Midsize Sedans 2.0

goodegg

Why can't an Accord owner/lover state he thinks the Accord is best in its class? Its not like its an outlandish statement.

baggs32

Why can't an Accord owner/lover state he thinks the Accord is best in its class?

It didn't seem to me that he said he "thought" it was best in class but rather stated it as if it were a fact and therefore everyone should see it that way.

The Accord has won praise by many but there are still plenty of people, especially Camry owners, who feel otherwise. Therefore if in fact the Accord is the best in class and everyone should base their "intelligent" decision on that fact then why does the Camry consistently outsell the Accord?

backy

Depends on whether the leases are subsidized and if the dealer throws in additional cash. For example, I can lease a Sonata GLS for $199/month with zero down right now, per local ads. A comparable Accord LX lease is also $199/month, but with about $2000 down.

benderofbows

"Why can't an Accord owner/lover state he thinks the Accord is best in its class? Its not like its an outlandish statement. "

We can, and it certainly is not an outlandish statement at all. However, owners/lovers of competing vehicles tend to get offended by such claims, because they feel that their vehicle is best in class for them, and then feel the need to defend their choice.

We'll never reach a consensus on this board as to what vehicle truly is the one and only best in this class. All we can do is share our opinions, look at facts, and make our own choices. There are so many different aspects to consider, and everything is constantly changing.

Yes, my vote is for the Accord, but I certainly respect other choices (I've had two 626's before which I felt matched the Accords of their day in nearly every way).

I view this discussion as a way to learn things about other cars in this class that you can't find out unless you actually own the car yourself, and I've tried to share such information about the cars I own or have owned.

Please, lets be civil to one another, so we can keep the discussion going.

captain2

Toyota became the world's largest automaker by 1) producing quality cars and 2) correctly evaluating driver preferences where that car is to be sold. In this country, that means a 'soft isolating ride'. If anything I think folks are more likely to buy something that everybody else doesn't have other factors equal. I don't believe the fact that there are so many cars on the road that are identical to what I may have just bought is necessarily a positive influence on sales.

urnews

I view this discussion as a way to learn things about other cars in this class that you can't find out unless you actually own the car yourself, and I've tried to share such information about the cars I own or have owned.

Please, lets be civil to one another, so we can keep the discussion going.

Amen to the civility. I've only owned five "foreign" cars: two VW Beetles (1958 and 1962), a 1977 Mazda GLC, a 1990 Mazda B2000 pickup and a 2000 Mazda Miata (MX-5) convertible. All were decent vehicles.

Bender, how many Accords have you owned? The Fusions come in three varieties, the S, SE and SEL with two engine options, I4 and V6. How many models of the Accord?

This go round the wife got to pick the car (her first choice was a Mustang but that was not practical at this time) and we ended up with a V6 2007 SEL AWD Fusion. I've heard so many good things about an Accord that our next car might be one.

So, what do you like most about your Accord? We like the styling of our Fusion a lot and consider it to be the best looking vehicle in the mid-size car segment with the Accord being second.

lilengineerboy

Toyota became the world's largest automaker by 1) producing quality cars and 2) correctly evaluating driver preferences where that car is to be sold. In this country, that means a 'soft isolating ride'. If anything I think folks are more likely to buy something that everybody else doesn't have other factors equal. I don't believe the fact that there are so many cars on the road that are identical to what I may have just bought is necessarily a positive influence on sales.

Two years ago, a Toyota official was quoted as saying "the number 1 selling flavor of ice cream in America is vanilla."

It made me chuckle a bit, but a very valid point.

zzzoom6

grad, I know what you mean to say, but what you are saying is not what the other guy said. You have acknowledged that subjective interpretation of characteristics and features differ for everyone, so I respect your opinion. But saying that the Accord is "the total package" as the other person wrote implies that it is the best for everyone and beyond improvement. That's just ignorant. It's all good that others have found cars that meet their idea of perfection or satisfaction and that the cars that they chose are different from mine or others. But to suggest that they know what the ideal is for everyone suggests that everyone must be like them or else they are not as perfect as them. So when I use the word "patronizing" I do not do so easily or without cause. In my view, everyone's opinion is fine, but doing so in a condescending manner isn't.

akirby

Why can't an Accord owner/lover state he thinks the Accord is best in its class?

Why can't an Accord owner/lover simply say that they love their Accord for reason X, Y and Z and leave it at that?

Best in Class is meaningless. Best at what? What class? It doesn't yield any beneficial information and only starts arguments.

akirby

If a test showed that the Accord was slower 0-60, had lower residual values and the worst reliability ratings of all the cars in this class - would that change an Accord owner's opinion of their own vehicle? Of course not.

of course it would, and of course it should

Why? If I bought a vehicle and was happy with it why would I care about the other vehicles or where it ranked in testing? It might make me look at other vehicles when it came time to replace it but there is absolutely no reason that an owner's opinion of their vehicle should be changed simply because of some test results or magazine rankings.

If it does then that says the owner cares only about what other people think of them based on the car that he/she drives. Maybe that explains why some of the Accord owners are so defensive when anyone dares to question the Accord's "best in class" status.

pat

If many of us were more generous with using "in my opinion" when making statements about what is "best" and it would be even more helpful if many of us would add "for me" to those kinds of statements.

I know that a lot of people believe that since we are here to discuss opinions in the first place that those kinds of qualifiers are implied and need not be spelled out. I am suggesting that those of you who would like to keep this conversation civil and continuing can help those causes by using those phrases anyway. Isn't it worth a try?

Akirby is right in pointing out that people are never going to agree on what is "best" across the board. It really isn't useful to keep trying to get others to change their opinions. Are you willing to change your opinion based on people saying the same things over and over again here? No? Well neither is the other guy!

captain2

If I bought a vehicle and was happy with it why would I care about the other vehicles or where it ranked in testing
by testing I'm assuming you are really talking about more statistically related things like residual values or reliability numbers and not necessarily a few tenths or a second here or there in an acceleration test. The answer to 'why' is that if those Accords were really a reliability nightmares, those precious residual values suffered and that car started selling for a lot less money than what you paid for it, then it is hitting you right in the pocketbook. Buying a NEW car is an especially risky undertaking in these days of outrageous rebates and discounts simply because most folks are 'upside down' on their car notes as soon as they drive it off the lot. So sure, if that hypothetical bad model year Accord of yours effects me in the same way and I am losing even more money on it every day I keep it, my opinion of that car should change, even if that car is everything that I dreamed it would be.
If it weren't for those 'badge' buyers there would be no market for a whole lot of cars that aren't even in this group and as far as getting defensive about buying an Accord, they don't need to - those same sales, reliability, and residual value statistics provide all the justification needed - it is best in class. Whether you or I agree, objectively or subjectively, is not the point.

baggs32

I don't believe the fact that there are so many cars on the road that are identical to what I may have just bought is necessarily a positive influence on sales.

Sure it is. Family members, neighbors, co-workers, etc. all hand out advice about everything to each other and vehicles are no exception. Word of mouth has been a big factor in Camry and Accord sales IMO. We all like to say that those two sell well based on the reputation that they've earned. Well how do you think word of that reputation gets spread?

baggs32

I know that a lot of people believe that since we are here to discuss opinions in the first place that those kinds of qualifiers are implied and need not be spelled out.

I have to say Pat, I've never seen it that way. We do post a lot of factual evidence so I've always seen it necessary to point out when something was my opinion or someone else's opinion.

Some people do come here for advice on what vehicle is best for them (And then read a post or two and run away FAST!! :P) so it is worthwhile to state a fact as a fact or an opinion as an opinion IMO.

benderofbows

I've mostly owned foreign mid sized sedans.

My first car, in 1996, was a 1991 Mazda 626 DX (stick shift, crank windows, manual locks, cassette deck...) which I got with 100,000 miles. This lasted 40,000 trouble-free miles, until I wrapped it around some trees. I walked away but the car was almost unrecognizable.

My second car was a 1990 Honda Accord EX automatic, which was a fun car, except I ended up wishing for a stick shift. I got that in 1999 with 100k, and for the next 40,000 miles it was the least reliable car I have yet owned. (The first owners hadn't had any trouble in 100k miles, and I later tracked down it's third owner, who drove it until 240,000 miles with minimal problems so I must have fixed everything that needed fixing). No major replacements like engine or transmission, but lots of minor to moderate repairs, and it left me stranded a few times.

My third car was a 1998 Mazda 626 ES-V6 5-speed, purchased in 2001 with 50k. This car was a champ; as reliable as the first 626, but with more power and luxury. I miss this car. I sold it with 100k on the clock, because I was working in sales at a Ford dealership at the time, and being around all of those new cars, I wanted my first brand new one. I sold the 626 with 100,000 miles in 2003 for $5,700. I later contacted the guy who bought it and he said he's had no problems, spinning like a top. Sellers remorse...

The 4th car, my first brand new one, was a 2004 Ford Explorer. This was a tremendous value when new, and a shining example of engineering and vehicle design, however it was constantly plagued by minor issues since day one and I didn't trust it beyond 50K miles (the transmission had been acting up since new, and the rear end had started making noise, both symptoms of major trouble coming down the road). Never did leave me stranded, but was in the shop I think... 9 times? And still, it wasn't 100% right.

And now, the new Accord. I bought it because the driving experience was almost exactly like that of the 1998 626. I wanted a Mazda6, but I saw that CR didn't rate the reliability any better than the Explorer ("average") and I remembered back when I used to take the 1998 626 to the Mazda dealer how the advisor would tell me that my 2.5 V6 and manual transmission was "bulletproof" compared to the other combinations offered and compared to the Mazda6. I was afraid a new Mazda6 wouldn't be able to live up to the experience I had with the old 626's. So I thought I'd give Honda another shot. We'll see how it goes!

I know Fusion is similiar and is rated as more reliable than Mazda6 (for some reason). I drove both the SE 5-speed manual and the SEL V6, but I just liked the Accord better. The 4-cylinder Fusion felt sluggish, and the manual transmission felt like an afterthought. The V6 didn't feel any faster than the Accord 4-cyl 5-speed, and was rated as having lower FE. Plus, I knew I wanted a stick shift. Mainly, the Accord reminded me more of the old 626, than the Fusion did.

baggs32

My first car, in 1996, was a 1991 Mazda 626 DX (stick shift, crank windows, manual locks, cassette deck...) which I got with 100,000 miles. This lasted 40,000 trouble-free miles, until I wrapped it around some trees. I walked away but the car was almost unrecognizable.

Shouldn't you have named yourself "benderoftrees"? :shades:

baggs32

If you care about these things the 2007 initial quality ratings were just released. The midsize sedan category was an eye opener.

jeffyscott

If I had a manumatic, I likely wouldn't use it unless I wanted to hold a gear for climbing/braking in hilly areas. It wouldn't be something I used in daily commuting. It would just be a more convenient version of what I already have (D, D3, 2, 1).

I have that feature in my Mazda6 and that is essentially how I view it. I also think it is better looking version of the alternative, which would have 4-3-2-1 in line after D.

There are also two other potential purposes that I see, one is to manually downshift early when you are planning to pass on a 2 lane road. The other is it allows you to start in 2 in the snow, which is somethng some people like to do...I've never bothered with doing that myself.

I mostly drove manuals in my 30 years of driving, so I sure did not buy an automatic with a manual mode to pretend that I still have one. This feature is nice to have, but would certainly not be a deal-breaker for me.

urnews

So I thought I'd give Honda another shot. We'll see how it goes!

Is it a 2007? I'm surprised that you gave Honda a second chance. The 1990 Accord EX must not have been too awfully bad after all.

What model did you get? What was the MSRP? Our 2007 SEL AWD Fusion had a MSRP of $27,105. We considered the Accord and Camry to be out of our price range even though we didn't talk turkey with the Honda/Toyota dealer (one in the same).

akirby

A perfect example of posting information without passing judgement or making any declarations of superiority.

urnews

Definitely an eye-opener. Impressive scores for Ford and FoMoCo products.

goodegg

as far as getting defensive about buying an Accord, they don't need to - those same sales, reliability, and residual value statistics provide all the justification needed - it is best in class. Whether you or I agree, objectively or subjectively, is not the point.

IN MY OPINION I agree with you. Those that don't agree with us can just ignore it, like the vast majority of posters here are doing. I'm not disparaging others' choice of car.

The Accord isn't some kind of anomoly or quirk. Its a fantastic car even tho its a 5 year old design! How many other 5 year old design cars can say the same?

The 2008 model will surely be a hit - IN MY OPINION. The competition has laid out their wares. Honda will undoubtedly take all these into account for their next offering. I can't wait to check one out.

benderofbows

"I'm surprised that you gave Honda a second chance. The 1990 Accord EX must not have been too awfully bad after all."

Well, remember it went from new to 100,000 miles over 9 years with its original owners with no problems. And then, as I found out later, after I sold it with 140,000 miles the third owner put at around 80,000 or more miles with "minimal problems." Lets see, I'd have to pull the records, but off the top of my head... besides wear items and maintenance... intake manifold clogged (they had to drill holes), igniter failed (all electronics went dead including instruments as I was driving), starter solenoid problems, various electronic accessories failed. So no, not too awfully bad, no "major" repairs but it was the least reliable car I've had (except for the Ford, which is another story all together, but at least most of THAT MESS was under warranty so it doesn't seem so bad. I just had to endure lots of Ford Taurus loaner cars).

I did get a 2007 Accord LX 5-speed, MSRP $20,200? I paid about $17,800 (or $300 under invoice). A completely different animal than your Fusion, which sounds like a very nice car.

backy

Here's a thought on why it's important for some people to feel as if their car is "best in class": if someone pays a significant premium for a car, they probably expect it should be "better" than other cars that cost less. The "more better" their car is, the more value the price premium they paid has. OTOH, if someone buys a car that meets their needs, at a relatively low price, the fact that their car isn't "best in class" is immaterial. They got the car they wanted, at a good price, so that is what's important.

It may also be related to how some people like to buy cars from brands that have more prestige among the general public. That extra prestige has value to them and helps them feel better about owning their car. The more prestige, the better. And "best in class" adds to the prestige of the car.

Then there are those who don't care what the brand is, or even care if they are driving a 20-year-old rustbucket, as long as it gets them where they need to go.

Different strokes for different folks. That's why brands like Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Lexus etc. exist and do well.

akirby

So what would you do if you bought a 08 Accord this fall and then next fall the new for 09 Fusion beats the 08 Accord in every magazine comparison and in all the relevant objective tests (0-60, reliability, skidpad, slalom, braking, etc.)?

Would you rush out and buy a 09 Fusion? Somehow I don't think so. Nor should you unless you're unhappy with the Accord for some reason.

urnews

I did get a 2007 Accord LX 5-speed, MSRP $20,200? I paid about $17,800 (or $300 under invoice).

Sounds like you got a decent deal. I didn't realize Accords started around $20,000. We should have shopped around some more, obviously.

I realize the Taurus was the best-selling car in America for several years running but they never did much for me. Of course the best-selling title now belongs to the Camry and they don't excite me either. Obviously my wife and I dance to the tune of a different drummer when it comes to the automotive world.

Having many choices is a good thing, methinks. When it comes to popularity, I suspect Toyota and Honda will continue to lead the pack for quite some time.

That's not a bad thing. It makes the "other guys" try harder, produce a better product. Competition is good. Ford let the Taurus die on the vine, in my humble opinion.

captain2

Personally, the favorite in the clubhouse is likely the 08 Altima 3.5 but given that highly unlikely Accord/Fusion scenario you present - the 'new' engine for the Fusion is supposed to be another 3.0DT this time at a relatively paltry 240hp and may not make it until 2010 or even 2011, the new Honda V6 which likely will make it under the hood of the 08 should easily be somewhere in the 260-270hp range and be available not only on time but also offer a diesel alternative (less hp more torque and really great FE). The direct answer to your question, is no I probably don't rush out and buy that Fusion even if becomes (from a dynamic perspective) what you think it could, because that imaginary Fusion at least right now has neither the track record of long term reliability nor the history of high residuals that the Accord has maintained for 20 years or so. Do I go out and give it a hard look - sure, but those cars that have statistically proven to be 'better' in those reliability/residual value-cost to own studies will always top my list and after that it generally comes down to power and refinement under the hood, which generally is my true top priority.

akirby

That was a hypothetical situation. I should just said car A and car B. It had nothing to do with the actual cars. I was just trying to understand your motivation relative to ratings and rankings.

Even talking about cars that don't yet exist you have to trumpet the mighty Accord and denigrate the lowly Fusion. That's the type of bias that some of us would like to avoid here.

pat

Well... I see your point, but it's clear that several of us, and it's not just the Toyota/Honda fans, give weight to a make/model based on its history. Keeping in mind that we all are entitled to define our own set of priorities, I really don't think there's fault to be found in that in and of itself.

thegraduate

grad, I know what you mean to say, but what you are saying is not what the other guy said. You have acknowledged that subjective interpretation of characteristics and features differ for everyone, so I respect your opinion. But saying that the Accord is "the total package" as the other person wrote implies that it is the best for everyone and beyond improvement. That's just ignorant. It's all good that others have found cars that meet their idea of perfection or satisfaction and that the cars that they chose are different from mine or others. But to suggest that they know what the ideal is for everyone suggests that everyone must be like them or else they are not as perfect as them. So when I use the word "patronizing" I do not do so easily or without cause. In my view, everyone's opinion is fine, but doing so in a condescending manner isn't.

After reading the continuing posts, I certainly understand what you are saying.

I should have prefaced my post stating my intention of saying the Accord was best for me. Every Honda owner doesn't feel the same way, is basically my point. Every car in this forum has points that would sway some buyers (certain options at a price point, powertrains, styling, etc...). Choosing the best is merely picking which virtues are most important to you, then choosing the vehicle you feel best delivers those virtues.

Just remember, one doesn't speak for everyone , and everyone's comments (mine included) should always be taken with a grain of salt.

urnews

Even talking about cars that don't yet exist you have to trumpet the mighty Accord and denigrate the lowly Fusion.

I recognize the point you are trying to make, Allen, and the sentence is taken out of context, but doesn't the phrase "lowly Fusion" just add fuel to the fire?

I believe our "lowly Fusion" stacks up very well with the mid-size sedan competition. Indeed, when it comes to styling and handling, the Fusion gets extremely high marks in my book.

Let's face it, when it comes to cars, most owners are proud of their decision and eager to defend it. Since there are hundreds of thousands of Camry and Accord owners, the Fusion lovers are always going to be outnumbered and out voted in a popularity contest.

At some point in the future that might not be the case (it wasn't always so) but for now it is.

pat

Good post, thanks.

captain2

not denigrating anything - just a simple statement of what Ford has already announced for the Fusion, if one chooses to believe it. Ford does have a history of 'too little too late' as far as cars go, and is not in a dissimilar position in the car market IMO than Hyundai/Kia, GM, Chrysler etc. And I didn't bring up anything about cars that don't exist yet - that would have been your 'hypothetical' - wasn't it?.
You ask me whether I would even consider a 'hypothetical' new and improved Fusion over a new and improved Accord, I answered the question honestly and even told you why. And this is some sort of 'bias' on my part? or is it simply what you didn't want to hear?
Been on this forum long enough you should have known the answer to your question before you asked it - don't you think? Besides which, we need to get off this thread - pronto!

akirby

The point I was trying to make, but obviously didn't, was that you seemed to base your vehicle preferences on whether a car was highly rated by others (magazines, surveys, etc.) as opposed to whether the vehicle met your requirements or not. I was curious how you would feel if your vehicle that you love today was suddenly not "best in class" anymore (according to the media). Would it make you want to get a new car or not?

Just testing a theory, not trying to start an argument.

jd10013

Here's a thought on why it's important for some people to feel as if their car is "best in class": if someone pays a significant premium for a car, they probably expect it should be "better" than other cars that cost less.

It's not that people want to think their car is the best in its class, they already think its the best car in its class. Thats why they bought it. and then when they come here, or somewhere else, and see other people saying "no, my car is the best", they of course get defensive.

People take a lot of pride in their cars (could never tell from here though :P ) and don't like to be told (essentialy) that they goofed and bought an inferior product.

elroy5

It's not that people want to think their car is the best in its class, they already think its the best car in its class.

Not necessarily true. For instance, I think the Acura TL is a better car than my Accord, but for my own reasons, I didn't buy the TL. No they are not in the same class, but the same thing could happen within the same class. Someone could be shopping within this class, and say I know there are better cars in this class, but I will buy a Chrysler Sebring, because it's the car I like, and will cost much less than the class leader. Some people know they are not driving the "class leader" and are ok with that.

goodegg

Let me throw down the gauntlet and assert the latest JD Power IQ survey that just came out is again, IMO, a bunch of useless mish mash - even tho my perennial favorites ranked high on that list.

But other makes that didn't rank that good I highly regard (BMW, Audi, Cadillac, Mazda). There seems to be no rhyme or reason to the "list".

With a few mulligans, you could probably invert the list and have it make as much sense.

bhmr59

I keep my cars for at least 7 years. Some time ago, someone posted that Sonata's value would "kill" you if the car were totaled when it was only a couple of years old.

That's not what kbb.com says about my Sonata at 14-15K miles. Retail $14,590, Private party "good condition" $11,460 & trade-in "good condition" $9310. And that's for the GLS, not the GLS "Special Value" which is essentially an LX except for leather and power driver seat.

I paid $16,705 including doc fee, before TTL. (The doc fee was listed as a ridiculous $479, but it was built into the price so I didn't care.)

Under CT law, an insurance company must pay the average of NADA retail ($12,700) and one of a few other "recognized" sources when a car is "totaled" in a collision or "other than collision" loss. So, If my car had been totaled yesterday I would received an insurance payment of $13,630 (less any deductible, unless someone else was at fault in an accident).

That doesn't seem like a big depreciation hit to me for two years, only 19%.

I think, and thought at the time, that Hyundai's improvements would show up in it's used car value within a couple years. Seems that that is happening. We'll see what happens in the next couple of years.

elroy5

JD Power IQ is just a way to give awards to cars that would otherwise not win any. ANY car can have a problem or two. What's more important is whether or not the problem is fixed, or becomes something you just have to live with, as long as you own the car. Long term reliability is what I want, since I want to drive it for a long term (10 years or more). Obviously the more extra features or gadgets a car has, the more potential problems it could have. How many problems will the car have, after the warranty runs out? Do a survey on that, JD.

thegraduate

What year is your Sonata, again?
Thanks!

backy

Maybe that is the problem... so many people think their car is the "best" in its class. Well, maybe it is... for them, for their needs. That's why I bought an Elantra in the fall of 2000. It was not the "best in class" in the opinion of most people (although I think Edmunds.com made it one of their "Most Wanted" cars a bit later), but it was the best fit for my needs at the time. I actually liked it better than any other car in its class, and the fact that it was one of the least expensive cars in its class was a bonus. Currently, one of the cars I'm eyeing closely for my next new car is the Optima. I don't think it's ranked "best in class" by any professional reviewers. But then, they aren't putting up the money for my next car.

backy

Useless? I think that's pretty strong. I see some value in the study, if only to show what general direction automakers are heading on quality. For example, I find it very interesting that after many years of bottom-feeding in this study, brands like Porsche and now Mercedes-Benz and Kia are making huge strides in initial quality. I also find it interesting that some brands, like Lexus and Honda, have found a way to maintain their positions in initial quality, while brands like Toyota and Hyundai are backsliding a bit. And Ford is making impressive gains, as noted. The other interesting trend I see is a general increase overall in initial quality over the years. That is a positive trend for all of us.

joe97

Agreed. Most makers are getting better and better which is great news for us consumers!! Even Land Rover, which had the largest improvement - highest decrease in number of problems from last year, though it still finished in last place :P

Hyundai did too well last year by finishing in third

Kia's was impressive - went from 24 to 12

Porsche continues to retain the top spot!!

akirby

JD Power IQ is just a way to give awards to cars that would otherwise not win any.

Why? Just because Ford came out on top?

How many problems will the car have, after the warranty runs out? Do a survey on that, JD.

They do.

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2006133

And Mercury is number two. I guess that makes it a flawed survey, too.

targettuning

"Take it the way you want but many, many people have the same opinion as me. And the 2008 Accord will be even better. You can bank on Honda for that. They just have to watch their pricing. They can still get their 'premium'. The market will support it."
Oh I don't know. I bought a 2006 Civic which was totally redesigned that year and it has NOT been "even better". I have had quite a few un-Honda like issues so apparently you cannot automatically "bank" on Honda for that.

bhmr59

2005. That was the only year of the "special value" sub-trim.

goodegg

Useless? I think that's pretty strong.

OK. I'll modify 'useless' to insignificant.

I mean c'mon. If it wasn't for Landrover, Mazda would be dead last.

mz6greyghost

I mean c'mon. If it wasn't for Landrover, Mazda would be dead last.

Not according to this article.

benderofbows

Disclaimer: the following post encompasses issues of quality and reliability rankings as related to midsize sedans only. (This is on-topic, I swear!)

I don't give as much weight to JD Power as I do to Consumer Reports, because they report "problems per 100 vehicles." While this is useful data, I don't think enough weight is given to the severity of a particular problem. For instance, if midsize sedan "A" has 10 radio knobs fall off per 100 vehicles, and midsize sedan "B" has 5 transmissions fall out per 100 vehicles, sedan "B" appears to be of higher quality because it had less problems per 100 vehicles, even though the problems it did have were much more severe.

Consumer Reports breaks the problems down further, so you can see the reliablilty rating for each car by categories such as Engine, Transmission, Body, Accesories, etc.

I also don't place too much weight on "Initital Quality" surveys. They are a good indication that the vehicle will be reliable in the long run but that is not always the case. Vehicles which score well in initial quality can start to display major problems as they age, while vehicles that did not score well in initial quality can maintain reliability over the long term. Actual long-term reliability studies are much more valuable in my opinion.

jeffyscott

I didn't realize Accords started around $20,000. We should have shopped around some more, obviously.

Accord VP would be even less than that LX. But, his car is not at all comparable to your version of the Fusion. A comparably equipped, 4 cyl manual transmission Fusion, would cost less than the Accord and much less than your Fusion.

Since I have recently bought one, I know more about pricing of Mazda6 than the Fusion. A dealer near me had recently advertised Mazda6i SVE, with manual for $14K. That is better equipped than the Accord LX, more comparable to the Accord SE (which is priced $700 above LX). I paid $16K for that car with automatic (which adds at least $800). So this is evidence of a $2500-4500 premium for an Accord over the 6. I don't know if Ford is giving as good of deals on the Fusion as Mazda is on the 6.