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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    Their warranty matches everyone in the class except Sonata. Every mfr denies warranty claims that the owner believes should be covered. I will admit that Ford has some bad dealers out there that aren't as helpful as they should be but I don't think they are any worse than any other mfr regarding warranty coverage.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Except Camry and Accord are no longer the benchmark in terms of F/E.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    And Galant. And Optima. :)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    Correct - I was only referring to the mainstream entries.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Jeez, when I stated an Accord got 38mpg average on a long road trip, I'm not quite sure it was believed. Which to me is why Accord rules.
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 797
    It's quite possible that the 2010 Fusion/Milan with the new 2.5L 4-cylinder will match or even slightly beat the Accord and Camry 4-cylinder automatic models.

    Accord and Camry models with the 4-cylinder/5-speed automatic powertrain have EPA mileage ratings of 21mpg city and 31mpg highway.

    The 2.5L in '09 Mazda6 has EPA fuel economy ratings of 21 city (same as Camcord) and 30 highway (only one mpg behind Camcord).

    The current Fusion 4-cylinder models weight about 200 pounds less than the new Mazda6, so that could have an impact. The Mazda's automatic transmission is most likely geared to strike a certain balance of performance and economy...with an emphasis on performance in keeping with Mazda's "Zoom-Zoom" image. If that's the case, Ford could gear it toward better fuel economy. Even better, they could follow Chevrolet's lead with the Malibu LTZ and match a 4-cylinder with a 6-speed automatic transmission to achieve significantly higher fuel economy!

    I'm anxious to see how it turns out when the 2010 models hit the road early next year. If the 2.5L Fusion has EPA ratings that do exceed the Accord and Camry- WHERE DO I PICK UP MY ORDER FORM??? =)
  • moocow1moocow1 Posts: 230
    Of course plans don't mean reality. I expect at least a few of these plans to be delayed, too much on the plate at once. However if they pull off having high fuel economy cars with good engines, 6 speed autos, good european driving dynamics. I gotta say I will be MAJORLY impressed. Long long ago, I once considered a focus. This could finally push me to at least look again at something.

    Of course regarding the mid-size cars, the range of fuel economy is damn small. Generally we're looking at 20-22 city and 30-32 highway, if ford gets 23/33, I'm not gonna be particularly impressed with a 1mpg advantage over sonata(The best fuel economy right now for non-hybrid! woohoo!) If they pull off like 25/35, that would be a major midsize advantage over any other.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    These aren't "plans" - the cars hit the factory floor in just over 4 months. And all Fulans get 6 speed transmissions - manual, automatic, I4, V6. That's one advantage they'll have over the others.

    Ford never had direction to achieve best in class fuel economy - it was never as important as emissions and other priorities. Obviously that's changed. Here is a quote from Ford product chief Kuzack:

    It's all part of a mandate by Ford product chief Derrick Kuzak: When the company significantly changes a vehicle and updates its powertrain, fuel economy must be best in class.

    "When we have new powertrains in a new vehicle, why would we have an expectation of anything less than being equal to or better than anything the competition is offering?"
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    In my head, a nameplate's sales are a nameplate's sales (Corolla, Matrix, Accord). That Toyota calls them different things is their choice. Obviously not everyone thinks like I do. :)

    I didn't intend to imply that it was wrong.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    22/33 for the 2009 Malibu is on its way (See It Here) I'm not sure what changed from the 2008 to the 2009 model to get the extra 1 MPG. The 6-speed 2.4L put the 2008 Malibu at 22/32. Where'd the extra mileage come from for 2009?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    What do you consider "mainstream"? The Optima, for example, outsold the Aura, Mazda6, Milan, and Passat last month--most of those by a large margin. Even the Galant is only 3,000 units behind the Passat YTD. Is mainstream only Accord, Camry, Altima, Fusion, Malibu, and Sonata?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Well, if it's any consolation, I believed you. :)

    I was getting 37+ mpg on that Milan I4 AT on the highway on my trip, so I can certainly see an Accord getting 38 mpg on the highway under certain conditions.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    Is mainstream only Accord, Camry, Altima, Fusion, Malibu, and Sonata?

    To me - yes. Not trying to imply anything except the frame of reference for my statements.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I was getting 37+ mpg on that Milan I4 AT on the highway on my trip, so I can certainly see an Accord getting 38 mpg on the highway under certain conditions.

    The "certain conditions" are what are so important. You can't get such mileage at 80 MPH with 4 people and the A/C cranked, running with winter blend 10% Ethanol.

    You CAN however at 70mph, alone, A/C, with the cruise set.

    I'm convinced that 90% of people could improve their economy by an easy 10% if they'd do nothing but drive when in the car; paying attention to lights and how fast they NEEDED to accelerate, not how fast they have to accelerate to be at the front of the pack on the six lane highway.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    And for city driving - coasting whenever possible. You'd be surprised how much you can coast if you start paying attention.

    But let's not go overboard and start hyper-miling - pushing the car, taking corners too fast, coasting well below the speed limit and flow of traffic.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I can honestly say my numbers are always achieved by going AT LEAST the limit.

    Coasting, as you said, is a HUGE factor. For example, if I'm on the 5-lane (2 each way with a turn-lane) road near my home that has a 45 mph limit, and I see the light turn red well in advance. I'm not against coasting down to 30 mph before I eventually have to apply the brake as I approach the intersection. If I have people riding my tail , they have another lane to go around (I'm a right-lane renegade), as there is no point in ACCELERATING or driving 45-50mph up until it is time to brake.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Perhaps gearing?

    What's more puzzling is the V6:

    The 3.6 with the 6 speed is far inferior in terms of MPG than the 3.5 with a 4 speed :confuse:
  • sandman46sandman46 Posts: 1,798
    What kind of cars does Hertz rent in their mid sized Mazda 6 size? Getting this size from them in 2 weeks and was hoping they'd consider the Sonata in the same class. Since I'll have the car for a week, really want to try out the '09 Sonata and put it through it's paces. Wouldn't mind a Ford Fusion either. Hopefully I'll have a choice when i go to pick it up. I need a back friendly car and have been upgraded with Alamo and Avis in the past for free. Just wondering what Hertz has in their stables on a regular basis.

    The Sandman :)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Cars may vary by location, but I've seen Camrys, Mazda6s, Fusions, Milans, Accords (!), Optimas, and Sonatas at Hertz. I have seen some 2009 Sonatas. Best thing to do is call the Hertz site you'll be renting from and confirm what they have in their fleet, and ask for a specific model.
  • moocow1moocow1 Posts: 230
    I certainly don't agree with those being the only mainstream. Mainstream sedans should include all sedans that are in the same mid-size budget range to compare against. It's not like these cars have any major differences between something like an optima vs passat vs altima. They're all similar types of vehicles, the details make all the difference.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    i wouldn't focus too much on the epa numbers. real world can be very different.
    odometers are not always accurate either(cough*honda*cough). ;)
  • oldcemoldcem Posts: 309
    I'm driving an 08 Saturn Aura 3.5 for my business travels. I typically cruise at 70 - 75 on the interstates and the car has always averaged slightly better MPG that its EPA rating of 30 highway. At interstate speeds this thing only turns 2000 RPM and has enough suds that it doesn't downshift on hills much.

    Regards:
    Oldengineer
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    If you can beat the epa estimates with one car, chances are you can beat them with another. It mostly depends on driving habits. For each driver who does better than the estimates, there is another who would not, driving the same car. "Real World" is only real, if it's YOUR world. I don't do things that I know will waste gas, but it's not the main objective while I'm driving. I check my mileage once in a while, just to make sure it's not dropping. I think checking the mileage for every tank is unnecessary.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    I certainly don't agree with those being the only mainstream.

    Who said you had to? Those are what I consider to be mainstream midsize sedans and I was only using them in the context of what I used for comparison. I was not suggesting that was anyone else's definition.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    On strengths of the Accord and Civic, according to news summaries I've seen. So much for the naysaying Honda is going down the tubes.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    odometers are not always accurate either(cough*honda*cough).

    Interesting...I never even thought of that as a possible source of error.

    OTOH, I do agree with elroy that "Real World" is only real, if it's YOUR world :) .

    One person might regularly drive 80 on the freeway and another only 55, they will report drastically different mpg.

    "City" driving varys so much depeding not only on the driver, but on how city-ish your city is. NYC is a city and so is Des Moines...I'm guessing average mpg in those two real world cities would be quite different even for the same driver.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    My "city" mileage on my daily 11 mile commute can vary from 18 to 24 depending on temperature, traffic and traffic light timing.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,048
    One person might regularly drive 80 on the freeway and another only 55, they will report drastically different mpg.

    I agree when you are comparing only two people. I think that it is kind of like the old 80/20 rule. 20% will drive at the extremes(55/80) the other 80% will drive around 5 over the limit. As you look through the mpg forums it seems like most people are driving around 65-75. That's the type of driving I do on the interstate and I consider myself to be pretty much in the norm and with the flow of traffic.
  • about to pick up an 08 2.5 S auto CVT ( base/cloth) with no other packages

    for 18736 incl everything, except nj tax and plates/registration ( which ill get on my own)

    good deal or not? please advice
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I don't disagree and certainly when comparing uncongested interstate driving there are far fewer variables than any other types of driving.
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