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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,618
    Based on's review of the Malibu and reviews (and my own drive) of the Accord, I don't think it's out of the question for 1-2 comparos to put the Malibu at the top. But C/D will probably have the Accord at the top (and Camry near the bottom), while MT might tend to put the Malibu at the top--and make it their COTY, since the new Malibu is a significant car and that's what MT's COTY award measures.

    I think 2008 is the year the Camry will lose the sales lead to Accord, unless Toyota dumps a lot of Camrys into fleets.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,682
    >unless Toyota dumps a lot of Camrys into fleets

    Toyo can't do that after so many people have criticized GM for selling cars to fleets all these years, ridiculed GM, in fact.

    This message has been approved.

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,618
    Sure they can. They already sell lots of Camrys to fleets. I think it depends on how badly Toyota wants to hang onto the #1 sales position for cars. They are already undercutting Honda big time on leases, e.g. Camry LE for $184/month vs. $259/month for the Accord LX, with about the same money out of pocket. The new Malibu will take some mid-sized sales away from others too. So if Toyota wants to maintain the Camry's strong sales, it may have to increase fleet sales.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,682
    >already sell lots of Camrys to fleets

    They should be selling them to individuals. That dilutes the value of the brand and the car to sell them to fleets. And they're dumping them in leases. That means in two years those used cars won't be worth anything!

    This message has been approved.

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,618
    Well, so much for the vaunted Camry resale value then! ;)
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Toyota has consistently put about 14% units of Camry in fleet sales over last ten years or so. I'm not sure about how many went to fleet before that. That makes for an additional 60K in sales. So, while a relatively big number when compared to companies that don't do fleet much (Honda has traditionally limited itself to 2% or so), it isn't, when you consider 14% might be on the lower side of the average.

    I think Chrysler is the brand that is suffering from it the most. In fact, I was shocked to learn that 79.4% of Avenger went to fleet (based on mid-year registrations, not over a full year). There seems to be a pretty long list of vehicles with more than a third of their sales going towards fleet. Here are some midsizers that top the list (w/minimum projected annual sales of 40K units)
    Chrysler Sebring 63.50%
    Chevrolet Malibu 58.80%
    Dodge Charger 56.20%
    Chevrolet Impala 53.90%
    Kia Optima 52.80%
    Chrysler 300 44.00%
    Ford Five Hundred 43.10%
    Mazda6 42.70%
    Pontiac G6 36.20%

    Now with these cars, fleet sales really becomes an issue. Most of them have less than half making it to a private owner. When fleet returns happen, these cars can't hold value, and resale suffers. For Camry and Altima (typically 16-18%), it is much less of an issue, even though they sell in higher volumes than most of these.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    Do you happen to have info on the % of Sonata sales that are to fleets?

    I think it was about a year ago that Hyundai said it was reducing fleet sales.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    Based on's review of the Malibu and reviews (and my own drive) of the Accord, I don't think it's out of the question for 1-2 comparos to put the Malibu at the top.

    If the author of the Malibu preview drive is any indication of how the rest of the editors feel then the Accord will take #1 spot at Edmunds.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    The fleet numbers are based on half year registrations (Oct-Mar). For 2007, 27.6% of the total sales of Sonata went towards fleet. A year before that, it was 50.2%.

    In number of units, 15K units of Sonata out of 54K sold went to fleet in first half of 2007. Over the same period a year before that, it was 42.5K units of 84.6K units sold.

    So, Hyundai did reduce fleet sales from 42.5K units to 14.9K units going from 2006 to 2007. The retail sales was about the same, dipping slightly from 42.1K in 2006 to 38.9K in 2007 (same period).
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,618
    Yes, I agree. Unless... they do one of those "what can you get for $XXk" comparos again and it happens to be a Malibu LT I4 with the 6-speed AT vs. the Accord LX. That could get interesting.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I don't see a major price advantage on Malibu actually. It is priced in the same price range as the Accord.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    There's now a lot of good choices in this segment even if you would just limit yourself to the domestic name plates. With only Chrysler being left out of the party in my humble opinion. And even then it's not like you're being punished for getting a Sebring.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,618
    - Malibu LS I4 AT, $19,995 including destination charge.
    - Accord LX I4 AT, $21,795 including destination charge.

    I don't know about you, but $1800 is a significant chunk of change to me.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,618
    I would feel punished if I had to drive a Sebring every day. :sick:
  • tedebeartedebear Posts: 832
    You apparently have not driven the redesigned 07 or 08 Sebring with the 3.5L 6-speed autostick and all the options lately.

    It's a joy to drive. I usually go out during my lunch break just to sit in it and play. I never knew I could drive to Disneyworld from St. Louis without using any freeways until now.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,618
    I am glad you enjoy your car. Personally I don't buy a car to use its electronics to find out that I could drive from St. Louis to Disneyland without using any freeways, but as I've noted before, each of us has his/her own criteria for buying a car. If I had to look at the exterior and interior of the Sebring every day, I would not have a good feeling. A car I own has to be one for which I could live with its looks for a long time. The Sebring isn't one of those cars for me.
  • map out a trip to Wallyworld just like Clark Griswald took in National Lampoon's Vacation. Only you're not gonna be starting from Chicago you'll start from St.Louis. Remember to stop at the Grand Canyon(it really is not to be missed...Clark dissed it in the movie).

    Would the Chrysler Sebring be comfortable all the way to Los Angeles from St.Louis?

    I like the new '08 Bu from Chevrolet, as far as looks go anyways. I was looking at it on the net back at the beginning of this year but was turned off when Chevy announced that they would not sell any with manual tranny's.

    Then I bought a 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS with a CVT automatic anyway! Really, the '08 Bu is a tad big for my tastes. The Lancer GTS is just right for my wife and I.

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    That's the sound of the last almost full-page of posts disappearing. Let me suggest to all participants that if you want to continue to be a part of this conversation that you keep your posts on topic. Posts about other participants are out of bounds period. Posts about minivans, SUVs, manufacturers in general, etc., do not belong here.

    We are here to discuss midsize sedans and that's all.

    Every one of you who has had a post removed just now knows those things so let's stop and think a minute before making an inappropriate post. If you feel like a post is out of line, you have two choices - ignore it or email me and ask me to look at it. Jumping on the poster is not one of your options.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    It won't be, if you consider that you don't get a few things in the Malibu that you do in Accord. You did make a point about 6AT earlier, so why doesn't Accord have an edge on Malibu until that happens? This, besides the fact that you have to move up to LT trim to get stability control. Both are points that you often use to compare "value".

    And we are not talking long term ownership costs here, right?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,618
    Which trim lines of the Accord offer OnStar as standard equipment? Or if not standard, what is the cost of the OnStar option?

    If you require stability control on a car to consider it a good value, how about this:

    Malibu LT I4 AT with moonroof: $21,755
    Accord EX I4 AT (least expensive Accord with a moonroof): $24,495

    Until early next year, the Accord has one more cog in its AT that comes with the I4. But then the Malibu will take the lead there with its 6AT.
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