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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Are you sure you won't complain if the class moves on to 12-13 lb/HP, and that it won't lose the zoom-zoom factor, again? Interesting thing about this is that the Miata symbolizes zoom-zoom better than any other Mazda. It lead the slogan.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Or the 335 which is 10 lbs per hp, which comes online at 1400 rpm. Non-competitive :surprise

    Actually, 335i has 45 lb to carry for each HP at 1400 rpm. :shades:
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    We're losing sight of the topic.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    I think the 2008 Accord is much improved over how it absorbs small bumps. As was noted by someone else, with the previous generation Accord, you really could feel every little bump. But those are smoothed out in the 2008 model. Maybe not as isolated as, say, a Buick or Sonata, but to the extent where it's no longer an issue for me. The new Accord also corners flat around curves, no problem there. Seemed to track straight also. The only problem I found with the chassis, and this was with the 16" tires, was some side-stepping when going around a sharp curve over small bumps (e.g. a cloverleaf). This isn't a major problem, especially for a family sedan, but it just shows the Accord is a fine family sedan but not a sport sedan.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    haha, I think past posts have shown some people to have blinders and cherry-pick certain parts of other's posts. Apparently reacting to a complete idea is too difficult so creating a "strawman" argument is all that they have left...

    The idea that HP is all there is to Zoom-Zoom just misses the point. I've had bicycles that had more zoom-zoom than many of these midsize cars! For people who like to drive but want enough room for business, family or friends, the Mazda6 is a great option that is priced thousands less than competitors in this class.
  • I think the 2008 Accord is much improved over how it absorbs small bumps. As was noted by someone else, with the previous generation Accord, you really could feel every little bump. But those are smoothed out in the 2008 model.

    I would definitely expect that of a car with the size and girth of the '08.

    The only problem I found with the chassis, and this was with the 16" tires, was some side-stepping when going around a sharp curve over small bumps (e.g. a cloverleaf). This isn't a major problem, especially for a family sedan, but it just shows the Accord is a fine family sedan but not a sport sedan.

    It should be fine at meeting the needs of most people hauling children and going to the grocery store.
  • I've had bicycles that had more zoom-zoom than many of these midsize cars!

    My Cannondale is definitely more zoom-zoomy than the Accord :P
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Do we really need flat cornering, and ability to do 0-60 in 7.0 or less to haul children and grocery shopping? "Family" sedans have come a long way indeed!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    You haven't been at the school drop-off or the grocery store parking lot lately, have you? ;)
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    Heh. Well, they ALL go my speed, thankyouverymuch...

    Of course, I have an old 4Runner that looks like and probably COULD drive over their yuppie toys.(lifted a bit, big knobby tires, bars, sliders, etc)
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    In looking for a small/midsize wagon, did you look at the Legacy at all?

    I didn't really give Subaru a fair shake, or fair consideration, and I probably should have. I didn't like the styling of any of their vehicles at the time (until maybe this year with some redesigns), and that had a lot to do with it. The other main reason I avoided Subaru was that in back in the 80's my parents got a Subaru wagon, and I guess Subaru tended to under power their cars back then. It was probably one of the most underpowered vehicles I've ever been in. So I definitely had some outdated bias and perception against Subaru.

    However, on the plus side, I did notice Subaru was always coming in at #3 reliability wise for the Magnificent Japanese 3. Nissan, Mitsubishi, Izuzu, Suzuki, and Mazda have always been Japanese pretenders. Also, I tend to value high-quality interiors, which is probably why I've gone the Honda-Audi route.

    One of my most demanding criteria is that any car I buy must have an exceptional HP & Torgue to miles per gallon ratio. I want great performance w/o sacrificing fuel economy, and that's probably my #1 criteria. I do have to like the style and looks, both inside and out, so that weighs heavily too.

    And finally, reliability and dependability have come to be my first and foremost criteria due to the ownership experience Chrysler provided to me with my first vehicle being a Dodge. Before my first Dodge, I thought reliability meant little, and as such, dependability was low on my totem pole of consideration.

    Well, after my domestic experience, I felt the Camry, Civic, Corolla, & Accord models were the furthest away, most different, and totally opposite and polar to the Dodge Experience. So I had to get one no matter how much I hated the styling. Thank god I loved the 2003 Honda Accord redesign and it came JUST IN TIME for my purchase in November of 2002! I had no taste for the looks of the 2002 Accord's from Honda.

    When purchasing the A3 over the RAV4, I also had test driven with strong cosideration the V50 from Volvo, the 9-3 SportCombi from Saab, Mazda 3 5-door (another tough competitor).

    Without taking test-drives, I still took serious looks at the Acura TSX, and 325/330 from BMW.

    The V50 and 9-3 fell apart upon inspection with CR reliability scores and rankings, and while the V50's interior was nice and acceptable (though not my cup of tea), the Saab had a "poor" interior to put it mildly. Also, turbo lag was much more noticeable in those 2, whereas in the A3 I wouldn't have known it was a turbo without "knowing" it beforehand.

    The Mazda 3 is basically 75% the car the A3 is, for 70% the cost! So I'd concede that technically Mazda provides ever so slightly better value (when the warranties used to be equivalent). I chose to go with the real deal 100% car vs. saving money.

    The TSX was VERY NICE inside and out, but I just didn't care for the small sedan design with little cargo capability. Also, I felt the specs on the drivetrain screamed for the 3.0 V6 from Honda instead of the fast 4 banger. Acura didn't offer a test drive right off the bat.

    The BMW dealership seemed snotty and snobish, and didn't seem all that excited at letting me test drive a 3 series vehicle, so I didn't... (though they said I should "come back to test drive theirs last; after driving all the others.") Well, I never went back, and they were a bit too overpriced for my taste, and the 328 and super fast 335 do seem like a significant improvements since then, over the slow poke 325 and pricy 330. Also, I don't like to be told to "come back" to do a test drive. If the cars are really that good; have me drive it right then and there.

    After all, it's the drive/acceleration, handling, gas mileage, & build quality that sold the Audi A3.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    What do I know. I live in a city my colleagues call "Family Mound", and am surrounded by eleven grocery stores within 2 miles, and two schools (and a large day care center) are within quarter mile. It is hard to spot a family sedan among the mammoth-mobiles.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    I'd seriously consider buying a lower priced MazdaSpeed6 with an AUDI DSG transmission so I can live with Southern CA traffic. I'd like to see the interior spruced up too.

    That would make one helluva car. :P
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    What are you talking about?? The Mazda6 is up for a redesign, and in 2003 it was just as competitive as the rest of the mid sized sedans. The Mazda3 is STILL a top performer in the compact market. The MX-5 is revered at the #1 roadster of all time. The CX-7 is quicker/ drives better then a Murano/CR-V and others.

    Most of what you said in your post is true, but what is misleading in the above statements is the following:

    1) In 2003 there was (since fall of 2002) a 240 HP Accord available, which was not even in the same ballpark as Mazda's offering for midsize cars.

    2) The CX-7 while quick, cannot match or compete with the ferocity of the RAV4's pure speed down a drag strip.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    I agree that the fun in zoom zoom from great handling is far greater than the zoom zoom fun of super fast straight line acceleration.

    However, a car should not be "slow" in either department (speaking to Ford's 3.0 here).
  • Do we really need flat cornering, and ability to do 0-60 in 7.0 or less to haul children and grocery shopping? "Family" sedans have come a long way indeed!

    No, we need something that can safely transport a typical load (how ever that is defined by each individual) while incurring the minimum cost to the operator and to the environment.

    We want something that we find a pleasurable and enjoyable place to spend 2-4hrs/day. That is defined differently for different people. Some people like to feel isolated from the outside like their car is a cocoon. Others like to feel connected with the outside world, like their car is an extension of themselves.
  • 1) In 2003 there was (since fall of 2002) a 240 HP Accord available, which was not even in the same ballpark as Mazda's offering for midsize cars.

    The Mazda has a 10% horsepower deficit to the Honda. I would hardly consider that not in the same ballpark.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    So, what was the point?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Powerwise they were. Performance, refinement and fuel economy, however, weren't.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    yes, I would suggest you rent a V6 powered Honda from 2003-07 models and take it around redlining it everywhere you go (traffic allowing) of course :P

    I think you'd have some serious fun that isn't in the same ballpark you'd have with Ford Duratech 3.0 engined mid-size cars.
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