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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    If it was a rental car in 2002 (meaning it may have been older than MY 2002), it's probably no longer under warranty. As if that matters at all.
  • The superior handling characteristics of our 2007 SEL AWD Ford Fusion

    Superior to what? There are cars in this class I'd call preferable to the others but none of them start with the letter F. Even then I wouldn't use the term superior in describing their attributes.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    There are cars in this class I'd call preferable to the others but none of them start with the letter F. Even then I wouldn't use the term superior in describing their attributes.

    We all have our own opinions, however, the Ford Fusion does have far better handling to that of Camry, 2003-2007 Accord ann 2002-2007 Altima. I am not sure about the new Accord or Altima. Plus, the Fusion is offered in AWD. There have been numerous comparo's done to prove this. C&D's sticks out in my memory.

    While you may not like Ford as a whole, the Fusion is a huge step in the right direction. SO I ask, "Have you driven a Ford lately??" ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    SO I ask, "Have you driven a Ford lately??"

    If you haven't looked at Ford lately, look again!
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    May be not THAT car, but unless rental cars are purposely built to different specs, any other 2002-2003 isn’t going to be any different. And I'm guessing quite a few of them are still on the road as they are new enough to still have half of the original warranty (that Hyundai advertises in big letters). If it were a car from the late 90s, much less from early 90s, then I won't be bringing it up.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    What is the point of comparing a car from 2002, which was designed in the mid-'90s, to today's standards? If you want to go down that route, we could for example compare, say, a 2002 Accord to a 2008 Altima, or even a Sonata. But to what purpose?

    Funny though how you bring up the Hyundai powertrain warranty now. I didn't think you thought much of it.
  • "Have you driven a Ford lately??"

    Actually yes. And not just "driven" one - I bought one. A F150 for my business. On labor day weekend.

    Its a fine truck, but I wouldn't call it superior to the competition, as the guy with the Fusion says of his vs. whatever he's comparing it to.

    I test drove the Fusion - twice - in 4 cyl and 6 cyl form, and found it less desireable than the 06 Accord or Altima I also tested.

    I didn't weave it thru a slalom but after driving for 30+ years, I think I have a good feel for "superior" handling in a vehicle.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    If I couldn't talk about a car from 2002-2003, talking about my 1998 Accord makes it worse, right? Interestingly enough, that Accord was about as old in 2002-2003 as the 2002-2003 would be today, and served as a fine benchmark (and still does today). In fact, it feels quite young. :D

    PS. The original intent was to illustrate the point of handling performance. When something feels faster than it is, then there is a problem.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    the Ford Fusion does have far better handling to that of Camry, 2003-2007 Accord ann 2002-2007 Altima.

    Uh...

    I am currently driving a Fusion SE rental car right now for 2 weeks since an 80-year-old decided I have to sideline my car for a while. Anyway, the fusion's handling is nothing to write home about. It is marginally better than my mom's 1999 Camry but worse than the 2007 Camry SE I had on my last trip and much worse than my old 1997 Honda Accord.

    I am not trying to knock on the Fusion, which is a quantum leap compare to the old Taurus. However, comparing to the 10-year-old Honda Accord, asides for a few modern gadgets that it has the '97 Accord is a much better car IMO.

    I would also pick the Camry SE over the Fusion. For all those people knocking on how bad the Camry handles, go try the SE version and it'll surprise you dearly.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    the fusion's handling is nothing to write home about. It is marginally better than my mom's 1999 Camry but worse than the 2007 Camry SE I had on my last trip and much worse than my old 1997 Honda Accord.


    According to many authors, they feel the Fusion SEL AWD handles better. Like I said, C&D's artice trally sticks out in my mind.

    I have driven a Fusion, and it does handle nicely. Last time I drove a Camry, MY 2002-2006, it felt like a grandma mobile. Very comfortable, but, not meant to hit the corners. I used to own a 1991 Accord, and it handled nicely as well, but, it was smaller then the current Civic! My father owns a 2004 Accord coupe, and it has nice power, but, I never really tried to hit any corners with it. The 2006 Accord LX sedan I have on my lot is really nothing to write home about. Very basic. Not great in the corners.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    What if I don't need AWD since where I live rarely (if not never) snows. Why do I need to get AWD for better handling since other FWD sedans in the same class offer better handling? Why can't Ford puts better handling into the FWD Fusion if Honda can do it 10 years ago?

    Too many unanswered questions.

    Fusion is a decent effort from Ford but close, no cigar yet.

    Last time I drove a Camry, MY 2002-2006, it felt like a grandma mobile.

    Didn't you read my post before replying? I did say that the Fusion handles better than my mom's old Camry but the one I said that's better is the 2007 Camry SE.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Handling is nice, but not most important. The suspension a car has, can make a big difference to me, in other ways. Some cars are not very stable at speed. They handle bumps very well, but will feel floaty or jittery, even when the road is smooth. In some cars, if you want to take a turn quickly, the front of the car feels like it dives, and the car leans a lot. I do appreciate a smooth ride, but not at the expense of everything else. I also can appreciate good handling, but not if the ride is harsh, and everything in the car vibrates and rattles. It's a fine line, and my Accord rides it very well.
  • csandstecsandste Posts: 1,866
    As Mickyrom knows, we're both old farts with Optimas. I haven't read all the responses but I'll make a case for the joys of 60 series and handling mediocrity.

    I have the Michelin 50 series tires that came with the appearance group. The dealer was all out of 60 series tires and gave me an excellent deal.

    I think the handling is definitely better but the comfort certainly isn't. I find my 05 Malibu Maxx with 60 series tires to be more comfortable. Plus, replacement costs will be a lot higher on the Optima.

    Then again, I'm not 25 years old and I'm not Car and Driver.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    Although the US will likely only get the 2.5 liter and a new v-6 (3.5 or 3.7 liter...don't know for sure yet), it seems pretty much everything has improved. I'm glad mazda hasn't softened the Mazda6 too much while increasing the quality of the interior, the size of the interior and HP and reducing weight and road noise. Of course I'd still would like to know more about the US version, but this will have to do for now.

    My favorite quote:

    The biggest compliment we can pay the car is that it's totally consistent. Whatever you do with the accelerator or steering won't upset it.

    With taut body control, strong, progressive brakes, minimal tendency to run wide in hard cornering and even the ability to tuck tighter into bends if you ease off the throttle, it's predictable, but enjoyable to drive.

    Japanese style with European dynamics? It works.


    2009 Mazda6 preview
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    I would also pick the Camry SE over the Fusion. For all those people knocking on how bad the Camry handles, go try the SE version and it'll surprise you dearly.

    I have. A 2007, to be exact. Handling is good, and leagues better than the regular Camry.

    Better than the Fusion? Not really IMO. Both the Milan and Fusion have very good handling, and the SE feels about the same, with a slightly softer ride.

    Most impressive in terms of handling was the Altima and the Aura. The Altima has always handled well, but the '07-up is more refined. The Aura was a BIG surprise, taking corners with great confidence and a smooth ride.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Not to mention one has to pay an extra $1200, over the Camry LE price, to get the SE. Many other cars come with good handling standard on all trim levels.
  • PS. The original intent was to illustrate the point of handling performance. When something feels faster than it is, then there is a problem.

    Its more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow, given that it would be basically the same speed.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Didn't you read my post before replying? I did say that the Fusion handles better than my mom's old Camry but the one I said that's better is the 2007 Camry SE.

    Yeeeees. I was adding my own .02 Am I allowed to do that?
  • Some cars are not very stable at speed. They handle bumps very well, but will feel floaty or jittery, even when the road is smooth. In some cars, if you want to take a turn quickly, the front of the car feels like it dives, and the car leans a lot.

    This was one of the reasons I went with the EX vs the VP, as the VP lacks the rear sway bar, which adds stability in crosswinds. It also has a slightly larger footprint as each tire is 10mm wider (of course the size and style of tire kind of neuters the car, but thats neither here nor there). My Accord has gone back once to have the suspension checked because I couldn't believe the amount of body roll, I thought a sway bar end link had been damaged or not connected or something.
    In hindsight, I could've gotten the VP and added a suspension kit and aftermarket tires and wheels and still come out ahead, but bygones.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    there is definitely a relationship between a 'tightened' 'go-kart' type suspension and the perception by the autobuyer that this in itself is indicative of 'good' handling, which may or may not be true. One reason the Mazda6 doesn't sell well is that it is simply too tight for the average US autobuyer, the ride/handling compromise that Honda has generally done a good job finding, and that Toyota has usually been on the 'soft' side of. The Camry easily outsells the other cars in this group because this is what American drivers have shown to prefer - with their pocketbooks. Nissan has done the best job attacking the other end of the market as also evidenced by sales numbers, ever since inventing the term '4 door sports sedan'. So diss the 'soft' characteristics of a Camry LE or XLE if you will - Toyota seems to know something about buyers of cars in this class that we don't. A soft boulevard ride sells better (at least in this country) than perceived (or even real) handling qualities. It simply matters more to the guys who count, the autobuyers.
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