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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Try going to edmunds TMV(true market value) and see what it advises. Why do you want to pick up your own plates, the dealer will charge you for it any way? Which dealer are you using?
  • TMV is giving me a higher price than im going to pay, which is good, but i trust real experiences better than estimating tools. that price is without their plate service , and supposedly that cost was deducted from my total to come up with the #, so if i want plates/reg , its an extra few hundred. ill have a 30 day temp plates, and at leasure walk into DMV ( 4 mles from me) and get it all taken care of.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    let the dealer do the registration for you. Dealers are not allowed to mark up registration fees.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Dealers are not allowed to mark up registration fees

    Maybe not, but they can charge anything they like to provide the service of obtaining plates for you, etc.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Maybe not, but they can charge anything they like to provide the service of obtaining plates for you

    That depends on the State, I think mine has a limit of $20 that can be charged as a service fee for plates and registration.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    The fee is called a doc fee. Most dealers have one. In CT, if you do your reg on your own, the doc fee is reduced $25. For $25 I would rather not have the head ache that is also known as the DMV.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,767
    The infamous "documentation fee" or "doc fee" is just added profit and has nothing to do with the actual registration of the vehicle. If you buy a Ford on A/Z/X/D plan then you usually don't have to pay any doc fee, although Ford has recently allowed up to $75.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,051
    In Illinois, by law, the max doc fee allowed by the state is $150. Dealers can charge from $0 up to $150 but if they charge it to one customer they have to charge all customers the same amount.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    That's not true. A/Z/X/D/S plans do not make you exempt from dealer documentation fees. As a Ford/Lincoln/Mercury/Mazda dealer, I deal with this every day.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,782
    >up to $150 but if they charge it to one customer they have to charge all customers the same amount

    Can you cite the item in the Illinois code that says it has to be charged the same to all customers? That's a popular statement by salesmen to try to defuse customers' resistance to paying it. See if there really is a law. What they can do is just lower the price of the car and then leave the line item on their preprinted billing. I just ignore such fees to beging with.

    A recent consumer show talked about how real estate people are trying to sneak in extra fees in closings, since some car dealers are getting by with it so much. They add in a few hundred dollars on the final closing statement as "administration" fee, he said -- Clark Howard @
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I know CT law, a dealer must apply for a doc fee and get approval. There is no limit to what a dealer can charge, however, the state can deny your request for a certain amount. The norm here in CT for a doc fee is $250-$500.

    Also, per law as well every customer must be charged the same amount for the doc fee, or monies must be refunded to customers who paid higher if discrepancies are found at time of an audit, unless the dealer got approval for a higher fee amount prior to the fee amount change. This also rings true to those who want a doc fee waived. It is unlawful to do so. The only thing a dealer can do is lower the selling price of the vehicle to compensate.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,767
    Mazda has no restriction on doc fees. Ford allows a maximum of $75 in doc fees unless state or local laws require otherwise. Here is the exact rule:

    # Dealers will be permitted to assess up to $75 in documentary fees on each delivery to an eligible purchaser under the terms of the Plan, unless otherwise provided by state or local laws or regulation. Each dealer is responsible for complying with applicable laws or regulations.
    # Unless otherwise provided by state or local laws or regulation: In states where dealers are not permitted to charge as much as $75 for doc fees, dealers would be capped at the lesser amount as provided by the state. In states that permitted more than $75, dealers would be permitted to charge the Plan customer $75. In states that permitted more than $75 and also required that all customers be charged the same amount, dealers may charge the Plan customer $75 and indicate any additional fees have been paid by Ford Motor Company as part of the AXZD-Plan Program dealer reimbursement on the buyer's order.
    # Doc Fee Charges should be detailed on the AXZD Plan Pricing Agreement located in number 4.
    # Mazda dealerships may charge reasonable and customary document preparation and/or administrative service fees for S-Plan sales. Please review all fees with your Mazda sales consultant and be sure you understand and agree prior to completing a sale.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,782
    >This also rings true to those who want a doc fee waived. It is unlawful to do so.

    This was discussed in another topic. States may vary, but I'd like to see the quote of the legislation. Years ago I had a Levi store manager tell me he had to see drivers license identification for a signed Visa/Mastercard. He even told me it was Michigan law! I asked for a copy and he copied a section of the law that didn't say that at ALL!!! Duh.

    Next visit to the outlet mall we intentionally bought clothes for the kid at the same Levi store (West Branch, MI) and they didn't ask for ID for the signed credit card. I complained to the credit card company.

    Same thing happened long ago using Travelers Checks at a KMart in Atlanta. They wanted to see a drivers license. With the travelers checks at that time if the signatures matched the store was protected.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I guess that is why we have never had an issue with doc fees for F/L/M customers. CT allows what we charge, and we must charge to all no acceptions
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I think we are getting off topic (me included). I do believe there is a thread where this topic can be discussed in full. Host, where can we find it??
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I don't know where it should go, but I sure miss my midsize sedans board!
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    You could all head over to the Document Fees discussion and join the conversation there.

    The keyword search on the side bar is a marvelous thing, truly! :) :P
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    2009 Passat will be offered in 2.0T form only starting in 2009, according to MotorTrend. The Passat CC will get the 3.6L.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,767
    Ford confirmed in an interview that the upcoming 2.5L I4 Fusion will get 34 mpg highway. That is 3 mpg better than Camry or Accord. I assume the new 6 speed transmission (vs. 5 in the Camcords) is responsible for most of it.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Are you sure that is in reference to the non-Hybrid Fusion? If it is not, I don't see how Ford is going to get an extra 4 mpg's out of the Mazda based 2.5L which Mazda only manages 30mpg's highway.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,767
    It's possible - they already said the hybrid would beat the Camry hybrid which is currently at 34 mpg highway. The exact quote was "The new Fusion, with a new 2.5-liter four-cylinder engine, will get more than 34 miles per gallon on the highway, Kuzak said." You'd think he would have said hybrid if that's what he meant, but maybe not.

    Even if it is referring to the hybrid, the non-hybrids will get at least 32. The Mazda version still uses a 5 speed transmission whereas the Fords will use a new 6 speed.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,226
    The Mazda version still uses a 5 speed transmission whereas the Fords will use a new 6 speed.

    Remember that the Mazda 5-speed ATX has a manual mode too. You can safely bet that it will be geared towards performance rather than max fuel econ which would explain some of the difference.
  • milkman1milkman1 Posts: 80
    Here is the new article in question on the Fusion. It's actually out of Automotive News.

    link title
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I didn't get much out of that. Sounds like what every other manufacturer says about upcoming products.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,767
    Have you ever heard Ford proclaim best in class fuel economy? I haven't, because they've never achieved it as far as I can remember. It was never a corporate priority before. And Kuzack wouldn't be announcing something like that if they weren't absolutely certain. The cars are only 4 months away.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Since the Fusion is one of the smallest cars in the class, it shouldn't be too hard to get the best mileage. Was Kuzak saying he wanted fuel economy, at the expense of everything else? Will the transmission shift too soon (like the Malibu), or will they sacrifice performance, for the sake of an MPG or two?
  • auld_dawgauld_dawg Posts: 40
    Since Mazda's redesign, I believe that the Fusion/ Milan has a 200lb or more weight advantage {less being better}.

    Might help this somewhat.........
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    Since Mazda's redesign, I believe that the Fusion/ Milan has a 200lb or more weight advantage {less being better}.

    Actually, I went to test drive the Mazda6 and they told me I had to lose 15 lbs before I could even test drive it. :sick: They might be getting carried away with this weight savings... :D

    I kid, I kid...
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Will the transmission shift too soon (like the Malibu)

    Is that how the Malibu gets 33 mpg hwy for the I4 in the 2009 model? Is the fallout from the new EPA mpg test, which features greater acceleration? The old test only had very light acceleration, so I would guess early shifting could be have been restricted to only those conditions and now they would, perhalps, extend it to other conditions.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,767
    Why are you ignoring the extra gear in the transmission? That plus wind resistance likely has more effect on highway mileage than weight.
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