a hoot about JD Powers either. (As an aside ask if people alter their buying decisions based on CR or JD Powers, I have found the answer to be no in general) But this is a point we can argue until to the cows come home. I can see why people buy the Camry. For $21K asnd probably less, I can get a basic no frills, no headache Camry, why wouldn't I want it? While *you* may not want it, I would pick this over the competition including the Accord. At the higher end though, I would pick the Accord.

    In my mind, what they offer at this price point is the reason there are so many on the road.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    As an aside ask if people alter their buying decisions based on CR or JD Powers, I have found the answer to be no in general

    Instead of phrasing it the way you do, try asking if their buying decision was influenced by (their perception of) the vehicle's reliability.

    For example ask...do you think your Camry will be reliable? (assuming answer is yes) Did this have any influence on your decision to buy it?
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "For example ask...do you think your Camry will be reliable? (assuming answer is yes) Did this have any influence on your decision to buy it?"

    This has been my point for years. It's not about the statistics, it's about "my" vehicle. Do I think "my" vehicle will be reliable? My answer always is: "I hope so."

    There actually isn't any modern vehicle I'm overly concerned about. Years ago it was a different story.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I agree. I rarely see a V6 Camry on the streets. Also, those that have been buying Camry's for years are not going to stop because CR said their quality has slipped, especially if they have yet to have an issue with them.

    The only real affect in sales would be felt by potential new Camry buyers looking at the V6.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,665
    What about the people that were affected by the recent problems? They might be more inclined to stick with Toyota if their vehicle was still recommended by CR.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,681
    For $21K asnd probably less, I can get a basic no frills, no headache Camry, why wouldn't I want it?

    Well, here's a few reasons why I would pass. As you said, it's basic and no frills, compared to a loaded competitor. At this price, the Camry will be a basic LE with plastic wheel covers, I4 engine, perhaps no VSC or traction control, basic stereo system, cloth interior, probably a manual driver's seat. OTOH, at the same price one could get a competitor with V6, or an I4 with 17" alloys, ESC with traction, uplevel sound system, leather interior, power driver's seat, and other niceties such as a longer warranty. Plus a better handling car, and (subjective) a better looking car with a higher-quality interior.

    As for no headaches... other competitors are reliable also--Accord, Fusion, Milan, Mazda6i, Sonata etc. "No headaches" is not worth much when it's not a differentiator.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Well, here's a few reasons why I would pass. As you said, it's basic and no frills, compared to a loaded competitor"

    I understand you are pickier than the average Joe and you might pass. But to many customers this car fits the bill. Producing mass market appliances is one of Toyotas strengths.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,681
    Yes, I agree Toyota is a master appliance maker. But tell me... if the average buyer could buy a basic but reliable white refrigerator, or a reliable stainless steel fridge with icemaker, in-door water and ice, spillproof glass shelves, meat and veggie containers with separate climate controls, and a few other doo-dads including a longer warranty, for the same price--which would they tend to buy? I bought (literally) the stainless steel model. :)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I bought (literally) the stainless steel model.

    You bought a DeLorean? ;)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,681
    No, the refrigerator. I said "literally"--I meant it.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Both of my Accords do something similar when coasting down a hill. If I'm coasting at 50MPH in my 1996, the RPMs stay at 2,000RPM or so, but if I barely touch the gas a moment, the revs drop to about 1,500 or so and stay there even after I let off the gas, making it feel like it's freewheeling. I have a video of that I intend to put on youtube to show you if you want to know what I mean. Any ideas what causes this?

    You can see what I mean by the video link below. It happens after about 00:25.
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=uUJwOYR_lqY
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    There actually isn't any modern vehicle I'm overly concerned about. Years ago it was a different story.

    We had some significant concerns, in this regard, about the jaguar X-type, when my wife was considering one in 2005. Aside from that, similarly to you, we hoped and expected that whatever we bought then would be reasonably "reliable" and so far the VW Jetta she ended up choosing has been. Now, our standard is not perfection, there have been a couple things that needed fixing under warranty.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,681
    Your bump on the throttle at that speed may be enough to kick in the torque converter lock-up.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The thing is, on the interstate at 60, with it locked up, it runs 2350RPMs. 1500 is a LOT lower at 50MPH. At 50, it is already locked up at about 1950RPM I think.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    If I was buying a car I would go with what my intuition says to me. Which means I might go for less warranty in exchange for a perception of better ownership experience.

    the difference between a refrigerator and car is about $19,200. enough to give me pause.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,681
    OK. I tend to buy based more on logic, research, financials and other boring stuff like that vs. intuition. To each his own.

    If you are buying a Camry, the difference to a refrigerator is $19,200. If it's something like a Fusion, Mazda6i, Optima, or Sonata, it's more like $14,000-15,000 :)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I'm willing to spend the extra money to get a car I'm comfortable with in the long haul. Check my carspace pictures.
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